I see a dark haired child, lying in a small dark blue velvet lined box, curled up as if asleep, but I am told that he is dead. He is carried past me from left to right.

I see another adult sized body - I presume it is dead as it is completely wrapped in a white shroud.

I find myself in the entrance of a catholic or church of Englsn church, looking outside through the big open doors. Someone tells me that I do not belong there as I am not a Christian. They gesture across the road, which appears to look like a small town square - i.e. no traffic/pedestranised, but no other people around. I am not aware of the gender of the person who tells me this.

I look across the road and there is a synagogue on the other side of the road, but I do not feel that I belong there either.

I walk down a couple of steps from the christian church. In front of me is a huge round table like structure, made from 2 shades of grey stone. The outer circle is the darker, shiny stone - like polished granite and the inner stone is a lighter grey in a matte finish and it is this part that is inscribed. It is approx dining table height and about 10-12 feet in diameter. I sit down and lean on it. It gives me the impression that it may be a giant sundial, but I am not sure. It is inscribed, but not in English, but in another orthography/language, maybe symbols.

Then I am told that my brother is dead (my brother is alive in waking life - he will be 39 on 21 August). I am inconsolable. I see my mother (she died in 1999). I hug her and I am crying, but at the same time I am trying to console my mother, whom I notice does not appear to console me or react - just allows me to hug her.

The other strange thing is that she is wearing red, a colour she never wore in waking life, as she preferred green and turqoise and it suited her - she had green eyes. I am trying to console my mother telling her that I know what it feels like to lose someone you love. In the dream, I am aware that somehow that this is not 'right' as I know that my mother is dead, so why I should be embracing her as if she were alive is strange, and could explain her passivity in the dream.

I woke up during this dream - with a temperature and feeling utterly bereft.

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sounds as if you feel like you don't belong anywhere. Also, it seems as if you can't decide whether you want to follow a universal code of living, or some more exclusive set of beliefs.

There is so much death in this dream. Are things changing for you?

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Yes, things are changing.

Also remembered the beginning of the dream.
Walking down a crowded street, looks like a small town/village with honey coloured stone in somewhere like Spain. I am holding a childs hand. There is also another adult who I think is with us. We look behind us and in the distance there is what looks like a herd of cattle/animals coming towards us - stampeding, the dust billowing up around them. There is a sense of fear and people start ro run. I feel myself lose grip of the childs hand and lose him/her in the crowd, to my right somewhere - at the edge of the street. Ithen feel myself pulled with force from the crowd by a male and then we are both riding an animal (one each) down the road in the same direction as that which we were walking. Riding fast at the side of the street. Not sure of the animals that we are riding but do not strike me as being horses.

The stampeding animals pass us by safely as we are at the edge/side of the street. Then the dream about death etc starts.

Just after I typed this out, it all made sense, although I have not yet figured out the giant table/monument stone structure.

A person I know is leaving the country - we are very close and to me, he provides a haven/sanctuary (incidentally, he also happens to be a Catholic).

I come from a mixed background English/Arab/Jewish, but I am an atheist. My psychopathic ex is Jewish(non practising, but heavy on the bigotry). It would appear to me that I am to leave the 'haven' and across the square of the town lies my enemy - I certainly do not belong with him/his ideology.

The dead bodies? Of events passing/having no more life in them? Change is afoot, but I am weary, as I sit briefly to lean on the table in the dream. It gives the impression of symbols/sundial/memorial - maybe just indicating the passing of time or that tomorrow is another day, but that day weighs heavy upon me in the dream. Still not sure about this bit of my dream- maybe it is just an impediment, that, with time, will lift.

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And yes, one could say that I was considering a more 'unorthodox' approach to a persistent dilemma in my lfe, an impediment that was created and has been sustained by my ex. He is the toxic perma-cloud on my sunny day and no amount of 'positive' this, that or the other on my part does anything to remedy the situation.

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able that seems to be like a sundial could be a yearning to go back to a simpler state of being, or it could mean that you need to modernize something.

sorry i don't have the time to go through it thouroughly. but i am doing my best considering my constraints. I wish I had more time.

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Yes, a more simple state of being would be most welcome.

I have always been adept at overhauling/renewing/maintaining my life, but I have noted that it has remained in stasis for the past 3 1/2 years - as a result of the ex and the legal constraints and abuse imposed by him upon my child and me.

The sundial structure also reminded me of a mill stone,as it is a round block of stone of similar proportions. 'A mill stone around ones neck' is a term often applied to a thing/person that has become a heavy burden.

The sundial/millstone would appear to be the part of the dream that I have yet to figure out. It appears to represent time/weight/an impediment/something legal - set in stone?/ something that separates me from what I want, yet something which I must overcome in order to attain that which my son and I require.

The cool smoothness of the grey stone and the lightly engraved symbols (which I cannot recall, but were reminiscent of ancient middle eastern mystical symbols) appear to have resonance, but I have no idea why.

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the gray, circular, millstone could also be the lifeless depressing vicious cycle you are in.

The sun dial is also an instrument used to gauge the part of the day. Your faculties to gauge yourself, although depressed and in a vicious cycle, may be telling you something. Maybe it has something to do with looking forward to a brighter day? But, because you could not read or remember the writings, it may mean that you don't have a clue about how to go about obtaining a better way, but you still have your own type of faith in you and in life. So, although you don't fit into any of the major religions, you still have a faith based aspect of your life that keeps you going: a belief in yourself.

good luck.

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Thanks Carlos

Yes, I believe you are correct.

I do believe in myself and I always have. My 'faith' lies in my tenacity, being kind/empathic to others,being dynamic/proactive, ability to flex without breaking and in viewing situations from multiple persepectives.

Passively sitting and 'hoping' is not my style. One only achieves change by actually doing something (obviously not without mental/spiritual consideration, as to act without thought is not a great idea).

I do not believe that what 'goes around comes around', nor do I believe that 'the truth will out in the end'. There are mumerous good people who have died untimely, horrible deaths (what came around did not go around for them) and there are numerous psychhopaths/malevolent types who get away with abusing others and live long healthy lives. To sit passively and believe that someone else/something else is going to resolve yours/others problems is not a good idea. It also removes the culpability of the individual.

Complicity, complacency and cowardice are common traits and the people who possess them, attempt to justify them via the 'what comes around goes around' delusion or something similar to it.

'No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible' Voltaire.

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The gray stone, is a symbol of something from deep within you, that is extending out into your life. since it hand been turned into a round object, you can assume that external forces have acted on it. The events you mentioned may be stirring up disappointment and frustration that is tying into something deeper within you and crystalizing as a hardened attitude, that is laced with the hardness of life attitude you are developing as you go through this process with your ex.

The sun can be viewed as reason, sometimes as an animus, and this may be the way out of the vicious circle and its profound effects on your psyche. Of course, this may not change the external events occuring, but it will change how they effect you.
Treat yourself kindly. take time to relax and find that point in life that moves you be in touch with your humanity and its good qualities. Wipe out all negative aspects that you are aware of. Fear, anger , hatred, revenge, will all serve to move you to a negative state of existence, and keep you in a negative state of existence.

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by the way, the sun in your dream can be a play on words as well as all mentioned before. The sun could be your "son"

YOur son could trying to effect that hardness developing, or your love for him could be effecting the gray cold stone and the vicious circle.

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Thanks Carlos.

The 'sundial' or whatever it was, had no sun on it or around it, it just appeared to be the impression I had of it. It appeared to be a 'no weather' type of day. It was daytime, not night and all around was still.

As you state the homophones of sun/son may have some resonance. My love for my son, is the instrument by which my ex tortures us both.

The synagogue does represent my ex - the enemy - the impediment to my sons and my happiness. I guess the current situation is literally 'set in stone' legally, but that does not mean that it has to remain that way.

The recurrent death theme is odd as I wouldhave thought that just one 'death' image would have been sufficient to indicate change/regeneration.

I consulted some dream books in the bookshop at the weekend and only one had a meaning for sundial - portends a marriage and a death. Not terribly analytical stuff, if you ask me! Another book had the synagogue as the machinations of my enemies who were deliberately impeding my happiness/progress. Again - strange interpretation. It also stated that if I climbed to the top of the synagogue successfully in the dream, then I would conquer the problem.

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S,
In addition to Carlos’ great interpretations and your own deep insights the following may be of use. I also read your other posts and recall some of your prior posts. The dream could offer guidance regarding an intensity of emotion that may affect a decision you now consider or have recently made.

I simply listed my notes on individual symbols rather than interpret. The overall theme (from this take on the symbols) could be fervor both in feelings of great warmth and intensity and the state of being emotionally aroused and worked up, and that this may be dominant in a decision. Perhaps you now consider something you previously would not as it violates your established code of virtue and honesty.


Walking street holding childs hand = dominance
Child = therapy
Herd of animals = reformation/regurgitate
Losing the child = development
Pulled by force from crowd by male = preparation
Riding the animals in the same direction = lengthy intent consideration; regurgitate
Safe from stampeding animals = becoming apparent or visible, gradual beginning

Dead dark haired child = taking to self to exclusion of all others; setting apart; appropriation
Dark blue velvet lined box = benefit
Dead adult = morale
White death shroud = elimination

Entrance of church looking out doors = heritage
Do not belong there not Christian = escape
Small town square = making it more stable
Synagogue = restoring vitality and respect [re-ju-venate (venerate)]
Does not belong at synagogue = respect
Walk down couple of steps = make use of/exploit

Entire table structure = persuasion
Sundial like object= defiance
Circle around sundial = complete confirmed integrity/honesty
Inscription = honoring a memory
Dead brother = reformulate or redevelop
Mother = honoring a memory (again…)
Mother wearing red = compensating for loss or injury
Console = conviction/unshakable belief

Look forward to your thoughts.

Kind regards,
Kathy

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Hi Kath

Wow, what a list!

I don't think it is as complex as this.

The stmpede is a feeling of being under pressure - almost like a stalked animal.

My child was taken away from me and the Catholic male figure who pulls me to the side is my friend who has provided a sanctuary/haven of sorts. I say of sorts, as my sons and my life has been a living hell because of what is happening to him.

That 'sanctuary' is due to come to an end and across the street I see the edifice/the enemy that prevents my happiness.

In the middle is a big stone 'thing' which at fisrt is reminiscent of a sun dial, with indecipherable engraved writing. It also resembles a millstone.

The legal situation is 'set in stone' - its content makes no sense/is illegal, immoral and like an Alice in Wonderland film (yes, really - you have to experience the corruption of this system to know its irrationality/illegality). The situation is tiring, as I sit down at this stone thing and lean on it as I feel so weary. It is a millstone around my neck.

As for all of the death in the dream:
- The white shrouded figure may be my friend - our association is at an end - it has passed/is passing away.

- My mother/my brother - being denied justice - being denied the right to be a mother, inconsolable, yet frozen with grief.

- the child could represent the innocent/pure part of me that is forced to live with this vileness or it could represent my child, who is, in real life, threatening suicide if I do not run away with him.

It is my son who is obsessed with death. Everything is death, death, death. I have seen him holding his eyelids shut in the car and when asked what he is doing, he answers that he was wondering what it is like to be dead. Then he goes quiet and out of nowhere starts threatening to throw himself out of the car as nobody cares about him, no-one and no-one would care if he was dead as no-one would miss him. At 7 years old. At 7 years old I never considered death - only life and expansion.

He has told me that he wonders what it would be like to be buried alive, everything in life, to him, provides a 'risk' of death/accident. This is not the intrepid, happy , yet serene child that lived with me.

At least I climb trees with him, go swimming, running, playing in the fields with him. This lifts his spirits, but only temporarily.

He does,however remember the good times when he lived with me, quite vividly, and viewed our flat as a haven (it also had a flat roof) - he asks me if we can live there together again or maybe 'run away to the jungle and live in a tree house, because you are a Ninja Mummy and you know all about food and plants and things'. What happened to the light and laughter in our lives?His father has done all he can to extinguish it. Every good deed I do is deliberately sabotaged by him, its effect on my son negated. He abuses him for being loved by me.

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sorry to hear all this stuff. I myself went through an acrimonious child custody battle. But, I have to admit it was not as horrific as yours. There were no sexual allegations in it. So, I can understand to many degrees your pain as you see your child in a predicament that you feel powerless to stop and the legal authorities do not believe you and are thus useless.

I remember being part of non-custodial parent organizations trying to cope with this, and they were of no help because they put you in tune with how powerless you really are against the vultures and vipers in the court system.

The stone, I think, does represent your son as his relation with you is being regulated, and a large part of that regulation is how much time you can be with him. It may also symbolize the court system which is regulating your relationship, your time, and is writing in a stone the terms of this regulation.

The holding on to your mom is you trying to hold on to your matriarchy, and maternal feelings although they may feel as if they are taken away from you, or they have in essence met a de facto death as the laws have regulated them to this end.
The red dress is passion not of a sexual nature but of a deep and brilliant feeling you have for this maternal relation with yourself and your son.

All of the death in the dream represents aspects of you dying. they are all male and may be a feeling of resentment toward male favoritism that is could be causing some resentment to the male point of view regardless of where it comes from.

My daughter spoke as your son spoke in the past. I taught her about relaxation, and meditation in order that she can better cope with the situation. I also, was forced, by the laws, to tolerate the circumstances but I waited as I knew the truth could not be hidden from my daughter forever. She now chooses to spend more time with me (months at a time and her mom fears doing anything about it because if she takes it to court my daughter will say she prefers to be with me), and rejects her mom's obsession to do harm to me, and inadvertently to her too. There is a great deal of satisfaction in knowing I do not need a multi-billion dollar court system, to facilitate a good relation with my daughter and win her effections. But, like you, I would rather have had the custody, and not have to correct all the negative influences from the other parent.

I know there is little I can say to make you feel better, or tolerate what you believe is occuring, nor would I attempt to console you on that issue, for I don't know what I would do under those circumstances. But, know that your child will come to you on his own sooner or later especially under the circumstances you detailed; just be warm, loving, and calm and he will need to come to you.

in the meantime, you will spend a great deal of time suffering and hurting. You need to realize this and seek ways to survive and not allow strong emotions like hate, anger, revenge and bloodlust to find fertile ground in your being.

I am sorry I can't help you.

Take care.

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Thanks Carlos.

Unfortunately, it is now becoming the 'norm' for genuine mothers with real, founded concerns about their ex's to lose custody in a trice. Over 200 women were imprisoned in the UK last year, witout trial, for 'inhibiting' or preventing or just opining negatively with regard to contact between the ex and the child.

Its a one size fits all process and cases are not examined, history of DV/police records not heeded. I know that some women can be difficult about contact, but a social worker told me to 'run' as did a barrister as they knew that the legal system was completely loopy.

The secrecy of the family courts ensures that the public know nothing of these cases and so one remains ignorant, until one is on the receiving end of continued psychopathic threats and violence from an ex, who then extends this to the child and before you know it, you are caught up in a vortex of lies and misogyny, no thanks to the legal infrastructure.

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well, the problem with the courts is that it is impossible to know the best interest of the child by meeting the adversaries for a few minutes; yet they try.

To do the job right would cost too much money for them, and they are not interested in doing that. they really have no business adjudicating over ex-families as long as they do that. They also politicize issues along gender lines and fail miserably in doing what is right.

In the USA women are given custody most of the time. I think over 90% of the non-custodial parents are women, 5% are grandparents, and less that 5% are the male parent.
Of the few men that have custody many are judges, lawyers, politicians. THe other men that have custody have the misfortune of having exes that don't want their kids, for whatever reason; or the mothers are physically abusive to the children; or they are drug and alcohol abusers; or the mom's are dead.

While I do wish to see a fairer system, I don't wish that children be hurt.

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S,
Thank you for responding. It’s evident you apply much thought and possess deep insight into your dreams. The ongoing situation you describe would be the greatest of trials for any person to undergo.

The symbol definitions in my post attempt…probably incorrectly…to go beyond conscious (visible) association to unconscious (invisible) association. Moral excellence is an admirable quality. The decision referenced in the post was not firm or final yet the act of assembling and putting into readiness in case of emergency would be apparent in the dream along that line of interpretation.

Oskar Schindler’s dedication to his moral code resulted in the saving of over 1,000 lives during WWII at substantial cost to his person.

From Wikipedia – Oskar Schindler

“No one really knows what Schindler's motives were. However, he was quoted as saying "I knew the people who worked for me... When you know people, you have to behave toward them like human beings."

From the writer Herbert Steinhouse, who interviewed Schindler in 1948:

“ Oskar Schindler's exceptional deeds stemmed from just that elementary sense of decency and humanity that our sophisticated age seldom sincerely believes in. A repentant opportunist saw the light and rebelled against the sadism and vile criminality all around him. The inference may be disappointingly simple, especially for all amateur psychoanalysts who would prefer the deeper and more mysterious motive that may, it is true, still lie unprobed and unappreciated. But an hour with Oskar Schindler encourages belief in the simple answer.”

My sincerest wish for peace in union for you both.

Kind regards,
Kathy

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kathy,

Yes, it is acts like those of Mr. Schindler that can make life worthwhile even against great earthly evil such as the Nazis. I admire greatly people like him, and Ghandi; and the philosophies of figures like Jesus, and Buddha (prophets of internal peace).

Jung also moved along those lines as he saw the horrors of Nazism and the cold war, open paths through the personal shadow, to the collective shadow.

Family court brings a parent to a point where one is well in touch with, fear, anger, and hatred, in an intimate and passionate way.

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Kathy and Carlos

Thank you very much for your insight.

With regard to custody cases - most women do not 'win' custody - they retain it. 90% of custody remains 'retained' by women i.e. not challenged or sought by men. Of the remaining 10% of cases contested in the courts in the UK - 50% is 'won' by men and this figure is increasing. Remember - it is only the conflicting cases that reach court, many families split and arrange things privately.

Unfortunately, the cases that have abusive men involved (and not just abusive as a result of a relationship breakdown, but more likely they are the cause of the breakdown) more often than not DO provide a risk to the children. Physical and sexual violence spring from the same place - a sense of entitlement by the abuser and this extends to the children.

Carlos is correct with regard to the legal system treatment of such delicate things as childrens lives. I did not block contact - I genuinely thought 'how can anyone fail to love my child?' and stupidly allowed my ex to see him, even though I left my ex during early pregnancy. Allowing him back into our lives was a huge mistake. He took this opportunity to incesssantly (i.e. daily) abuse us directly or via 3rd parties - official and unofficial. It was incessant, severe, psychopathic and the courts/health visitors, social workers and police do nothing to help women such as myself in such cases. You have to be dead before they sit up and take notice.

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Glad to see that you still have your head on straight. I know its difficult when dealing with these issues. And yes, you are right, most cases women retain custody.

The courts are not equipt to deal with broken-family custody issues. The whole philosophy of the court gives rise to the personal shadow in an individual. All Judeo-christian legal systems are adversarial systems; hence, some adversity must occur. For this reason, if a person wants custody, he/she must create an adversarial relationship to be get what they want from court. If that doesn't exist then the system will not benefit you.
Example:
If you go to court and say my child's custodail parent iis a great parent, yet I want custody becaus e I feel I would be better and have more to offer, you will not get custody.
By dint of the parameters set by the court for custody to occur, one must attack the custodial parent's character and ability to care for the child. This is why custody battles are ripe ground for the battle of the sexes.

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