www.powerofdreams.net

mythsdreamssymbols.com
DREAM FORUM


On Line Since 2005
NOTICE: Age/Gender REQUIRED. Follow-up Response to Analysis Requested
My Services are FREE. For Compensation a Response to the Analysis is Requested

By submitting your dream you have read and agree to Our Disclaimer/Privacy Policy

Jungian Based [ GO ]
FREE Dream Analysis/Interpretation by Dream Analyst Gerald Gifford
Read: Concepts I Use in Analyzing Dreams,,,,,primarily Jungian
5000+ Dreams

Interpreted
Gerald's GO
Cat Rescue Fund
,
Power of Dreams/MDS Dream Forum
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
animal archetypes

i have had in the past various meetings in dreams with a huge primordial cave bear,which has had my attention for a while,
wanting to give me its power ,
the last dream i had with the bear,seemed to suggest it was going into hibernation,
i wanted to mention this latest bear dream as it had a striking resemblance in content to gandalf the wizard going into death as the grey,returning as the white,

the dream,
on the sea shore in a sandy bay,
it is 5am in the morning and i am waiting for dawn to break,i am preparing for a kayak journey out into the bay,and being told the tide is about to turn,

the scene changes and i am aboard a small ship anchored in the same bay,
another vessel approaches,and anchors up right beside me,
the skipper points to his deck,
he is showing me a huge dead looking grey polar bear,
he found it floating in the sea , having drifted all the way from tibet,
i climb aboard his vessel,the bear is not dead,
and wakes up ,it has now turned white as a polar bear should be,
because it has just woken up,it is very hungry,and wants to eat me,
knowing that the cabin doors would be smashed like match wood by its power, no use in trying to avoid it by hiding,i try to keep some space between us,

this to me is progress of sorts,as in the past i have been trying to keep the bear out,building barriers,locking doors etc,


as always thoughts and comments gratefully recieved,regards cave bear

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 53-uk

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? y

Re: animal archetypes

you may have an old notion, or emotion creeping back into your life. It may be feeling alone, anger, fear of living bare bones or even the act of swaying from one emotional extreme to another.

You may be trying to achieve your goal too quickly and are tempted to skip steps rather than allow a gradual process to change your being. This causes a false sense of security and brings back to life the older and dangerous emotions that tend to dominate you which you are trying to avoid realizing.

Yes, the ending was good as you seem to be trying to tame the untamed part of your nature.

bears can also represent overBEARing parents in your past. So there could possibly be many meanings to the bear in your dream.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Re: Re: animal archetypes

carlos ,
thanks for your wisdom of the dream,
it hasn't gone un-noticed as you have mentioned on the past 2 posts of mine,,the recurring theme of, as you call it,trying to achieve my goal to early,
the lighthouse,the afghan on the bus,
this is a mystery that i am still trying to solve,
i am not sure what my goal actually is ,if i have one at all,
no doubt future dreams will cast light,
regards cavebear

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 53-uk

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? y

Re: animal archetypes

I think your goal is to awaken and be self aware so that you can venture out into the world and feel comfortable in your own skin. You also want to deal with solitude and its effects on you: kayaking alone, a bear attack can also be a pun on bare attack.

what occurs to you after you go out kayaking alone, and just as the bear comes upon you is where you either phase to another scene or wake up.

deal with solitude, or maybe some condition or environment you can't escape.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Re: Re: animal archetypes

thanks carlos,
the enviroment i can't escape from theme ,you mentioned, caught my attention,
i will delve into this,
thanks cavebear,

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 53-uk

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? y

Re: Re: Re: animal archetypes

have just been reading on mds,the stages of the individuation process,
something that reflects the unconscious bear in this dream,seems to fit the individuation process under the section of self,
namely the unconscious has to be kept at arms length with the realization it cannot be controlled or tamed,
this takes me back to my oroginal thoughts on the bear waking up as ,the wise old man,a mana personality,great power,which if allowed to overwhealm the conscious ego would result in meglamania,identifying with the power,
or retreat,signifying a loss of conscious ego identity,
this i am familiar with in my reasearch into shamanistic symbolism and this loss of identity if only temporary is a motif common to shamanistic initiation,
i think it was joseph campbell that stated in his,
the way of the animal powers,that most of us get to peer into the unconscious abyss,a shaman is someone who has fallen in,
and climbs back out,
i feel now that this is the area the dream relates to,
nobody is as blind as he who will not see.
cavebear

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 53-uk

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? y

Re: animal archetypes

cave,
i think there is truth to the above, but I don't know if you are a borderline megalomaniac. The dream may be a warning about a slightly less dramatic condition. Something very human. the reason I say this is because you know better than to be consumed by the bear in your dream. This is conscious and subconscious knowledge within you. What you seem to have is a furious and strong emotion breaking against your better faculties: the bear trying to eat you. What is this thing disturbing your balance? Is it fear of loneliness? Is it frustration from not being able to escape some situation? Is it hubris, in that you skip steps and venture forth not yet ready?


Maybe you are only a micromaniac :).

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Re: Re: animal archetypes

hi carlos,
i probably come under the heading, someone who has fallen in,
so that makes me just a ordinary humble maniac,
looking through the tiny gap in the fence, at that something bigger beyond,
just trying to stay balanced ,thats all i think it is,


regards cavebear

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 53-uk

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? y

Re: animal archetypes

quote from, http://mythsdreamssymbols.com/individuation.html

Archetypes and the Individuation Process

According to Jung, one must get in touch with the Shadow and Anima/Animus before one can truly get in touch with the Self. The order is sequential, and as tempting as it may be to try and skip the Shadow or deal only superficially with it, it is here that we begin.
Jung referred to this initial step as "the First Act of Courage". And the first thing that is necessary in coming to terms with one's own shadow is simply to acknowledge that it exists. It sounds obvious, but there are those for whom the thought of actually having a darker side to their nature is extremely uncomfortable. Yet this is one of the primary reasons for undertaking the 'Shadow work' in the first place, since that which we have yet disavow in ourselves will be projected outwards

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Re: Re: animal archetypes

carlos
thanks for the quote,
if the bear is a ref to the shadow aspect then fine i understand this,
i also feel that shaddow content has too much of a negative label to it,
not only do we repress that which we don't like about ourselves and would sooner forget,but i believe we also repress that which is positive aswell,
based on what the system,cultural , religious and educational views dictate at the time,
if the bear is a ref to the unconscious content, then i have to understand if it is a positive or a negative aspect,
if it is a ref to a real life person who i need to confront as they are impeeding my freedom,(i can think of one),then this to, i need to understand.
i will get there.
regards cavebear

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 53-uk

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? y

Re: Re: Re: animal archetypes

Well, there is a gray area created by culture that bring aspects of ourselves into the shadow, but they are gray areas. But some things aren't gray, they are black and white. If a the urge of emotion does harm to you or those around you, then it is not just a cultural thing creating this shadow: it is truly a shadow.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Re: Re: Re: Re: animal archetypes

carlos, great chatting with you,
all my associations with the appearance or re-appearance of this bear have been about gandalf the wizard from lord of the rings,
he was gandalf the grey,he appeared to have died fighting his own demon the belroc in an underworld very similar to tibet,he came back as gandalf the white,the most powerful of all wizards,he even said ,i return to you now at the turning of the tide,
sounds familiar,
what i see is a pattern about to repeat itself,this time on a more powerful level,relating possibly to the wise old man archetype in some way,
this re-appearance (coming into consciousness)is obviously going to upset the equilibrium of the rational mind,
this sounds a lot like the tower tarot card symbolism again,in as much, the safe anchorage i find myself in,is about to be hit by a storm,
i shall have to do a ulysses and strap myself to the mast.
if it is indeed something i need to face and accept having been repressed ,then it can only be the wisdom of the unconscious,
now that is something, i have denied for to long.
if anything develops i will post,
cavebear.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 53-uk

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? y

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: animal archetypes

thank you Steve, it is likewise great chatting with you too.

Gandalf died fighting what in Jungian psychology would be considered a shadow figure. It was a huge demon-like creature with a whip. And, Galdalf died selflessly so that others may live, and for the good of mankind. the ring was the issue, and Frodo needed to make his hero's journey along with Gandalf and the rest of the fellowship of the ring. Gandalf SLAYED the creature and because of that became the WHITE wizard. He slayed evil.
This, above, is a dream externalized: it is of mythic proportion.
what you experienced is a myth internalized: a dream.

You are being attacked by a shadow creature and must find a way, in your waking life, to overcome it. There is the beauty of dream interpreting and its relation to life. Seemingly banal, yet profound and pungent battles within the person, become fantastic imagery communicating to us the very essence of our being and what we must overcome today to achieve mastery and knowledge of the self and bringing us closer to becoming that universal, and eternal hero that lives in myth and in our mind for all time. The saviour is revealed by his action, his overcoming himself, and making the world better.


the skipper is the trickster mocking you. It shows a seemingly dead bear, and he even calls himself the skipper: your self admitted flaw. and what occurs? The bear attacks you again for the umpteenth time and you fall for it.

The question that the trickster is mockingly asking is, when will you take care of this issue, and stop Skipping over it?


The movie scene, and the dream, needless to say, fall under the hero motif of Joseph Campbell.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: animal archetypes

carlos,
great stuff,
while i see that i must confront and take on my own inner demon,after all the belroc looked a lot like the devil especially cracking the whip,,identifying what the skipping over bits is ,requires further study,
i can only think that if the allusion is to the beloc/inner demon,this may represent my negativity,which always seems to pop up when there is a hint of progress,
i also feel that the closer you get to the cave,
the more you become aware of the dragons presence
as i was once told by a friend,
only when the sun shines do you get a shaddow.
cavebear.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 53-uk

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? y

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: animal archetypes

well, the movie echoes the dragon thing that was told to you in that the creature, became a dragon as galdalf fought him in the cave inside the cave. Remember thay were running away from it; hey had trouble gettting over bridges that were crumbling beneath their feet; the creature grabbed gandalf with the whip and they fell into a seemingly endless abyss within the cave. In there the creature became a dragon, and they fought.

A dragon in the dreams of a person from the western culture is the base emotions and urges, the brain stem taking flight into the conscious world and flying through the the conscious mind. It means there is a threat that you could be owned by your brain stem, or the base urges.

I think what you are skipping is overcoming the bear. that is what the skipper point to. YOu are the hero in your dream, and the bear is the threat. It is a wild, mindkless animal, threatening to consume you. you are the hero, and must overcome this. Can't skip over it, must bring those out of control emotions into order.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: animal archetypes

carlos,
many thanks for your thoughts once again,
if the bear represents ,emotions that are out of control,then yes you are right they must be confronted
and dealt with,
i have looked back over my dream files searching for refs to the bear, in a hope of finding some sort of developing pattern,
i haven't found anything that would suggest emotions out of control,and i certainly don't feel that i am in a state of emotional turmoil,unless middle age has pulled the wool over my eyes,

perhaps the bear represents middle earth,i mean middle age,and that introspection that we must go through,and the innevitable meeting with the concept of our own mortality and demise,
this is not an issue i have repressed either,
i have reached the conclusion that either
a great adventure awaits,or if there is no adventure,then it doesn't matter,
because you won't know about it,
anyway i will heed your words ,and hopefully something will click,and the ah ha moment will appear,
cavebear.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 53-uk

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? y

Re: animal archetypes

cvbear,
At this stage of life, and myth has a great deal to do with the stages of life, for someone like you and I, climbing out is that level we find ourselves. I sincerely believe we 'fell in' the moment Joseph Campbell captured us with his stories of myth and psyche. From The Power of Myth {Chapter I, Myth and the Modern World

Bill Moyers: Why myths? Why should we care about myths? What have they to do with my life?

Joseph Campbell: My first response would be, "Go on, live your life, it's a good life--you don't need mythology." I don't believe in being interested in a subject just because it's said to be important. I believe in being caught by it somehow or other. But you may find that, with a proper introduction, mythology will catch you. And so, what can it do for you if it does catch you?

Continued:
Joseph Campbell: When you get to be older, and the concerns of the day have all been attended to, and you turn to the inner life--well, if you don't know where it is or what it is, you'll be sorry.

Continued
Joseph Campbell: These bits of information from ancient times, which have to do with the themes that have supported human life, built civilizations, and informed religions over the millennia, have to do with deep inner problems, inner mysteries, inner thresholds of passage, and if you don't know what the guide-signs are along the way, you have to work it out yourself. But once this subject catches you, there is such a feeling, from one or another of these traditions, of information of a deep, rich, life-vivifying sort that you don't want to give it up.

End.

You and I know the guide signs because we were "caught by myth', and Campbell {and I suspect, but not knowing the depth of interest he has in Campbell, Carlos has enriched himself with greater knowledge by having been influenced by Campbell also}. The task now is the return, back to society, with knowledge to share, and perhaps secrets to bear....... gnosis.

But the order of when that happens is not set by any one thing. I believe things converge at a SYNCHRONISTIC time and place. We control much of what it is that gets us to that time and place, but the ultimate experience comes when nature {laws of nature, physical and ***metaphysical} decides it is right. 'Climbing out' is the illusion, what we are really doing is experiencing.

In today's world the demands of 'social duty' is so taxing that achieving that ultimate goal is most difficult. Campbell stated in one of his last interviews {Michael Toms- New Dimensions Radio} how difficult even for him to adhere to the natural laws that govern the psyche. {that was in 1986}. It is hard to stay disciplined in a world that is so materialistic and full of shadow. But that is part of the battle, slaying the dragons. In today's world very often the most difficult {another being the emotions}.

As to what that ultimate goal is. Your bliss. Spiritual, creative. Campbell pointed to the arts. That thing you really love doing. For me it is MDS and the investigation of dreams and the psyche. When I am able to do that 24/7, I will have reached the pinnacle. I see it slowly coming together but I also see the results of my trying to bring it about. Discipline. That is the spiritual, powerful SELF, wise SELF.

As the line from the movie goes: "build it and they will come". Discipline of building it, and the magic it seemingly brings about. But there is nothing magic about it. It is the natural response within nature.

Social duty is a dragon. And so too can be the emotional self. Not easy to be the hero. Requires a lot of discipline {& patience}. With Jung I've solved most of the emotional stuff. And I'm confident {and I sincerely feel soon} the dragon will fall and the treasures revealed.
I'm trying to realize, and enjoy the experience. I believe maybe you are at that same place.

***My thoughts are there is little that is mystical about metaphysical. If it is a law of nature than it is a 'natural' thing, not something outside of nature {that which natural law doesn't control-which is everything}.

Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 57 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: animal archetypes

Gerard
who wouldn't be enriched by campbell.
But I refuse to adhere to any onne theory. It is like viewing the world througha prism.

I see your point with the bringing the knowledge back, but what makes you think he is bringing knowledge back?

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Re: animal archetypes

Carlos,
It isn't Campbell who is bringing the knowledge, it is those who follow the hero path and discover the 'inner secrets' {their own psychology}. Campbell's monomyth outlines the stages of myth in order to discover this knowledge. It is a hidden knowledge only because it has not been acknowledged. It is left to the individual to take the 'hero' path or let society control the life.

Its purely psychological. Exploring the inner life. Myth, dream, symbol and metaphor, with an emphasis on metaphor

Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 57 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: animal archetypes

what makes you think this dream is about the voyage home, or bringing back the knowledge? what in this dream indicates this?

I am not saying you are wrong, I just am wondering what makes you think that.

And Campbell's mono-myth is only applied where applicable.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Re: animal archetypes

Carlos,
The voyage is a process. The monomyth is a process. Knowing Cavebear's situation the monomyth definitely applies. His dreams are full of archetypes. His life has become archetypal. The question for him is in what stage is he in his journey?

Again, it is a purely psychological adventure. The life can take on its own adventure once there is a discovery of the inner hero {Individuation}. One particular dream doesn't address the whole journey. But the process is always a part of his dreams because it is where he is in his life.

Dreams reflect the conditions of the dreamer's life. Life reflects the contents of ones dreams.

Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 57 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: animal archetypes

I disagree.
you can be at different stages on different issues in life.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Re: animal archetypes

Carlos,
I am talking within the context of the Individuation Process. Cavebear has been on his journey for some time, has realized many of the phases and is trying to reach that balance he seeks. I am speaking directly about this process, a Jungian process that is the corner stone of the monomyth. Again, it is psychological, not Freudian, way beyond that limited scope of experience.

Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 57 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes


stats from 7-14-10 to the present