Several weeks ago I had the following dream that, after reading your interpretation of my spider/shower dream, seemed to fit with it.

I dreamed of a trip into space, deep, dark magnificent space and I saw the earth from the depths of space, from afar, but I was too scared to see it from the main place, farthest away, made entirely of glass. I couldn't do it because I was too scared to be confronted by the deep dark immensity, infinity of space and its stars. And when I came back from the trip, a woman in the ship was telling me how beautiful it was and asked if I had seen it. I didn't want to admit that I had not - what would be the purpose of going into space as I had, so far and deep and magnificent, if not to see this view that awes and dims all other views no matter how awesome. I did not answer her.

It brought to mind a quote of Joseph Campbell's I read in "The Intercultural Sojourn as the Hero’s Journey."

"'The agony of breaking through personal limitations is the agony of spiritual growth.... finally, the mind breaks the bounding sphere of the cosmos to a realization transcending all experiences of form - all symbolization, all divinities: a realization of the ineluctable void.'" (p. 190)

The main place in the farthest reaches of space made entirely of glass reminded me of the shower made of glass. And not wanting to be confronted by the immensity of space reminded me of the glass in the shower not being completely transparent. Immensity of space, sort of on a parallel with my own true self symbolized by my nakedness. Am I scared to see my true self?

And another quote:

"The hero's task now is to share her enlightenment. But how 'render back into light-world language the speech-defying pronouncements of the dark? How represent on a two-dimensional surface a three-dimensional form...? How translate into terms of "yes" and "no" revelations that shatter into meaninglessness every attempt to define the pairs of opposites? How communicate to people who insist on the exclusive evidence of their senses the message of the all-generating void? (p. 218) '"

How can I receive this message, how can I build up the courage to view the immensity of space/my true self without uneasiness or a filter hindering my view?

I don't know. Maybe these dreams mean I am getting closer. Closer to attaining that ultimate boon. Maybe.

Thank you for your guidance...

Isa

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Isa,
I will provide my thoughts later in the day. Social duty calls this morning. But being so fortunate to have some time to give to my bliss, I always find my way back to my dream work. It is my bliss.

Gerard

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Isa,
I believe you have 'got it'. To use another Campbell quote, 'he who knows doesn't know. He who doesn't know knows." To receive the message, to build up the courage, is a process. No one knows of a magical spell or chant. But within us all are personal spells, chants, rituals that 'guide' us along the path. And just when you think you are getting no where, it happens. It may be tomorrow, it make take 10 years {a time Campbell mentions when asked 'how long will it take'}. You are on the right path, you are aware of the journey, the journey is your destination. Base your decisions on that knowledge, use your intuitive Self, be that creative/spiritual being, and you will finally arrive.

How will you know? Take my word, you will.

Gerard

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Hi,

I think you are on the right track.

Here are my feeelings about this.

You are now almost able to look in the deep, dark but magnificient parts of yourself that is the wide wourld of your subconcience. But your ego (the main place) might not be quite ready to see all of this. It is scared. What are you scared to see? You are wondering, what is the point of going there if I can't confront it? Youre shadow (The women on the ship) might be ready. Finaly, your ego might have trouble admitting that it is scared of what it will find.

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well your dream does seem to follow on from this other dream. I try toi understand dreams backwards. First I look at issues and thoughts which could possibly truigger a dream and see if the dream symbolism is in any way compatible. To see If I can make the dream fit the thoughts that are dominating our lives.

Your dream does have some interesting symbols. Space is excactly the type of symbol that draws together this potential trigger and the dream. Space refers to things that we cannot ever possibly imagine. That we cannot even begin to comprehend.

The dream may not be so much about the ability of you to understand intellectually the answer given... its maybe more about you unable to accept that any answer is right. Interpreting and analysing dreams is very difficult. Its actually impossible to say that a dream is directly caused by something. You cannot prove it by comparing an answer given with the correct answer at the back of the book. It doesn't work that way

So perhaps the dream captures this kind of thought "That answer given on the dream forum has got me thinking. It seems compatible and very learned. Yet I just don't buy this stuff. Its linked to a bank of knowledge that is unproven. It maybe true but I am not sure I really see it. Its so unfathomable"
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unclesirbobby,
If you would be so kind to clarify your last statement "Yet I just don't buy this stuff. Its linked to a bank of knowledge that is unproven. It maybe true but I am not sure I really see it. Its so unfathomable".
What is it you don't buy and what unproven knowledge do you refer? I'm a bit confused as to the references of this statement.

Gerard

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GERARD : Its not so much about what bI am am thinking. Its about putting myself in someone elses shoes and trying to seee their point of view. Your approach like anyone elses is totally unprovable. So is mine and so is every pyschics dream interpretation.

I think that this dream was definitely about the previous dream. So its about putting yourself in their shoes and seeing how they relate to your answer.

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unclesirbobby,
I'll give a more detailed response later today. I do want to address your response.

Pretty much everything is a concept. And like opinions everybody has one. But with dreams, specifically the scientific approach, there is much that has been proven. Freud started the modern day understanding of dreams and Jung has taken it to a whole new level. My analysis is based on Jungian psyche so to say that it is unproven is contradicted by volumns of scientific date as well as here in the posts and interpretations at the Forum. I am not wanting to promote some out of the way formula as the proven approach to dream interpretation. I am merely expanding on what I have learned from Jung {and all that encompasses}. And it works relatively well, which can be verified by the follow up responses to the interpretations. My approach is not just mine, it is an extension of Jung. You, nor I are capable of such discoveries as Jung has made. He was a scientist using scientific methods, and possessed a far superior psyche. Our brains can understand but the level of discovery that he produced is far beyond our capabilities. I will be the first to admit that.

More later.

Gerard

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Actually I don't have 'much'more to add. I've visited the link you provided {not really enthused about links to outside dream dictionaries-something I will need to give some thought to-I'll get back to you on that}. I'm not familiar with Jonathan Winson but since there is little documentation on his 'success' I can only surmise he was a minor player in the field of dreams.

As for dreams being about our survival strategies, if they were just for that why is it there are so many different dreams that address other aspects of the dreamer's life. Just as Freud proclaimed his 'sexual dogma' as the bullwork of dream analysis, to state that dreams are about our survival strategies seems to leave out what else is occurring in the dreamer's life. As for THETA WAVES. If I had time I would investigate more. But I don't so I won't. I'll leave that to you.

Gerard

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I am not talking so much about an approach in general. My main point is that for any given dream you cannot say 100% that it is caused by this or that. Surely freud and jung had doubts about individual and especially very short dreams. They have no god given right to be right on every occasion.

So to say that a dream about a spider is definitely about this or that is just wrong. These are very abstract symbols.

Again I am not talking about the approach at all. Like I said before I am trying to put myself in someone elses shoes. I am trying to put myself in the shoes of someone who is perhaps new to dream interpretation. Someone who looks at the symbols such as a spider and then reads an interpretation and just does not get it. It all seems a little abstract and theoretical.

In fact a discussion about the rightness and wrongness of freud or jung is really quite irrelevant.

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Isas dream is possibly directly triggered by your dream interpretation. I am not saying that your approach or jungs is wrong. I am merely putting myself in the shoes of someone who DOES have doubts about such an approach. Someone not quite so convinced as you are.

Surely you must agree that such people exist.

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unclesirbobby,
You misunderstand my position on dream interpretation. No where do I imply or intend to leave the impression that my interpretation, or anyone else's is always correct. If you read the language in my interpretations you will see this quite clearly. There is not a clear path to totally understanding a dream, the interpreter can only surmise the possibilities.

But Jung has provided insights to the dream. By using his methods dreams can be understand, and properly interpreted. This of course requires the cooperation of the dreamer since the dream is about that person. When an interpretation is offered, and it fits with the dreamer's actual waking life, most often the person will recognize the connection. If it is not so clear as to what the references are to in the dream, a dialog between the dreamer and the interpreter will most often find the correct connection. It has become, in my opinion, a simple process. Some dreams are easy, others most difficult. But if the dreamer will submit to questions and a dialog then the dream can be understood. This is true if you use Jung's approach. There is plenty of evidence to support that fact here at the Dream Forum, with the 100s of posted dreams and interpretations.

I do not disregard other approaches to dream interpretation. I merely work with a system {Jung's} that has been proven. Any approach can have some success if metaphor is used in interpreting dreams. I often see other approaches that claim to be unique but when you look deeper into those approaches you often find a Jungian influence. Just with personality {Jung's personality types}, what we know today and is accepted by more psychologists began with Jung.

Gerard

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unclesirbobby,
If you look at the heading of this site you will see the words 'A Jungian Perspective'. And most of the contributors are 'Jungian'. Although I do not discourage debate about different approaches to dream interpretation, the goal is to interpret dreams.
I do not discourage other approaches, if I did I would have banned your comments long ago. I do insist on proper respect for one another and do not tolerate inappropriate language. Other than that I let anyone participate as long as they abide by the simple rules I set out.
The intent is to help others understand their dreams, and ultimately themselves. Those who regularly visit the Forum and read what is posted knows this. It is to help others, first and foremost.

Gerard

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Jp,
Thank you for your thoughts. That is interesting that one part of me, at least, (the woman on the ship) is ready to see it. I hadn't thought about that. Maybe my ego is scared of what it will find. I got a vague thought while I was writing this response, let me see if I can make it a little more concrete...

...I thought of my many desires in regards to my goals and interests and...well, maybe I am scared to pick just one, scared to see the utmost one, the grandest - what I have been searching for for so long. And my search to find the ultimate one is the reason I have not gone forward in one direction because I just keep searching and searching. I think to myself, there must be one perfect calling for me - like those people who since they are young know they want to be a doctor, for example, and they dedicate their lives from that moment to attaining that goal. Well, I've always longed for that certainty and I have never had it. So, maybe this dream reflects that, somehow, as well. Maybe I am scared to find it or to choose only one - maybe because I feel comfortable having all these different directions because they keep me safe and if I choose only one, I will really have to work for it and succeed or...fail.

Interesting how I began writing a quick response to your thoughts and it ended up triggering or calling up some entirely different thoughts within me.

Thank you...

Isa

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