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Living Room Meeting

I am in what appears as the first home I owned, when married to my former spouse. The home is much more spacious and open feeling than was it in actual waking life. The rooms are very large and much natural light shines through. Bill is not present with me, nor is he thought about. It feels like “my home.” I am comfortable here. My sister Kallen is with me. We are of good cheer with one another and “expecting” the arrival of my sister, Kim, and her companion. We have prepared the home for their arrival. I am also aware of a very young child being about – of a toddler’s age, but I don’t yet see the child. When I walk toward the front of the house where the entry way is, I look back at the living room and see a long, buffet-sized table with chairs set up. It is of a dark brown, wooden construction and large enough to sit 14 to 18 people. When Kim and her companion arrive, I see that she looks wonderful, healthier than ever I knew her to be in waking life. The man is also very healthy appearing – and handsome – with dark brown hair. Kim and I sit together on the couch. The man takes a photo of us, as we smile and embrace one another while looking at the camera. Sometime during the dream, I have a glimpse of this child. The child appears as a boy, with large, clear, dark blue eyes. I am unsure of whose child it is (he does not look like my own son as a tot, nor does he look like any other child I have known). Later, Kim and her companion are gone and Kallen and I are exiting the home, when a co-worker (a black lady, from my current place of employment) arrives with her grand daughter. I tell her that Kallen and I are on our way to the pool and that her grand daughter may come along with us. She is concerned for her grand daughter’s safety. I assure her that I will be alongside her every moment, as I think of what fun and enjoyment the child will have playing in the water. She produces a blow-up flotation device for her grand daughter – a tube with the head of a sea horse.

A little bit of information regarding my sisters Kim and Kallen. Kim was running away from home at 13 years of age. By the time she 17, she began a trail of being in and out of incarceration given her involvement with drugs, crime and prostitution. She ultimately dies due AIDS, at 36 years old. She was 9 years my senior and I loved her greatly for it was she who mothered me as a toddler. She also inspired me greatly via our later communications wherein I came to see the beauty of her soul through her artwork and writing ability. Kallen, sadly, I found, became the projection of much of my own shadow. It was too hard to hate/disapprove of myself as a child, so I lumped it all on her. Much of my need for some of my deepest emotional healing has come in the form of her image. As I’ve healed what were shared wounds, their images and the context of my dreams with them, have become increasingly more positive.

Kristi

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 41, Overland Park, Kansas

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

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Re: Living Room Meeting

Embrace,
Such a tragic series of events. I am a firm believer in the childhood experiences as being a central catalyst for adult life. The most vulnerable age in life {infancy and childhood}, the magnitude of negative experiences during those years are all too often reflected in the out-of-balance lives so many of us live as adults. I was one with such experiences {a father who could care less}. It has taken years to overcome the influences of those negative experiences. I am lucky that I discovered Joseph Campbell, Carl Jung and a process {Individuation} that provided an outlet for recovery.

As for your dream. I want to take some time to examine it thoroughly before giving a final interpretation. But some observations.
The first home you owned would most likely represent that period of time of interaction with your sisters {and not the real first house-Bill is not present with me, nor is he thought about}. As you stated in your narrative at the end of the post, those positive/negative experiences with your sisters would most likely fit here. The dream does seem to be centered on children, or childhood.

But where does this man fit in? Is/was there such a person, The man is also very healthy appearing – and handsome – with dark brown hair? And if so what influence did he have in your life as a child? The black lady could represent unconscious aspects, something that provides new info. She brings her granddaughter with her. Does that have meaning {granddaughter}?

The good news is you have entered that healing phase {has Jung been an influence?}. From what I've read from your previous posts you have already entered into that realm of 'return' {the hero/heroine cycle}. But even with that reflection is something that lingers, if not conscious then unconscious. It is, I believe, a part of the process. Examining every little bit of evidence. It is required therapy even though it can still be very painful.

Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 57 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} M

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: Living Room Meeting

Hi Gerard,

Yes, still some pieces to pick up - and through (the pain) is the only way.

I do agree that the home represents the time period of interactions with my sisters, but given it is my first home as an adult and NOT the home of my childhood (wherein I dreamed myself as many memories have been brought forward for examination) must indicate something - and seems to convey to me that I am in a new place with my past.

I think that it is very spacious with much natural light filling the space, reflects greater openness (welcoming) regarding what these images intend to communicate to me - invites me to greater awareness.

Kallen, who used to stand for much within myself which I could not accept is now joined with me "in my home" (the home my former spouse and I purchased "when first we were married") and together we welcome Kim.

Is the animus figure (no, there was not such a one in Kim's/my own life, in past years) who takes the picture asking me to image/see myself with/as Kim?

As I moved through my day yesterday, I recalled a passage I just recently read in Marion's Woodman's, Addicted to Perfection : "Once the woman has acknowledged her own madonna and whore (i.e., Sophia) she finds herself pondering in a new place." This statement coming on the same page with: "The sexual/spiritual energies woven together through intercourse create a third. Not necessarily the birth of a physical child, but the birth of a spiritual child, a relationship." This is on pg. 172. Would you read that page if you have it and let me know what you think? The woman who wrote the passage regarding the creation of a third, is referring to a physical relationship, I think. Yet, this can also happen within us each.

The whore aspect is present in my being already joined with Kallen and we meeting and embracing Kim. Sophia can be seen in the natural (glowing) light that fills the dream space.

When I woke from and recorded the dream, "The Lady" sat with me. It was a very healing energy.

There IS a table large enough for a feast present.

Is the boy child who lingers a spiritual child?

Is the black woman with child questioning if I am up to the task of nurturing this child in the waters of life?

One on the outside looking in, given what I have shared of my history, can see many things... but I have done "much" healing already with these parts of myself - though there is more to go.

I wonder if we don't sometimes look only for the "big" symbols in a dreamer's dream, instead of seeing how the larger symbols are tailored to/made personal to the dreamer's individual life...

You may point me to see something new - and I wholeheartedly welcome that. But these are my thoughts, right now, and they do bring much emotion to spend time with.

Yes, Jung has been a part of my journey. I once dreamed he and Von Franz performing a powerful (deeply healing and profoundly cathartic) psychodrama in my sleep state, from which I woke with a river of energy running through me and feeling held in the loving embrace of my Self.

Kristi

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 41, Overland Park, Kansas

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: Living Room Meeting

The banquet sized table in the living room was empty = the need for nurture and nourishment.

Kristi

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 41, Overland Park, Kansas

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: Living Room Meeting

Hi Embrace,

Now I know where our connection comes from. When I was born my mother sufferred from depression and was not able to take care of me, so my eldest sister was taken out of school and looked after me for many years. I only found this out when I was 46yo. No one had ever said anything about it, but it explains why i was so upset when my sister got married.

Of late I have been helping my wife with differences in job motivations and it started me thinking about my childhood situation. A woman who gives birth to a child is to nuture it, love it, provide a mirror for the child. That is her motivation providing a bond is created. But a sister who has not given birth to a child, treats the role somewhat differently. There is no bond, it is a job and if this job stops the sister from doing what she wants to do, then who knows what is going through her head at the time.

I still believe the core root is Psyche and Eros, but do you know which fairytale was derived from this myth? Cinderella - the early versions, not the Borthers Grimm or Disney one. What your dream reminds me of is your psyches version of the ball as derived from the banquet table.

Now Bruno Beetleheim wrote a good section in his book "Uses of Enchantment" about Cinderella and he attributes this to being about Sibling Rivalry, which is really a projection of what the child is missing from his/her parents. But this didn't click with me as the story of Cinderella, the parents are only mentioned in the first two paragraphs and are then no longer mentioned. The story is about the siblings and their relationships towards each other. The thing about sibling rivalry is about getting the sole attention of the parent, like piglets with the mother pig, so as you can see the parents aren't in the picture. In real life this could be either physically, spiritually or psychologically.

No, I think Cinderella is about Self-Esteem and I am amazed that everyone can't agree on what it is. Sure there are many definitions, like there are versions of the Cinderella fairytale. The current thinking is that Self-esteem reflects an overall self-appraisal of their own worth. But you know the thing that bothers me - compared to what. It seems like a positioning strategy. Where a person fits in the great scheme if things, in society. Now if that's the outer world experience, then it is most probably refelcted in the inner world. How the ego sees it's own worth against the complexes and archetypes, and here is the myth pattern of Eros and Psyche. How Psyche is seen against Venus. And then this leads to the balancing act between the ego and the others.

You know, I am going to write an article about this. It makes too much sense not to be shared and looked at objectively.

Stephen

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 49 Sydney Australia

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: Living Room Meeting

Kristi,
I'll address your questions about your dream later. First I want to address other parts of your post.

I purchased a copy of Woodman's book 'Addition to Perfection many years ago but have lost track of it. Woodman is one of my favorites. Her audio book Dreams-Language of the Soul is a masterpiece. She takes Jung to another level.

Life is but a metaphor....Joseph Campbell

If I am reading your question right,

"The sexual/spiritual energies woven together through intercourse create a third. Not necessarily the birth of a physical child, but the birth of a spiritual child, a relationship."

That is the primary goal of the hero/heroine journey. To discover within oneself the spiritual 'Self', and create a relationship where spiritual aspect is the controlling agent in life and not the ego. Live out of that and nature provides the helping hands to get you over the next obstacle.

Mythological, from the myth we know best, the death and resurrection is what must happen to the individual psyche {metaphor}. Jesus on the cross is you, or me, experiencing the death of the ego and resurrection to the spiritual. Its entirely psychological but the life is about the psychology first and foremost.

As for sex and spirituality. From Joseph Campbell's Transformations of Myths Through Time in discussing the Kundalini he talks about love and sex coming from the same zone {second Cakra}. One is on the level of the physical animal {sex}, and love from a higher level, spirit. It is purely metaphorical, as in dreams and myth.

"I wonder if we don't sometimes look only for the "big" symbols in a dreamer's dream, instead of seeing how the larger symbols are tailored to/made personal to the dreamer's individual life".
For most that is true. Some people have archetypal dreams often {Cavebear}. But your statement paints a true picture for most, at least that is my thinking and my experience in working with dreams.

"It was a very healing energy"

Dreams are therapeutic, that we know. I wish more people would take time to get a better understanding of dreams. I feel sure many would give more time to self discovery if they understood the therapeutic value of dreams.

I see Stephen has posted more of his thoughts. I'll examine this post more in the morning. I'm sure there is enough written today to keep you busy.


The spiritual path is a psychological journey

Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 57 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} M

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: Living Room Meeting

Hi Stephen,

My sister left the home when I was 4-5 years old. Only a child herself (ideally, it wasn't her job to do) but her love was the only love in my young life that came closest to mothering. Her departure from the home left a deep void in me. But I did not come to conscious awareness of this (and how I unconsciously mixed the roles of "sister" and "mother") until these later years.

She and I did have a bond, that continued to develop when I was an adolescent/teenager. I experienced the (greater) tragedy of "her" life as if it were my own.

I didn't know the tale of Cinderalla was derived from Psyche and Eros. I also think Cineralla is about "S"elf-Esteem.

The example of sibling rivalry (being as searching for/competing for the attention/lost love of parents) is something seen outside of the family unit, too - pouring over into so many of our affairs as we reach adulthood.

It seems to me that part of growing up/out of this is accepting that one's parents do/did their best - could not give/mirror greater love because they did not themselves have it/know it to give. And we find that the love we looked for comes from the Self. And along the way in this process, we come to realize the true, wholesome interdependence we have on one another - to be mirrors of wholeness and freedom (from the conditioned state) for one another.

I picked up a copy of Metamorphoses from the bookstore yesterday. I'm going to study it!

Thank you.


Gerard,

That "healing energy" brought up a lot. I did not realize how much more pain was in this for me. I'd say more now in response to your post, but it was enough just to write this, tonight.

Kristi

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 41, Overland Park, Kansas

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: Living Room Meeting

Hi Embrace,

I just finished reading the Psyche and Eros fable in "Metamorphosis of the Golden Ass". I was so moved and excited, I couldn't stop until I finished it. The one I read was the Thomas Taylor translation from 1822. So much has been left out (censored) from modern retelling of the myth and in Cinderella. It explains why Cinderella just did all the chores (tasks). I could never figure out why she just did it without a fight. I really felt for Psyche. She did waht the victims do in most modern day horror stories. They do what they shouldn't do ie, they walk down the dark ally alone and then get killed. But if they didn't do that, there would be no story.

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention is that the roles of the step-sisters and Cinderella and the positive or negative traits of Venus are interchangeable amoungst siblings.

Stephen

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 49 Sydney Australia

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: Living Room Meeting

Hi Gerard,

I've only read a few on Marion's titles to date: The Owl was a Baker's Daughter (this, not because I am anoerixic or overweight, but because it also wonderfully illustrates and teaches the effects of the repressed feminine) and Leaving My Father's House, besides the one I've just finished reading. Her work is not easy for me. I have to read slowly and let it get inside of me to move things around. I also listened to two of her audio sets, one was on dreams, that my analyst gave me to spend time with. I'm not sure - it may have been the one you speak of. I don't recall the title. I also listened to "And the Stillness Shall be the Dancing." It too was very good. I like "hearing" her, as she is a very dynamic woman - and this comes across very clearly in her voice. The thing with her work, for me, is that I find myself feeling I need to read (or listen), again - to find what may have been missed the first time around.

Yes, you were interpreting my question right! I've also followed the tale of the Fisher King on this - that we give the wound (which becomes the death of the ego) over to sacred service. I've another book on this from Robert Johnson, waiting to be read.

You mention the title by Campbell where he discusses the kundalini - that may be a good read for me - as it was a spontaneous (and powerful) movement of this in my life that initiated my entry into healing/individuation.

Of my dream, you said: The first home you owned would most likely represent that period of time of interaction with your sisters. And I am not certain I heard you correctly... Whether or not you were referring to the interactions with my sisters at "that" time in my life? If so, there was no interaction with my sisters during that time. Each of the three of us here (there is a fourth) all resided in different states. My family had/has become quite divided/separted one from another.

I do have a "grandchild" of my own (young Gradnmom!) who is 2.5 years old - and I do wish for him to not inherit so much of the dysfunction I (and my son) endured. But he also does not look anything like the young boy child of this dream.

As I reflected yesterday, I remembered I have had several dreams of family in this home. In all of them, my former spouse was not present. So, it drew my attention to the factor of how much of what we carry into adulthood is catalyzed in our early years.


Hi Stephen,

You said: ...the roles of the step-sisters and Cinderella and the positive or negative traits of Venus are interchangeable amoungst siblings.

I see that! Thanks.

The copy of Metamorpohoses that I purchased is from the Loeb Classical Library, translated by J. Arthur Hanson. I'm trusting (hoping) it will serve me well. I also got an old Classic version of "Robin Hood" from the library over the weekend, so I am going to finish that before I start on Apuleius.


Embrace

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 41, Overland Park, Kansas

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

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