Hi Dream weavers,

I had these dreams just as / and after my mother died last year.
I was about to throw out my dream journals and re-read the dreams : knocked me back

Morning of her death:
message delivered from the feminine:
"I want you to live with complete freedom
I want you to be happy
I want, with all me heart,
I want you to experience the joy / the freedom
that comes / is, when you live for yourself
, , , the feeling of what it would be like to live with absolute freedom / creating what I wanted"

I woke, wrote this down, went back to bed - and the phone rang , , ,

Eleven days later: 16 October - my fathers birthday (he is dead).
funeral over, I have returned home
"my mother returns, she is in a hurry, time is brief, she has to go, she has come to collect her things and then she must go. She has come to tell me what the problem is - what the problem is with the men in our family - that the problem is with the men.
I interrupt her. I tell her if the problem is in the men, then I must have the problem also, because I am a man in our family , , , and I did not marry until I was 50." , , , she has to leave

next part of the dream is ? her / a woman teacher - in a yoga class. She is looking down on / at me. I am lying down exhausted, wheezing, cannot breath.
She is asking me for the final / wrap-up theme - the lesson is finishing. She is leading the class, she wants the theme from me - I an lying there and say, 'can't you see I am in distress' I say this over and over. It felt like she was asking me something she should know or come up with herself.
Was it my mother asking me what was the theme of her life?
I do '/ did get asthma and my distress was like that

In light of my previous dreams about being blocked by the feminine (a female prison guard, a teacher, a Head Nurse) - AND - in light of my deep Oedipal issues arising from a possessive mother this is the first dream I have had of the feminine in a positive light.

Is the female yoga teacher in this dream the same aspect of my anima - the mana personality , , , is this what she wants , , , the theme.

And - if the problem is within the men of my family , , , what is it , , , aaahh
Could this be the 'fixed opposition' that Jerry mentioned in "Can't proceed" ?
A fixed opposition to the feminine - I recall him telling me numerous times, "women can't be trusted" Could this be what she meant ?
And my mother was a cold fish herself - never let herself over to her feelings or her body - she was all in her head (Head Nurse).

Amazing that I could 'forget' I had had these dreams , and if they were not there in my own hand writing I would doubt their validity - however I cannot , , , they speak for themselves , , , I am listening


thanks
Justin

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 50 Hong Kong

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Hi Justin,

You said: "this is the first dream I have had of the feminine in a positive light."

Is it this dream below that you are referring to as positive?

next part of the dream is ? her / a woman teacher - in a yoga class. She is looking down on / at me. I am lying down exhausted, wheezing, cannot breath.
She is asking me for the final / wrap-up theme - the lesson is finishing. She is leading the class, she wants the theme from me - I an lying there and say, 'can't you see I am in distress' I say this over and over. It felt like she was asking me something she should know or come up with herself.
Was it my mother asking me what was the theme of her life? I do '/ did get asthma and my distress was like that.

I wonder if your inability to yoke (yoga) to your own soul (your creativity, passion, ability to move forward, etc.) is what this dream is speaking about, and why...

I may have more to attempt to offer later, but I wanted to check first to see if this was the dream you see as "positive." Or was it the first you shared in this thread, "the message from the feminine," that you referred to as positive? That one is obvious/clear, but as you expressed the word positive after the yoga teacher dream, I want to be sure of what I am reading.

Kristi

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43, Kansas

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Hi Kristi,

night time here now so this will be brief - your take on the second part of the dream is a surprise - and meaningful to me because it is accurate.
For a reason I cannot understand / do now know I have been unable to link yoga to my creative side (and teaching yoga has been a hard journey); and I have lost the link between my professional work life and my soul.

In reference to something from the feminine in my dreams that is positive I meant the first part of the dream, the message from my mother / a feminine messenger

gotta go

thanks
JC

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 50 Hong Kong

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Hi Justin,

You'll have to excuse me, for I ended up writing an awful lot. I found doing so was also helpful to me, as I am working through negative mother/positive mother stuff, too. I hope you also find something here helpful. In the longest run, I feel the Feminine calls us to return to Love and harmony, in compassionate understanding.

Eleven days later: 16 October - my fathers birthday (he is dead).

funeral over, I have returned home
"my mother returns, she is in a hurry, time is brief, she has to go, she has come to collect her things and then she must go. She has come to tell me what the problem is - what the problem is with the men in our family - that the problem is with the men.
I interrupt her. I tell her if the problem is in the men, then I must have the problem also, because I am a man in our family , , , and I did not marry until I was 50." , , , she has to leave

I note that this dream came on your father's birthday... Then, mother comes in your dream. Whether or not you were actively (consciously) contemplating Mom and Dad on this day, I imagine that memory of your father was (in some context) at least stirred within you on this day. And as you were/are working hard to understand the dynamics of influence from Mom and Dad on both the child you were and man you are, your psyche fruitfully responds to your request for understanding with an instructive dream, showing you something of your mother in regard to your father (men), and hence you, even as (when) you were a child.

((( While I understand you do not need for me to "spell out" my response in the fashion I have above, I do so for the benefit of others reading, so that they may also follow the flow of the process, both of how psyche responds to us and of how it affects us. That is, if I am accurate... )))

From your words in your other post, I gather that your Mom had lots of Negative Mother/Masculine in her, most all we women do, until we don't.

Woman are no different from men when we feel our powerlessness... We become overly assertive, controlling, etc. Rules, edicts, accusations, opinions...they give us a false sense of power. And who is the easiest subject for a Mom to wield them on? Sadly, her children. I did much of this to my own son. And they became a part of his psychic composition, as did your mother's yours.

Until we introspect, the problem is always outside of us (projection), hence Mom tells you that the problem is with the men in the family (and, again, hence, you).

She is right in a sense, but only half right, for the other half of the problem is with the women in the family. Her own masculine and feminine were not in balance. I feel this is what her image was ultimately communicating to you, showing how that effected you...and what you need to balance in your own self. She was at war with her own inner masculine, as was your father at war with his own inner feminine ("woman can't be trusted," from your other dream thread).

As a child, we inherit all the psychic goo of our parents. Yeah, it is a lot for us as young children. Very confusing. But, to the nuts and bolts that I see in this dream... Did the child you were feel wrong? For being a male/man? Did he feel wrong for "being" at all? Did your mother project so much of her unhappiness and dissatisfaction with life and men (your father and other males in your family)and surely many others also, onto you? In her efforts to stop, correct, change, alter you (tell you how to dress, how to behave, if and when to do this or that), did she send a message that said, "You just are not right?" "Nothing you do can or will please me?" "You'll never get it right!"

I can ask these questions, because I did this to my own son, and I know he struggles to free himself from the grips of my influence. I see it in him every time he visits me. And I do my level best to always give him back (affirm) his right to his own life/soul. It is my prayer for him, not unlike the positive words of the positive feminine at the start of your post.

next part of the dream is ? her / a woman teacher - in a yoga class. She is looking down on / at me. I am lying down exhausted, wheezing, cannot breath.
She is asking me for the final / wrap-up theme - the lesson is finishing. She is leading the class, she wants the theme from me - I an lying there and say, 'can't you see I am in distress' I say this over and over. It felt like she was asking me something she should know or come up with herself.
Was it my mother asking me what was the theme of her life?
I do '/ did get asthma and my distress was like that

I imagine the lesson will finish when you "get" the message of your mother...understand her influence on you, and hence release yourself from it, enabling you to yoke to your own soul...recovering your soul from her negative influence. In reading this dream piece, I saw a demanding, devouring mother ... and the part of your psyche laying breathless beneath the power of her demands, pleading the distress of your inability to please her...as does the psyhce of each child ensnared in the mother complex. And, if we take it in a positive light, we can see the feminine (yoga/soul) teacher telling of a need to surrender to her wisdom, to get the ego (and teh memories of Mom) out of the way.

What is the theme? What is the theme she (anima) wants? And what does your own positive, inner feminine want for you?

I personally believe the good/Divine Mother/Feminine wants freedom for her children, that she brings light to the darkness, so that we may free our consciousness from it. Is this not the function of these dream messages, to enlighten you as to the conditions of influence that the power of your mother's (and father's) psyche wielded on the child you were? In another respect, we can also call her the Dark Mother/Goddess, for she takes us to and asks us to suffer through these pains which increase our growth/consciousness/freedom.

And, in her heart of hearts, what did even "Mother" ... the loving, cherishing, encouraging, positive feminine, really want for her son? Did you open this thread with those words? When you take all the negative masculine in her away...if you take away all the past ill effects of life and living unconsciously, what would "Mother" have wanted for you.

Fixed opposition to the feminine? "Women can't be trusted." Did Dad trust his own inner feminine? I suppose not, for the outer is a reflection of the inner. He probably did not trust (know) his own deep feminine, loving self. I am sure he dreamed of her, as did your mother dream of her loving, affirming masculine...but we all project these outside, (have learned to ) think/believe that they exist outside of ourselves, will be found in another. And when that other does not measure up to the love we long for, we are disappointed and blame. We just have it (our parents had it) all wrong and are therefore in disharmony. Perhaps when we all learn again that each is (already) whole unto themselves, we will all know how to be and share Love with our children, and one another.

Kristi

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 43, Kansas

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Justin,
"Amazing that I could 'forget' I had had these dreams , and if they were not there in my own hand writing I would doubt their validity". Therein lies my confusion about forgetting dreams.

Are not these dreams related to the experiences of life in relationships with your mother and father. Although the deeper aspects of dreams will point to who you are internally, it was from those experiences and relationships in early life {as well as throughout life} that formed those internal traits. Focusing on the actual experiences can lead to an understanding of those relationships, and provide insights to who you are now and why you are who you are. The opposites your mother played in your life {Kristi-Her own masculine and feminine were not in balance}, the unconscious awareness if not conscious most likely left a big impression on your psyche {especially in early childhood where the psyche instinctively understands since there is no developed ego to oppose it}. I am constantly going back to my childhood, in time and memory, and researching what was there. Often I find 'literal' experiences, not having to do with dream metaphor, that have awakened me to the realities of my childhood {and thus who I became as an adult}. Dreams reflect the inner most realities within the psyche. And although the language of dreams is most often symbol and metaphor, those closest relationships often are as much literal interpretations as they are metaphorical. In other words your dreams are reflecting the actual relationship with your parents, and who they are/were {of course you were unaware of this}. The relationship with them may be the central theme of the dream as much as the lasting and constructive experiences from those relationships that formed your psyche. It may be important to step back and analyse dreams in a different light other than what we commonly use as rules of interpretation and see things as they are, or as they were {actual experiences}. If these dreams used people of less importance in your life, or unknown persons, then I would be inclined to look at that as mostly metaphorical. But close relationships such as parents, siblings, great loves, are often representative of literal interpretations as much as {if not equal to} symbolic translations. This is one reason it is sometimes very difficult to interpret younger people's dreams since you must decide if the characters in the dreams are metaphorical or not. A still undeveloped ego {or still developing ego} at a younger age is more focused on the developed, and self interests, looking forward and not back.

Why would that be important? Memories from early childhood {remember, this is my own developed philosophy and not necessarily that of Jung} remain within the psyche because they have 'numinosity', psychic energy to survive. And they possess this energy because it was an instructive moment or experience in life. Primitive man relied on instincts, many of which still survive in present day human psyche. A child's psyche is closer to that primitive mind since there is no developed ego to overrule it.
Fire was an instrumental development for early man. Thus I dare think their dreams would be full of fire images. Was there meaning in that other than the literal discovery and experience of fire? Perhaps.It would depend largely on the individual psyche {in the case of primitive man there would be less differences from one psyche to another}.

As you are aware, early life experiences have a great influence over the development of the psyche {I have a neighbor in his 50s who just had a newborn. I continually caution him to be aware of his actions because that infant senses what is taking place and does not easily forget}. Those early experiences are stored within the psyche and often become controlling agents to some degree later in life. So I when I look back to my childhood and see [as a third person} what was really there, I think of the experiences as literal { and defining}. If those images come up in my dreams I believe it important to remember the literal experiences in my interpretation.

Hope this doesn't cause more confusion.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 59 Murfreesboro, Tn

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Hi Jerry + Kristi,

thank you - all that you have written has been very helpful,
(esp Kristi's from yr perspective as a woman and a mother).

Your extended comments are also appreciated..

I am glad you noticed that the date of the dream was the anniversary of my fathers Birthday. This fact added potency to the dreams significance; especially as I was reading the journal 8 - 9 months after the date !

What I called "mother issues" are Oedipal; lets call it like it is / was- as reflected in the myth of Oedipus; re-reading and reading psychological commentary on the Oedipus complex has been very helpful, and disturbing at the same time. (ref. Alexander Lowen)

In brief, I have found it difficult to get to the positive mother stuff in my life yet. I had no role model for that. Your assessment, and Jerry's sense of my mother being older, authorative (and I do not / cannot expect my wife to fulfil that role for me !) This could be the fixed opposition that Jerry mentioned somewhere : this fits. A fixed negative attitude to the feminine, and to life , , , this fits and goes deep. And indeed my father must have had this attitude also - he passed it on to me ! so that fits also.
If this is so then I need to fundamentally change , , , and wow, how to do that. It feels like a total shift in polarity : from negative -> positive.

Pertinent to this thread + the dream is that the 'problem' is also within me.
In the dream she said the problem is with the _____ men : she used our family name - as referring to something that is within men of my family in the sense of an extended family , , , uncle now dead, lots of male cousins, and the following generation of young men , , , so it is a pattern or something that has been swept under the carpet I think.

It has taken me a long time to get to this stage of being able to see the effect of my mothers influence on me - both in early childhood through lack of physical contact, and then compounded later through a 'too close' a relationship using me as her emotional intimate (so that is 'yes' to one of your questions), thus making me feel 'special', further compounding the estrangement from my father.
(She may not have told me how to dress, what to do etc - the vehicle was her approval / disapproval. All this was on the background of a father who was emotionally distant, not emotionally there).
So really she had a fixed negative attitude to the masculine - she 'took' from the masculine and never acknowledged the sacrifice of the masculine to her in doing so.
However in the dream her intent was to tell / alert me to the men in our family, of whom I am one; it was not about her - which is where my attention had been focused - on her. The issue is the effect she had on me , , ,

Thank you for your take on the 'wrap-up theme' I am being asked for - I can see many interpretations. One is that it is the wrap-up theme of her life : if so then I can see the influence of her on me.
Alternately, this could be asking me for the theme of my life.

Yes, in retrospect my mother was devouring, and demanding - all in a 'nice' socially approved of way of course , , ,this is what made it so insidious. It was all about appearances - keeping up appearances. But my childhood dreams / nightmares were of being stranded alone on a narrow strip of sand, as the tide came in, and the sharks were circling , , ,

So I am left with 'what does the positive feminine want',
indeed what is a positive aspect of the feminine -
I think message at the time of my mothers death tells me -

"I want you to live with complete freedom
I want you to be happy
I want, with all me heart,
I want you to experience the joy / the freedom
that comes / is, when you live for yourself
, , , the feeling of what it would be like to live with absolute freedom / creating what I wanted"

This is the paradigm shift I have to make within myself - to believe this - to have faith in this

many thanks for your extended replies,

namaste
Justin

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 50 Hong Kong

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Justin,
An excellent post. Your openness is a refreshing. I was beginning to think there was so few of us who dare speak of such inner things. It is great therapy, for you and those of us to whom you so graciously share your experiences.

I believe when a person can identify those major pattern{s} of behavior they have indeed 'crossed a major threshold' {which coincide with the primary patterns of myth}. You can not heal that which is not known. And to know what those controlling patterns are in a person's life one must go inward. Either alone or with the help of others {usually a therapist}. It is psychology first, knowing second, healing third.

"It has taken me a long time to get to this stage of being able to see the effect of my mothers influence on me".

That is a major threshold to cross. Now the healing can take place. An awareness of those controlling agents is a path to overcoming them. Your childhood was a devouring mother. Mine lacked a caring father. Both presented barriers we have had to overcome. But we succeeded because we did take that inner journey. We discovered what was really there all along. WE faced it, we are putting it in its proper place and now we are able to grow. Life is not a success if we lack personal growth. And that comes from the inside out.

"So I am left with 'what does the positive feminine want', indeed what is a positive aspect of the feminine".

Freedom, happiness, heart. We know Campbell instructions to discovering this aspect was to 'follow your bliss'. Your words are a testament to what 'bliss' is;
"creating what I wanted".

The creative aspect. There is where I always return, to that inner potential of creative growth. It is a spiritual thing in that we share that great potential with others. Healing others, we grow from that.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 59 Murfreesboro, Tn

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