Two dreams posted recently by two females both in their early 20s that may provide insights to the differences in younger people's dreams. The first was much harder to interpret because of language that seemed less symbolic {in my mind}. The second was a basic dream that used symbolic language that I thought to be more standardized even for a young person.

The first dream probably illustrated why a dream of some younger people are more difficult to decipher. That dream is Farming and Aliens. Although there were many images that were definitely symbolic {aliens, farm land, weed eater}, there was also language that seemed to be more personal and not so symbolic. I had to break down the dream is paragraphs {always the best way to post, and interpret a dream} to see the differences. That part involved her boyfriend and his strange behavior {it began when he was first included in the dream}. It was confusing, having straight forward language entwined {a new word in my vocabulary} with what I deemed symbolic imagery. Not until I went back and re-examined the dream, breaking apart the symbolic parts and then the bf part, that I sensed it was including possible recent personal waking experiences and not the symbolic language we usually see in a dream. This part about the bf gave me cause to think the dream was addressing the relationship with him, the changes in him affecting the dreamer {and possible changes in her attitudes}.

The second dream, Troubling Confusing Dream , was what we would expect in a dream. It was pretty much symbolic. Amputated legs, floating bodies are standard stuff. The 'swimming in muddy, dirty water' is also not uncommon language for a dream. A different type dream by two younger people of nearly the same age.

Of course I have yet to hear back from either. But no matter I see a difference in the dreams. The first is often usual for a young person, the dream addressing recent waking emotional experiences that is not so deep routed. The second seems to have deeper roots, and thus a symbolic language. Perhaps that is the most difficult aspect when interpreting dreams of a younger person.

Any thoughts by other forum members/guests?

Jerry

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This dream ran circles around me, I had no idea what to think about it. After reading everyones posts again, I must submit to your inclination, I just don't know.

I wondered about the aliens being females though. I wondered if that might mean her desire for maternal protection from an unfavorable experience with her boyfriend. It vaguely impressed me as similar to the young female client of jung's who due to a sexual trauma if I remember right, fantasized she had gone to the moon, had left the physical body.

I'm not suggesting there is any reason to suspect sexual trauma in this case. I think I understand your point though; the boyfriend scene seemed to be its own interpretation. Possibly it was as jung says 'the undisturbed sway of nature'

The other dream was much more familiar, with its uncanny drama in the water. It had much more the character of some of my dreams. I greatly enjoyed your illuminating responses to them.

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Sam,
I appreciate your post and observations. Conversations about such things can be illuminating but there has to be a dialog to begin with. I thank you for starting such a dialog.

A few notes that may help clarify my thinking on this dream. It is a difficult one, not just for the symbolic images but because it is a dream of someone so young. We have to take a different approach to such dreams, such being different than an older person's dreams in most cases. I believe that is established, for dreams of most younger people vs an adults. The reason for such differences is a younger person is looking forward, still establishing an ego/persona and does not have the life experiences to look back on {and reflect on. An older person {past the age of 40 as a rule of thumb} begins to look back, has such life experiences to draw on {baggage} and their dreams reflect this state of mind {as all dreams do, reflecting the experiences of the dreamer}.

The second dream I reference contains mostly symbolic references and not the direct associations to a closely related person as in the first dream {bf}. It is more on the scale of an older person's dream. I believe this is because there is some past experience in this young woman's life that left an emotional impression strong enough to have psyche energies that remain in the psyche until they are resolved. Why she has this dream at this time of life is debatable. My thoughts are if not now she would have them later in life, as most older adults do.

The amputated arms and floating bodies are symbolic of some aspect of the dreamer's emotional life {dreams are first and foremost about the emotions}. These images are not something that normally experienced in the dreamer's life so they have to be symbolic. Exactly what they represent can still be most difficult for a second reason; a younger person's psyche which is still developing includes experiences of the waking life {which is most visible in the first dream} with those of emotional past experiences. The difference in the two dreams is the second is purely metaphorical {floating bodies/cut up parts}. If I did not know this was a Yong person, age 22, I would tend to think it was a dream of an older person. It is usually a rememberable emotional experienced of the young person that has entered the subconscious {between unconscious and consciousness} that causes such a dream. And usually traumatic enough to be brought to bare at such an early age.

As for the aliens being female. The dream states the aliens are female {"there were a group of women who were aliens"}. Jung tells us that the dream always means just what is says. I look at these women {unnamed} as aspects of the dreamer. Also, the three named people are her grandma, her sister and herself, all female. It was not till later in the dream that a male is mentioned. And that part of the dream contains few images that would be classified as symbolic, as a reference to an animus figure {although the neighbor would fit here}. And this part of the dream seems so different to the rest of the dream. No aliens in this dialog, mostly a description of how her boyfriend is acting differently. It is later in the dream that the aliens return {"Later that night"}. When it does return to the aliens the bf is no longer included in the dialog. If the dream were stated in appropriate paragraphs I would think the differences {inclusion/exclusion of the by} would be in a paragraph form.

Something also important is the feelings in the dream. The last paragraph states, "I felt fine the whole time too no sadness no extreme happiness either". It may be this whole experience, a recent experience in a younger person's life, is still not a conscious event to be that worrisome. It is still an unconscious event, the psyche already debating the possible changes in the boyfriend as well as the dreamer {as would be the primary value of the dream}. It could be she, the 21 year old dreamer, intuitively has picked on these changes but yet has to consciously to do so. Alien contents that have yet to become conscious. And alien experiences that she does not want to come about {her by changing into something different that what she originally perceived}.

But of course this is all conjecture since the dreamer has yet to provide a follow-up response {first dream}. One aspect about such a response is a young dreamer may be unable to connect the dots, whereas an older person would {usually accompanied by the fact an older person has already invested time examining the possibilities}. There have been many instances where a young person has posted an emotionally charged and symbolic dream, received an interpretation, and recognized the connections. Such dreams, as is the case with any dream with an appropriate follow-up response] are most valuable. If there is not a connection I don't automatically dismiss the interpretations as wrong.

As for how I come to my conclusions. The most important is the study of Jungian psyche. Jung has established the broad outlines to understanding dreams, and they work. After almost 18 years of study I feel I have a good grasp of his concepts although I have little interest in securing a clinical understanding of the precise applications {becoming a trained psychologist}. It is a bit late in my life for that, plus I have no interest.

The second avenue to my conclusions is my intuitive self. I intuitively understand Jungian psyche. We all have this capacity to understand, not necessarily Jung but something within the psyche that we all possess {such as the archetypes}. From my very first encounter with Joseph Campbell in 1992 {The Power of Myth on PBS}, which of course was also my first encounter with Jungian psyche since Campbell was a 'Jungian", I intuitively 'understood' even though at that time I had little conscious recognition of it. I have been on that path ever since, it is my bliss, it fits with who I am.

The third avenue to my conclusions of the dream is my experiences working with dreams at the Dream Forum. Practice makes perfect. I have come to the belief from my studies there are basic rules that fit with 'most' dreams. One is age. In most dreams of an adult, when the image of a child is within the dream language, it usually is addressing an experience having to do with that time of life of the dreamer. This has been verified by the dreamer in their follow-up posts many times. And seldom is it different. There are intangibles to recognizing when the dream is speaking to an early life event but I can usually 'see' when it is.

As for the 'sexual trauma' possibility. I did not see that in either dream. The first dream was about the relationship with her bf, not a sexual conflict. The second dream was directed at unconscious conflicts that are unresolved, and from her response not consciously connected. She stated she had left a life that was in a 'mess' so we van only conclude the dream is addressing some aspect about that. The muddy waters could be a symbol for not being able to recognize what the conflicts are. There could be an element of repression.

Jerry

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Thank You Jerry, I will consider the very illuminating insights that you offered.

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Amber has posted a follow-up response to my interpretation Farming and Aliens and as I thought it was focusing on the relationship with her bf. Although much of the dialog did not address the relationship {as I have broken down in my original post} the part about her bf came through {for me} as the focus of the dream. The literal comments in the dream were directly associated with her waking life. When examining a younger person;s dreams it should first be looked upon for those 'literal' associations, then the more symbolic symbols. She had both, one a 'literal' {as literal as dreams can get} and then the symbolic 'aliens' and farming. I believe this to be a true rule of thumb in dream interpretations of a younger person. If there are no 'literal' associations then look to the symbolic nature of the dream. But most younger person's dreams do have such waking associations and that should be the primary focus for interpretation. It does make it harder to interpret because only the dreamer knows their true life experiences and with not having a deeper symbolic message {as the aliens and farming would be addressing} it is more difficult to understand what is going on in the mind of a young person.

Rule of thumb.
A younger person is looking ahead, and at the present. They are still building an ego, have yet to experience the 'sorrows' of life, and unless there have been traumatic or memorable experiences you can best look at their dreams as addressing current waking emotional issues.

An older person is looking back. The psyche seems to have the capacity to change with time and age and is more often addressing deeper psychological issues first. Waking emotional issues in the present time usually take a secondary role in the dream structure. The baggage accumulated in life is the most often issue addressed in most dreams of an older person. The dream language will tend to be mostly symbolic with 'literal' associations being confined to very close relationships. But even then the primary focus is mot often on the deeper issues.

There is an abundance of material at the Dream Forum to resource these conclusions, and others as well. As stated previously, when an age of a child is included in a person's dream {even a younger person] most often it is addressing experiences from that time and age of the dreamer. I like to think these are important in the understanding of dreams, the ready resources that confirm {or disprove} an assumption about dreams. Of course Jung's philosophy is mostly confirmed also. But for those of us who have lesser minds, seeing is believing and what we see in the follow-up responses to our dream interpretations {those of us who participate at the Dream Forum all are Jungians at heart} provide first hand experience to the 'truths' about dreams.

Jerry

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I approach these topics with a great enthusiasm. I know despite my limited comprehension, that, as Elaine Pagels said in The Gnostic Gospels, quoting a text called Zostrianos, "I did not cease seeking a place of rest worthy of my spirit..."
Which reminds me of the inscription Jung had at his house, 'called or not, God will be there.' Which means much more than the "all good" god advanced by the orthodox in their campaign of opposition to the Dualist sects.

I am impressed at how prolific you are in your writing and responses. I feel unable to express the appropriate feelings I have towards the revelation that the individual spiritual experience is at once magical and terrifying. The great adventure seems both inside and outside, and it seems in order to have the courage to embark on either, one must embark on both. I find myself questioning my character. That is a lamentable thing for someone who has been handed the gift of humanity.

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Sam,
Any 'prolific' responses I post of late is a part on my on going evolution as outlined in my post Important Changes. It does seem that my psyche is adjusting to those subtle changes and with a 'clearing' of thought that has been so immerse in my my isolation of the past several years I find myself needing to explain my thoughts to a deeper degree. I do see this as a part of my evolution, along with my own psyche abilities to do so. Three years ago an ability to express myself in greater detail was much harder to do because of where I was in my journey. Now that I have a clear vision of where I am and where I want to go {early retirement so I can spend all my time with my dream work and web design of Myths-Dreams-Symbols} that process of putting into words my thoughts is increasing. When I am thoroughly engaged with my dream work my mind is immersed in a soulful journey of greater expression. I have much to say, much to add to MDS but it must be with the time to do so without the encumbrances of the social dragon. Unlike some who can do both I must have my space to limit the social obligations and engage my deeper soul. It is an evolution, as most things are in life, and my past impatience seems to be less a problem. That may be due to experiences with the 'hero journey' I so much trust in but is real in any sense I may look at it. As I continue my journey I often remember the words of my spiritual mentor Joseph Campbell:

Furthermore, we have not even to risk the journey alone; for the heroes of all time have gone before us; the labyrinth is thoroughly known; we have only to follow the thread of the hero-path. And where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence; where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.

I share your enthusiasm even more today than ever before. What is worthy of my spirit, of spirit itself, I believe to be the spiritual quest for knowledge, inner and outer, that will ultimately better serve mankind. Whether it be my ramblings about the creative self, or the true creative adventures of the great artist, poet, writer, whatever the art, it is the giving from the soul that reaches out to others, sharing that creative Self so others may find relief from personal suffering. The Holy Grail in my thinking is the soul and the Grail in life is indeed creative, and thus spiritual because it is a sharing with others what one may possess creatively.

We're so engaged in doing things to achieve purposes of outer value that we forget the inner value, the rapture that is associated with being alive, is what it is all about...Campbell

When we discover and access that creative self I believe that is that true inner value to what Campbell speaks of. Being alive, finding meaning in the individual life, that is where life begins and suffering ends. Not only for the individual but anyone who shares in that creativity.
One last Campbell quote I feel fits with this discussion:

People say that what we're seeking is a meaning for life.
I don't think that's what we're really seeking.
I think that what we're seeking is an experience of being alive,
so that we actually feel the rapture of being alive.

The two things that make me most feel alive is being in nature {waterfalls are a great spiritual retreat for me} and participating in those creative endeavors I have learned I possess through this process of the Hero Journey.

You and I are fortunate to have discovered Campbell, Jung and all those other 'spiritual' teachers who taken it om themselves to share what they have learned. And from the dictates of the hero monomyth, we too must share what we learn in our individual journey to Individuation.

Jerry

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Here are my thoughts on "Farming and Aliens". Take them for what they may be worth:

In my dream the world was going to end and there were a group of women who were aliens in human bodies that came to tell about the world ending. No body believed them but about 3 people. My grandma my sister myself.

For most in their early 20s, like teenagers, the *world* is a fairly well defined thing that usually consists of family, friends, school/work, and possibly some nebulous future plans. This dreamer sees at least unconsciously that her known world is going to change dramatically (the old world coming to an end). The presence of the grandmother, sister, and herself may symbolize the 3 stages of woman: girl, mother/wife, and crone. This totality of womanhood recognizes that external forces (the aliens) are giving her a warning that this change is coming.

The women/aliens idea to be able to survive after the world ended was to keep a piece of farm land safe by a special alien blanket they were able to make and was invisible to "non believers" eyes. So I was able to see it since I was helping to make it.

Farmland indicates growth, and this may be the advice the dream is giving her - to keep an area in her life just for herself to facilitate continued growth. But in order to hide that special place of nurturing, she must use something external to herself to conceal it. Is there an aspect of, or person in her life that wants her to remain childlike?

whole town ended up getting drunk and going to our perfect field and pouring weed eater on our corn stalks that had already grown and it started to die before we were able to finish the blanket.

A whole town? Perhaps her whole family/friends, etc. are trying to hold her back from growth?

We hurried to get the corn to grow back from the weed eater and the trampling that had been done to it. We are able to get the corn back to normal before the world ends and the aliens and the 3 of us had taken pictures here and there of all of us and our work.

She is stuggling to maintain her personal growth, and is enjoying success. That photos are being taken indicates that this success is something she will need to remember in the future.

The last night before the world was supposed to end I was with my current boyfriend and I was inviting a neighbor over to hang out with me because my boyfriend didn't want to hang out with us because he didnt know the person which is how he is in real life.

This may indicate a fragile animus that really has no idea yet of its function in her life. She is seeking a model though by asking the the neighbor to spend time with her.

The neighbor turned out to be a guy from work I am friends with and we were playing dress up and he was talking about how comfortable he is around me and how his parents were wondering if he got nervous before he came over to my place or if he would shave ( he is very clean cut) he said no to them about these things. He is actually recently engaged so he was talking about that and us just hanging out, and the whole time my boyfriend is sitting all the way across this huge room in the corner in a chair just watching. I don't feel weird about him doing this its almost as if I am use to him being like this and have just become accustom to it.

Work is providing the impetus for growth by giving her and the model animus an opportunity to role play (dressing up). Her real animus is watching the play perhaps to get an idea of how to function in her life. That the neighbor is engaged could be an attempt to reassure the animus that she wants to work with it, and not some fantasy. Shaving (cutting off obvious masculine feature) may also be another reassurance that the fantasy animus will not supplant the real animus.

Later that night the whole town was having a party and the aliens and the 3 or us had been getting our things together at the party ( im guessing the party was being taken place at a town hall or something but we all lived up stairs)

Her known world is continuing life as before, not realizing that she is growing away from that more juvenile stage. This I think is indicated by her totality living upstairs in the more cerebral/spiritual plane.

We got our pictures together secretly and all of the other things we wanted and hid them away in a monte carlo ( which is the car I have)

Her soul-chariot recieves and conceals the memories of hard-won successes from her old world.

We had cards on a table that meant something to the aliens and a few drunk people at the party tried taking them to buy them we had to hide the cards too

The external feminine values the chances she is taking, but this information has to be hidden as well.

over i was sitting at the bar at the party and sat with one of the aliens who didn't know who I was for some reason after all this time we had spent together and I didn't know her either, she asked me if I would like to get a drink i went back and forth thinking about it and eventually did. And that was it.

Having a drink together may indicate that she is getting comfortable with some aspect of the external feminine.

Summary: I think this is a healthy young woman who wants very much to grow up and is actively taking steps to do so. The people she is familiar with however probably don't want to see her change and may be actively discouraging her from growth. Nevertheless, growth is occurring, but she must hide it from them, and also to shield her still-vulnerable and fragile animus. I have no doubt she will accomplish her growth-mission.

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