Hello,Dreamers!

This morning I dreamt I was at a party in a second story apartment. It was fun and lively. I decided to leave and as I walk down a street through a shopping district (that is sort of quaint, small-townish)I see a woman with dark hair and a pair of dark glasses fall to the ground in what appears to be an epileptic fit. She rolls towards me. She is stiff as a board. I remove her glasses, roll her on her side so her back is to me (so I can stabilize her) and place my left hand under her head. I see another young woman nearby. I ask her to put her hand where mine is so I can do energy work on the woman who is on the ground. She does. I place my left thumb over her third eye, and attempt to place my right hand over her navel, but she doesn't like this and shoos my hand away. So I hold this hand in the field a few inches above her navel. We stay this way for awhile. Then she seems to relax a little bit.

I then head back to the party, and a few of my friends are downstairs waiting for me. One is a friend named PK, who is a fantastic artist and energy healer. He is congratulating me on what a fine job I'd done. We carry the woman upstairs to the party. She is sitting in a chair next to a bed. Someone says we shouldn't trust her because she stole a car. But somehow I know this car is parked behind the building--as if maybe she'd stolen it as a prank and simply parked it nearby in a different spot.

A man at the party starts to think she is possessed because she will not speak. Occassionally she opens her eyes but won't make eye contact. She looks unusual, as if she is part human being and part a box. He starts to do "tests" of some sort to see if she might be possessed. After awhile more and more people leave the party. Eventually I'm the only one left. I see him doing something to her and I see fruit flies flying out from around her. I decide to get out of there. I don't know where this is going, but it doesn't look good to me. So I put on my shoes (which, for some reason, is awkward) and go back down the stairs.

As I'm walking away I feel guilty because I fear this man will be dead by morning, because I think he's playing with fire. I tell myself I should go back and at least get his journal so I can read it and try to understand why he is doing this. But instead I start to run home. I realize I'm very tired, and I don't remember where I parked the car. I'm so tired I can't even focus on the question. Then I remember my husband John had left the party earlier. Maybe he'd driven home already. So I dediced to run home, look in the garage to see if the car is there. If it's not, I'll ask him to help me remember where I parked it.

Just a few comments that might help. I am working with a couple (as a psychotherapist) whom I saw last night. The wife, when she is very emotional, tends to shut down. It's very hard to read her. She describes the process as locking things in a box. They are seeing me because of sexual intimacy issues. Also, regarding PK, he was born a hermaphodite, although through hormones he has identified fully as a male, and as heterosexual and is married. Even so, he has great compassion for the transgender community and the issues they face. I thought maybe that was significant b/c it might be linked to the similarity between the epileptic woman and my client.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 53, chicago, il

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Rose,
There is a real possibility the dream is not only addressing issues you are confronting with the patients you are counseling but also a blockage that prevents achievement of some aspect in your life {your dreams are addressing your emotional issues and any associations with the couple would be secondary}. Of course the primary intent of the dream is to address your emotional conflicts with the counseling aspect being in association with your emotions. Here is what I get from the dream before reading your comments about the counseling of the couple.

I believe the reference to the 'third eye' most reveals what this dream is trying to address. In Eastern and Western spiritual traditions the 'third eye' refers to the inner realms and spaces of higher consciousness. Dreams are also a 'third eye', looking into the inner spaces of the unconscious realm.

There is also the matter of emotions {epilepsy}. Something has disrupted some vital aspect of your normal life {party in a second floor apartment}. Something that prevents balance {naval - the center of balance} in the deepest senses of your psyche> There is a real need to stabilize yourself to get back in balance.

Has there been a disruption in your journey or life? A blockage of creative juices perhaps? The cause may be emotional issues that have stolen your energies. It may even involve disruption of abilities having to do with your profession.

There does seem to be an integration of the issues from the couple you are counseling. The dream comment "she is part human being and part a box" could be addressing intimacy problems {the box being a sexual reference to the vagina}. This part of her is 'possessed' and unable to 'speak. The guilt you feel in the dream may be addressing real guilt due to your own emotional issues, perhaps to do with your husband.

The first rule that is set in stone about dreams is your dreams are about you. You are tired for some emotional reason and it may be affecting your ability to concentrate on those responsibilities you feel most important {this may be the creative juices I mentioned}. Something has interpreted your normal positive life {party} and is draining you emotionally. There may be associations to the couple you are counseling to your own life. The inclusion of such possibilities would be to point to aspects of your own life, since your dreams are about you.

The dream seems unusual on the surface because of the associations that may fit with the couple you are counseling. For someone who is not a 'Jungian' the emphasis would seem to be on that couple's issues. But for someone like myself who believes in the philosophies of Jungian psyche and who has first hand experience working with dreams, I see the couple in an association to your life. Your dreams are addressing your emotional issues first, with the secondary references to the couple being in support of those personal emotional conflicts. This is the method a Jungian approach to dreams would follow.

Since dreams can only offer a periphery to to what the emotional issues are in the dreamer's life, it is left up to the dreamer to tie everything together and recognize the waking associations. Since you are a psychologist I am confident that will not be a difficult task for you to do. Assume of course that Jung is right in his approach to dreams.

Jerry

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Rose,
I referred to you as a psychologist in my original post. Of course you said you were working as a psychotherapist and I should have restated that instead of assuming you were a psychologist. Not that it makes any difference.

I was intrigued by your dream and the associations with the couple you are counseling. I must mention if you were in your 20s or early 30s I would probably looked at the dream a bit different. Not that the dream characters change in their roles representing the dreamer but the fact in early years there is still that ego development and a younger person's dreams would be reflecting as much on that as it would with deeper emotional issues {since younger people have yet to accumulate the emotional baggage of an older person}. Younger people are looking forward whereas an older person tends to look back {with the issue of 'meaning in life' creeping into the equation}. And of course death and physical health become real issues when you are older, whereas a younger person often thinks them-self as being indestructible.

Third Eye Chakra The Third Eye Chakra, located just above the centre point between the eyebrows. It spins extremely fast, and is associated with the colour Indigo. It is the centre of visual, psychic and intuitive perception, and its’ attributes are clairvoyance, memory, dreams and vision. So we are now in the realms of the intangible

There are some interesting symbols in your dream that can be labeled as mystical, metaphysical or perhaps mythological. The 'third eye' covered by the 'left' thumb and the attempt to cover the naval may represent the need for balance and without the use of an 'intuitive' mind {'third eye' there can be no real balance {'navel- the center of the body}. I do believe this is directed at those feminine powers of intuitiveness, perception and vision {all of which are powerful tools to possess when working as a psychotherapist}. I will comment some more after you post a follow-up. I'm interested in your response since there is that element of waking life experiences that is in the dream. How they associate with your life would be of an interest, both to you personally as well as the role it plays as a function of the dream.

Jerry

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Hi Jerry,

Thanks for your feedback on my dream, and I'm glad it intrigued you. I have a different perspective on the third eye/navel hold. In my training as an energy medicine practitioner, we hold those two points to stimulate a flow of energy between the central and governing meridians. These meridians are responsible for, among other things, distributing yin and yang chi to all the meridians. When they connect they create deep yin/yang balance...which is just the opposite, I think, of what you were saying.

I was honestly surprised I was enjoying the party so much in this dream. I'm actually an introvert, and don't normally like parties all that much. But this was fun, and that was a nice experience. I was wondering what it might mean that it was on the second floor, in terms of what level of consciousness I was accessing.

I think you are right that this couple is mirroring similar issues in my marriage. However, the difference is that I see my spouse as a huge help and partner, whereas this couple unfortunately doesn't have that strength. I wasn't sure what to make of the car being lost. Should I assume the woman I was helping was the one who stole it in the first place? Am I getting ready to rely more on my husband in that I'm reaching out to him for help in solving the problem of the lost car. And what the heck is that lost car, anyway?

OK, gotta blast. Await your reply,
Rose

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Rose,
Your interpretation of energies of two points that stimulate the flow of energy between the central and governing medians is not that different from the energies I mentioned in my last post. If you will notice in the graphic the energies are listed in order from bottom to the top. One must bring 'up' this flow of energy to become a whole person. Leaving the elementary 'human' desires and moving to a higher aspect of being. From the alimentation aspect to the heart and finally to the realizations of Self {the top of the chart}. This 'way' to self individualization can be seen in Campbell's video series 'Mythos' and explained in detail in the 'Transformation of Myth Through Time' video 'Kundalini Yoga' or from the Mythos series 'The Way to Illumination - Kundalini yoga and the seven chakras.

Note: These marvelous videos on Campbell are available at Youtube and/or MySpace and are posted by R-CANE-1. He has several other videos that many of you will find most interesting including 'Alan Watts - Conversation With Myself. You will also find at this link a list of other videos by R-Cane including Campbell's Transformation videos as well as the six 'The Power of Myth' and 'Mythos' videos.
{the Mythos videos are a remake of the 'Transformations of Myth Through Time' series of videos}

I will add more comments about your dream later in the day.

Jerry

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Rose,
My position from the beginning, and as always, was the dream was addressing similarities in the two relationships. To what degree was unknown but as a rule of thumb, which is pretty much cast in stone {suggesting it is empirical beyond Jung's theories}, the dream is about you with the experiences of others as an association to your emotional experiences. Knowing that association does exist we can look deeper into the dream and perhaps ascertain more about your emotional life {which dreams do for someone who has experience in dream interpretation}, whether it be conscious or unconscious.

It is not unusual for a trained eye in dreams to know more about the emotional life of a dreamer than does the dreamer, especially if there are repressed issues

In your dream, the first paragraph, if you put yourself in place of the woman with dark hair {unconscious thinking/attitudes} and dark glasses {seeing through unconscious lens} then you may realize associations in the dream to your waking life. She is you. You and a particular set of emotional experiences that are in conflict/unresolved.
There is a possibility of learning something new because of these emotional conflicts, the dream helping you to realize something about yourself that will ultimately be beneficial. The younger woman, also you, and perhaps with a relationship with your female 'patient', is providing assistance in a 'metaphysical' sort of way, the third eye, the dream delving into the unconscious and seeing what is really there.

One other 'rule of thumb cast in gold' is the dream is first and foremost objective and not burdened with ego bias. Whereas the ego centric personality may perceive things one way, the dream sees it as it really is.

Noteworthy may be you were in a place where you felt comfortable, and left it {in a second story apartment. It was fun and lively}. You began shopping, searching for something else. Here is where you discovered this other aspect of yourself, the woman with dark hair and dark sunglasses. There may be waking life associations that are discernible related to that 'shopping'.

You return to the original place of comfort, a place where creativity and healing is prevalent {often the two go together}. Part of that has been either 'seemingly' taken away or temporarily lost. I get the impression this may have to do with abilities association with your profession as a psychotherapist. Something has gotten in the way, something emotional that may have created a 'blockage' of some sort. Perhaps the relationship of the counseled couple unconsciously stimulated associations of 'similarities' to your own relationship with your husband. Even while in your comfort zone there is conflict.

PK. Both male and female. Opposites. But also a formula for balance.

Because the 'she' in your dream is not named, then she would be thought of as an aspect of you. Even when named that is usually true but since it is not named it may point to unconscious realizations that are not known, accepted or not rejected. What possesses you? What emotions are you 'unwilling to make eye contact'? The 'she' is probably associated with the counseled woman, perhaps the sessions with the couple being the catalyst not only for the dream but for unresolved issues in your life.

Then there is the masculine. Probably associated with the animus.
I'm so tired I can't even focus on the question. Is there a waking experience that fits here?
Something has been misplaced, some part of you {car}. To get it back may require discipline {a masculine quality}. You are without John. That is where you see your car being parked. And he is the to answer the question.

I didn't break down every symbol but I believe I got the most important ones. Of course I tend to sense aspects beyond the symbols and that sense is usually as right as there is an interpreting the individual symbols. You can over interpret if not careful.

I do believe we can get away from the dream being so much about the counseled couple. Their relationship is something about shared, but not necessarily the same {as you stated}. Pk, the opposites, and from a place that is healing.

A lot to think about. I will await your response.

Jerry

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Hi Jerry,

Yes, I'm well aware of the relationship between what I shared about Central/Governing meridians and the chakras and kundalini energy. What I meant to say is that we differ in our interpretations of what I was doing when I held the forehead and the navel. You suggested it was a possible suppression of energies, whereas I see it as a positive attempt to nurture the balance of masculine and feminine energies.

As for being too tired to answer the question, it is true that in my waking life I have been busy to the point of exhaustion lately. Sleeping like a log. I'm not complaining about that! I like the way you put it, though, that I am too tired to answer the question. Could I shorten that to "too tired to answer the quest?" Meaning, I'm too tired to continue questing on my own, that my yin energies are depleted (my persona), and need the support of my yang/masculine/animus energies to carry on?

I've always seen cars as symbols of how we move through the world. The car in this dream was our family car--our only car, actually--and represents one of the ways John and I have to work together, share and compromise to make our life together flow more easily.

On the whole, I'm finding this dream more and more positive.

Thank you for the YouTube links to the videos. It's amazing what you can find there!

Blessings, Rose

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Rose,
My take on the chakras could be construed as a negative approach but my primary point was that the flows of energy were more alike than different. The energies we speak of are derived from philosophies of the East. It is relatively recent that Western societies have began to accept these Eastern philosophies as real and true. As you stated in your post, there is a 'relationship between what I shared about Central/Governing meridians and the chakras and kundalini energy'. That was what I meant to advance in my post on the chakras. Not so much to inform you as to enlighten others who may not know of the relationship. The Dream Forum is a learning place for all of us and although there are the 'regulars' who probably are aware of the Kundalini, many visitors are not acquainted with the concept.

As for the positive/negative possibilities, only the dreamer can discern that. In most dreams the negative conflicts are the primary focus of the dream. And often when there are those positive aspects there are also negative aspects also. But in the final assessment it is left to the dreamer to determine what the symbolic meaning is focused on. If it fits then it most likely is true.

My 'intrigued' interest in your dream was related to whether the dream was actually addressing aspects having to do with your life, and not focusing on the conflicts having to do with the couple you are counseling. The dream was about you and not 'them'. If you had posted something different other than the possibilities the two relationships had similarities, I would have been dumbfounded. There are so few instances where that is even a question of contention. Needless to say I am relieved that you also can associate aspects of your life to that of the couple you are counseling. The fact you as a psychotherapist and was able to recognize and accept the similarities only strengthens the position that the dream is about the dreamer.

The one great thing about the Dream Forum is it has let me use 'Jungian{*' theories of dream interpretation to test those fundamental positions he had proposed about the dream. As I stated previously there are a few rules 'set in stone' that are standards in using Jungian psyche to interpret dreams. The primary rule is the dream is speaking to the dreamer's emotions and not to someone else {except to denote what may be associated to the dreamer's life}. The dream is about the dreamer. That is something that has proven to be a constant in my assessment of the dream and supported by the follow-up responses provided by the dreamer. The thousands of posted dreams, responses, and comments have been a great tool in understanding how the dream functions. And with a road map provided by Jung to understanding dreams we are able to discern what is true and what is not in his positions. It is not surprising, at least to me and other 'jungians' that what he exposed is pretty much 'right on'.
At least that is my 'biased' opinion.

Strike that. That is my 'learned' experience.

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* 'Jungian' is used to denote the philosophies of Carl Jung {26 July 1875 – 6 June 1961} and not to promote the man as a saint. As with Joseph Campbell {March 26, 1904 – October 30, 1987}, the person I address as my spiritual teacher, both were merely men, as great as they were. There is not a fixation on my part as to either of them as being anything other than great minds. They are teachers. Not gurus but Master teachers.

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On the subject of gurus. Here is part of an interview with Michael Toms {New Dimensions radio in San Francisco} with Campbell on that subject.

TOMS: What about the desire to follow a guru? We see religions and cults based on the teacher-disciple relationship flourishing everywhere.

CAMPBELL: I think that is bad news. I really do think you can take clues from teachers – I know you can. But, you see, the traditional Oriental idea is that the student should submit absolutely to the
teacher. The guru actually assumes responsibility for the student’s moral life, and this is total giving. I don’t think that’s quite proper for a Western person. One of the big spiritual truths for the West is that each of us is a unique creature, and consequently has a unique path....read more

Jerry

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Hi Jerry,

I had another dream last night which I'm about to post that I think is a follow-up in some ways to this dream. Just wanted to give you a heads-up here!

I appreciate all you do here, Jerry. It's a fantastic service.

Rose

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