Beautiful. Abundantly evident that the burgeoning of the new world of the humanmyth has vitalized you. I read, myth is something that is not true on the outside, but true on the inside. I also read jung say that if you have in yourself something that is a particularly bad enemy you know that you have something particularly good on the other side.

I have a question for you, that came to mind. I was hooked by Campbell and Jung at a young age, about 18 or 19. I was very very keen on them for some time, and would always return to this subject throughout the years of outward adventure and necessity. Over the last couple years, as my life has become more stable, I have turned with even more enthusiasm to this school of thought. As I am still too young to be issuing profundities, the future must be considered as completely unknown to me. I may one day become ice cold to the whole subject. Yet looking back, and conjecturing foreward, this whole world of psyche and psyche of world, it feels as if I have been searching for the same thing the whole time. At times when I wasn't, there was and is usually some gnawing at my bones, some aching that was always so merciless. In the last couple of years I have begun to add to it notions of competence and intelligence which has made it endurable and even a strangely special. My question for you is, did you always sense your life leading up to who you are and have become? Was there a thread of continuity where you can say that it was only a matter of course that you would become so steeped in the atman. Perhaps science and religion have matched the demands of the modern consciousness and finally given us something to be bothered with.

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Sam,
These are some good questions you ask and the description of your encounters with Campbell and Jung are definitely applicable to how to use their insights in your future. I have started a response but my time is short this morning to insure a qualified answer. Choosing the proper words is most important. I will do my best to answer your post later today.

I do hope such conversations become the norm at the Dream Forum since they are as important to understanding the psyche as is the dream. It is the psychology that we are wanting to get to and there are many elements to that process besides merely interpreting our dreams. Understanding oneself takes a lot of effort but the knowledge offered by Campbell and Jung provides more than adequate avenues to that understanding. The so called 'secret knowledge' is a psychological recognition and both Campbell and Jung were masters of the psyche. I hope to stir you in that direction especially since you have already invested the time to get to know these two great masters. You are at that age when their message can make a huge difference in your life. Possibly a matter ofa balanced, harmonious life as opposed to the ordinary, conflictive life most people live. Take my word, the later is not acceptable for anyone who has a 'mind' for the greater possibilities. And I know you have such a mind.

Jerry

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Sam,
I have not forgotten my promise to comment further on your questions. They are important. I am still working on editing my comments {I have them in Word} and will post them this weekend. I will contact you when I do.

Jerry

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Thanks Jerry, oh, I am wondering if I need to have a masters degree in clinical psychology first before I can attend a cg jung alnalytical training school. What do you know about this, or think about such an idea? I'm just starting to get a little restless, I may be a few years immature as well, but who knows.

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Sam,
To best determine the qualifications for attending a school the for study of Jung's analytical psychology go to this web page Jungian Oriented Graduate Programs. It has a list of schools that may be closest to you.

Jerry

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Ok, I'll look at this, it appears you need to have a masters degree at least to be in the institute of analytical psychology. I don't know if I have that much time, but I'm gonna look at some possibilities. Thanks for the link.

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Sam,
If it is something that you really feel important, go for it. To do it just to be doing it may not be a good use of your time. Have you discovered a deep interest in Jung to the point getting into the field of analytical psychology fits a deep desire? There are many avenues you can take to fill such a desire. I took the path of self education and of course the MDS web site and the Dream Forum. It is my bliss and it took some time after discovering Jung to realize it. Discovery comes first. The journey would then become how to achieve the bliss.

Jerry

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I do have a deep desire to continue to understand the universal psyche. I think I am also trying to assert my power instinct into the world where I feel less than accomplished. I just don't know how to go about doing it. Part of that power drive is a desire simply for a larger income where I could entertain thoughts of a mortgage and health insurance for my family of three. Even through my corporate health ins. policy, to add my wife to my plan is an extra 300/month. At 32k/year, we just can't afford it. Yet even if I were making 40k, an income I would be very happy with for a while, I wouldn't consider my job as the "summit of my long career" (ray davies, the Kinks).

The idea you mentioned that there are many avenues you can take to fill the desire of your bliss is an idea I've been with for a while. To provide an asthetic service to people, I think, is my general desire, something that reaches beyond just the basic needs of people that already have much convenience in life in regards to materiality and the just distribution of goods.

Here is a part of the kinks' song, a little bit of emotion:

People learn their lines/they act out their parts
They talk on cue/but it's got no heart
It's all on the surface/It's all contrived
They're scared to come out/Somehow they've got to survive

Life has so many basic demands and needs, from keeping the lawn watered and mowed, to cleaning house and babysitting. Sometimes it feels like there is no time to worship that superior creative force inside, and that the relentless call to service is a sacrilege and its only function beyond gross material service is to choke the flood of a larger and more inspired desire to give.

The world is astounding, I want to serve it, I can see it's superiority over me, I can see my reflection in its boundlessness. I am astonished by how actively the gods are engaged in living through us, and us through them. How is it that we all live with the gods, but we don't have the scientific and intellectual honesty to acknowledge them/it/Her/Him.

Anyway, I'm only starting to pry my eyes open and wake up to the world, I have much experiencing to do. I'll see where that takes me. Thanks Jerry

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Hi Sam and Jerry

The question you ask about whether there has always been an urge towards let me call it the spiritual life is really interesting.

I have always had that urge although I didn't know it.

I can first remember coming slightly awake when I was about eight. One beautiful day in summer I was walking by myself through a field with chest high grass. As I walked I startled up literally hundreds of butterflies (this was 1948 and before DDT was widely used. You have no idea how beautiful the world was before DDT) and I stopped and stared up into the cloud of butterflies above and around me ... and I knew! I had no idea what it was I knew, but I had discovered there was something "other".

Ever since then, that gift from the gods has gently pushed me to understand. I am not there yet but I think I am getting closer.

In peace ...

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Sam,
Again, thanks for sharing. When we understand the personal experiences of the dreamer, or in this case the person, we have a clearer view of the possibilities. I see your responses providing a clearer view of your possibilities.

Quote, " Part of that power drive is a desire simply for a larger income". Joseph Campbell often stated, and this is one discipline I live by, is 'if you do it for the money you are off your path. If you do it to follow your bliss you put yourself on a kind of track that has been all along. The greatest difficulty in living the hero/heroine journey is to 'stay the path'. There will many, many times when you will 'fall short'. But if you will go back the basic fundamentals of the 'hero journey' {Campbell's
hero questMonomyth} you will always return to that path and reap the rewards from it.

Quote, "To provide an aesthetic service to people, I think, is my general desire".

One has to learn what their bliss is, must know what it is that touches the soul. I think more time is needed to investigate the possibilities to your blissful path. At 34 you are just beginning those years of 'transition' and realizations take time. The good news is you have discovered early there is that hero path. Most never do.

"Life has so many basic demands and needs". This is the social dragon I am always complaining about. The fulfillment of ones bliss comes when the social dragon no longer has control. At this period of my life I must endure the responsibilities {something I have chosen to do, primarily to assist my son as he elevates his life to a firm foundation} of managing the 'family' business and reduce my 'bliss to a lesser role in my routine. But I have plans. In two years I will be eligible for early retirement and hopefully a full time devotion to my dreamwork. That would be the fulfillment of my bliss. That would be the ultimate goal of the hero journey.

The dragon is persistant, especially in today's world where materialism is the ultimate god. Joseph Campbell even said as much {and this was in the late 80s} in an interview with Michael Toms. And Campbell's directive to achieving bliss can be found in this statement about Nirvana; 'Nirvana is a psychological state of mind and is the condition that comes when you’re not compelled by desire or by fear or by social commitments.' So simple to say,so very hard to follow.

"Anyway, I'm only starting to pry my eyes open and wake up to the world, I have much experiencing to do. I'll see where that takes me."
This statement speaks well of your wisdom to realize where you are in life. One benefit that comes with growing older. Wisdom. At least it should be that way.
For you and I it is, and will be.

Jery

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Sam,
Finally, my response to your post. Hopefully I have edited it so there is good understanding to what I wish to convey. A clear mind to the world of the inner world is often hard to access when there are so many other demands on my mental faculties, limited as they are.

I was caught by my first experience with Campbell and have lived there ever since. I was 42 when that happened. It was as if that thing I was searching for suddenly appeared. I immediately recognized it and it has been the guiding force in my life ever since. Psychologically, and unconsciously, I knew there was a void, I just didn't know what it was. And although the introduction of Campbell into my life didn't immediately solve my addition to the ego world, it was the beginning to understanding those unconscious forces that pushed in a destructive direction {childhood experiences being the primary stimuli}. I believe we all possess an ability to recognize the source of our psyche conflicts since it is from those early life experiences that make up who we become later in life. We need only 'cross paths' with the proper 'authority' to fully understand the influences. That is where synchronicity has a role. Unfortunately most let those infrequent opportunities pass them by. It is the social/material 'dragons' that are the untamed controlling agents in most people's life and the root to many of the psychological ills. Add to that the personal emotional conflicts within the psyche {most self created} and you begin to see why the world is so 'messed up'. As Joseph Campbell once said in an interview with Michael Toms, 'just look around, the world is falling to pieces'.


You are still within those years of looking forward to completely understand the full mechanics of how this message can assist you. I was there for many years during my forties, knowing enough to think I 'knew' when in fact I didn't know {Campbell's often quoted proverb,' He who knows doesn't know. He who doesn't know knows'}. The good news is you have begun that difficult task of knowing who they are, the inward journey. Doing this requires one to go past the temporal wants and needs of the material world and focus on the 'inner' life. This is a psychology of the self, Jung's Individuation Process {there are other paths that may provide the same results but few I can think of that do the job so thoroughly}. The tendency in the first half of life is to focus on the material world {building a career, raising a family, etc.}. But when 40 looms on the horizon the focus changes.


As you age life begins to take turns that are so different than you were younger. The subject of death slowly creeps into the equation. The mid-life thing becomes a search for meaning and a validation of ones life. It becomes more and more a psychological thing and less a focus on material worth and ego building. This is the norm for all of us and of course was a part of my evolution as well. It often takes an occurrence of outside forces to open the eyes to what is occurring, what is real. And when you do begin to see clearly, and most people never do, you realize it is psychological first and foremost. Because Campbell and Jung are all about this psychological journey {myths are the universal stories of those different patterns of psychological behavior, the many different 'collective' journeys}, they offer solutions to how to confront, and live with these changes. Those of us who take a deep look within begin to understand the process of this 'hero journey', the psychological path that will bring about balance and harmony, if it is followed. The real task is staying the course to the hero path. The dragons of society, the demons within, constantly challenge the psyche. It requires Discipline and that is something so few people lack. Addition to the material world, to ego self, are the primary foes and they are well armed. Society, with its patriarchal ground, will not let go easily. This is the reality we face every morning and the tasks that confront us every day. Slaying the dragon is not a one day affair. It is a life long endeavor.

The self has to undergo a death of ego {Campbell said a complete annihilation}, just as the myth of Jesus on the cross represents a metaphor for the individual life. To reach that place in life does require the greatest of hero deeds. But to ascend to that highest mountain is to realize a balanced and harmonious life. I believe unconsciously we all know this, it is a basic pattern inherent in all human life. Consciously, well, those inherent patterns are so governed by the outer material world of ego there is little chance to focus on the inner life, that part of us that 'intuitively' knows and understands. 'We must say yes to life' and realize there is suffering in all life no matter how great the bounties of the hero journey. This is the basic message of Buddhism.

Buddhism is a natural religion; it does not violate either mind or body. Its ethics closely approximate the Natural Law. The Buddha became cognizant of how men are born and die according to their good and evil actions, according to their self-created Karma {or the consequence of meritorious and demeritorious deeds}.



There is so much more to be said about the hero path and journey. But that would require more space than I could ever find. And more words than I could ever speak. The task becomes yours to take, your journey must be your own. But if you abide by those natural laws where ego is but a minute part, and take up the mantle of the spiritual deed, I believe you and anyone else who has the discipline can become a hero/heroine in their own life. There will be many difficult times {the FIRST Buddhist saying 'life is full of sorrow'} but the rewards will be much more bountiful. This is the underlying message from Campbell, the psychology of Jung.
Jerry