Dream Analysis/Interpretation by Dream Analyst
Gerald Gifford {at Forum #1}

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can't remember

I have had this dream as often as every day for weeks and can trigger it simply by thinking about it for only a moment during the day. It's been happening for as long as the past few years maybe even much longer.
As frequent as it is when I wake up I can remember almost nothing about it, only the setting and ambiance, though very well.
The setting covers a very large area, from a deep forest, to mountains of dust/dirt to a very large, almost castl-esq old building.
One place that stands out, are two massive walls acting as a bridge between two areas which are actually giant bookshelves with millions of books. ( Strange becuase the rest of the world is perfectly realistic.)
It always takes place at night. It's usually silent. The mood is dark and a little gloomy. It's full of chaos and constant fighting and with it death. All of which take place just as quietly as the world itself. There's an air of uncertainty, distrust, and I am constantly on guard, but not fear. It's as if I'v just grown accustomed to the world to the point that I consider it 'home',

Many of the minor people change, but one or two are always the same. One is the man with white-hair whom I now realize has been in a good 99% of all my dreams.

I have a very small grasp of what is going on and it ranges from a 'game' to a full blown war.
I say 'game' in quotations because it is very dark, most are dead by the end.
I can never recall which 'side' I'm on. I am usually alone, but it's either becuase everyone else has died or I have just gone on my own by choice.
I vaguely recall there being a 'spy' involved whether the spy is me or I have been betrayed by the spy I can't recall and the only constant is to stay alive.
There is a point to this 'game/war'. I know that it has to with finding something, and or keeping it from the other side, what 'it' is the biggest mystery of this dream. It may even be a person for all I know.

It just occurred to me today, that I have actually been having some form of this dream since I was very little. Oddly enough, I recall it more clearly. The setting was the same, only instead of the darkest night, it was a very red sunset and the sense of 'uncertainty' terrified me so that I considered it a nightmare.
The image of the white-haired man was more vivid too. I don't think he is a friend or enemy as he seems to wait on the 'sidelines' and show up occasionally. Sometimes to help, sometimes to harm, but almost always knows exactly what is going on and usually gives me information, vague as it may be.

I know that seems like a lot of detail but the dream itself is so 'huge' I guess it really doesn't even scratch the surface.

Guess my questions are
What (is this dream about? Aret here any aspects you pick apart?)
Why ( can't I remember something so frequent)
How ( can I force myself to remember?)
The 'who' is not a concern as he is always there and I've just grown used to his presence.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 27 Seattle

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} female

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Re: can't remember

Kaze,
My sense is there are deeper issues you need to examine since there does seem to be conflicting issues involved in your life {It's full of chaos and constant fighting and with it death}. If you see it as a nightmare that alone suggests deeper issues. If these dreams go back to childhood I suggest an examinatiuon of that period of time. Willing to confront such issues may be the problem. I suggest you consider seeing a psychologist to get to those possibilities.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

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Re: can't remember

Meh, here I thought my dreams were awesome and it turns out I'm just crazy. How disappointing.

Like I said I've seen a few psychologists but little has come from it. This is getting into an entirely different area you can't help me with but thanks for your honesty.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 27 Seattle

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Re: can't remember

Kaze,

It may be that little has come from your meetings with the psychologists because of the defense mechanism that says, "I am okay," when really you are not (as you yourself have indicated you have a tendency to do). It could be that these dreams are repeatedly telling you that things really are not okay... Until you can see/recognize these issues (whatever they may be, apparently stemming from your childhood) in your own self and bring these issues/concerns forward to a psychologist, you give them little to work with. One has to be willing to receive help, willing to put their issues on the table, so to speak. It takes courage and honesty with one's self. Needing the help of a mental health professional does not mean one is crazy. That fallacy (mistaken belief that you hold) itself can be part of what keeps you saying, "I am okay."

Best,

Clarity

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 44, USA

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Femaile

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Re: can't remember

It is actually everyone else who tells I am not, or should not be okay.

I know that my childhood was not normal ( I mean different, not the typical 'I wasn't allowed to do what I wanted' way)
I truly thought that it didn't effect me. I have everyone around me telling me how 'traumatized' I must be, but I really don't feel that way.
I now realize that yes, it has effected me but not to the extent that everyone is telling me.
Could that itself be the problem?
As I said my dreams only frightened me when I was little. I am content in that world now. I'm not sure how much significance that has.

Still, the biggest question here is why would a dream be so difficult to remember?

BTW I realize that no one here is my psychologist so if I get too 'personal' or just plain annoying, tell me so. But I feel that the insight I get here is just as important as my psychologist since he doesn't care about dreams.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 27 Seattle

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} female

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Re: can't remember

The psyche reacts in powerful ways to protect one from things that are too difficult to bear at a young age. The very defense mechanisms that became operative, though well-serving years ago, become the obstacles that must be overcome in present time. Difficulty in remembering may be showing just that - "difficulty in remembering" - that which was troubling. Regardless of the persona one wears (your saying it does not trouble you today), if there are issues not dealt with, they remain needing resolution.
Denial is a major protective coping mechanism. This is not to be seen as a negative.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 44, USA

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Re: can't remember

I was afraid that was the answer. I actually did I a lot of thinking about it yesterday. I seemed to have gotten somewhere but int the ended it went full circle to me simply not caring 'why'.

It reminds of a Greek tragedy, in a way. My entire life I thought " I WONT let this affect me, I wont make it part of who I am'
Of coarse, that thought itself became my obsession. To where ' not letting it consume me' was the thing that has consumed me. ( That makes sense right?
It then occurred to me that I simply didn't deal with them by convincing myself there was nothing TO deal with it. That idea makes me physically sick becuase it turns out I'm out not as strong as I'd previously thought.
I've always loved the story of the Lotus flower of a tiny seed that pushes it' way up through the putrid mud to bloom into a beautiful flower that reaches for the sun. Turns out, I'm not like that at all. I didn't fight through it, I just built a bridge over it. Effective, but no better than running away. Then the issue became 'how to do I live myself knowing that'?
Further thought insisted that even now there is nothing to deal with, at least nothing that can be dealt with.
Now I feel something different nagging just as incessantly only this time I don't know what it is. it's more frustrating.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 27 Seattle

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} female

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Re: can't remember

Kaze,

On the contrary, you are very strong. I don't know the history, but I do know that difficulties early in life create the dynamic you are speaking of. Could the child you were have gone through whatever it is that she endured without that strength, without determining, "I will not let this consume me!" Perhaps think of it this way, "you (your psyche) did it for her." You ARE the lotus that will grow (that IS growing) from the soils of your beginnings. The thing is you did not let it consume you. When young, we must build bridges over things, to survive. That takes great strength...to both erect and hold those bridges in place. The day will come, when you feel safe enough to take the bridge down, just small piece by small piece if need be, and claim the heart of all of you. Don't give up on your vision of the lotus you. You were inspired thusly for a reason! The more "you" care about "you," the more you will care "why." You don't have to solve it all at once. Go slowly.

Clarity

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 44, USA

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

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Re: can't remember

I think your onto something. People will say to me 'It must be have been difficult..'
And I respond with " Not really. It's what I've always done. I don't even think about it anymore."
I'm not trying to be tough, it's really how I feel. It has been this way for as long as I can remember I was so young when these issues came up that I couldn't possibly remember how or why I chose the path I did, let alone the difficulty of it. Hence a world of nightmares that I have come to see as home, yes?

thought it was 'too late' to go slowly.
I've realized just how immature I actually am and thought 'I'm 27, I should not be acting this way' and that if i did not 'grow up' I would be left behind. I know 27 isn't old but I recall from my psych class that it is around the age we stop 'growing' and become set in our ways.
But your words have been so inspiring that they have changed my perspective; 27 years is nothing to a lotus flower. I can take my time to grow, and I will.
Thank you.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 27 Seattle

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Re: can't remember

Kaze,
My response about your possibly needing more psychological help was prompted by your last response to my post. I can not help if you do not recognize the associations from my interpretations. You have to recognize 'the opposites'.

The titles of your posts, 'can't remember and wont stop raining, suggests there are deeper issues within the unconscious that need attention. Your responses to other posts also illustrate the deeper conflicts. As much as I wish to help you resolve these internal conflicts I am limited to what I can do. I do suggest another trying psychologist if the last one you visited said there were no real problems in your emotional life. Dreams do not lie. Interpreting them is one way to understand what is really within the psyche. My may be presumptuous, even to the point of being a bit arrogant, but in my years of interpreting dreams I have learned to read dreams and when there is an abundant number of symbols and/or motifs that point to an internal aspect, I trust my 'Jungian' insights that they are true. Or close enough to the truth. So I hope you take my advice as constructive criticism.

Not that you need to refrain from posting your dreams. As you have witnessed over the pass two days there are those who wish to help who have posted their comments. This is one of the valuable assets of the Dream Forum, the generosity of those who do care. Over the years this has always been true. I attribute this to the Jungian approach to self help and the inherent spiritual aspect of the psyche. Those who do post on a regular basis are either already 'jungians' or are on the path of being so. A 'jungian', and I use that word with a small j so not to heap praise on the man but his philosophies, is someone who has begun to understand the 'secrets' available within the psyche. The 'secrets' are not really secret at all, they are merely inherent knowledge we all possess but few dare to explore. They have to do with the emotions. Exploring ones emotional life, that is the beginning to learning, and understanding such 'secrets'.

If I may I would like to expand on the subject of secrets in my response to your post. As you already know dreams use the language of symbol and metaphor to reveal the 'secrets' within the psyche of the dreamer. And to better understand that language we can look to mythology {the universal language of the soul/psyche} to help us understand what our dreams are trying to convey. Perhaps a good example of how symbol and metaphor are used in myth we can use the story of Jesus on the cross {understanding that all religions are myths}. To believe that this really happened requires faith, something I have little use for when it comes to spirituality. But if you apply the story to your personal life, the death and resurrection is what needs to happen to you. A death to the ego centered/material life and a resurrection to the spiritual Self. This application of Jesus on the cross, his death and resurrection, is a metaphor for the personal life. And when you apply it to your life you begin to understand such 'secrets' of the psyche. And understanding symbol and metaphor is where Joseph Campbell's teaching become so important. He was the master of symbol and metaphor.

One other great example of Jesus and metaphor comes from the Gnostic text the Gospel of Thomas. These are 114 parables, symbolic language, spoken by Jesus {read the story of the discovery of the Gnostic Gospels-its enlightening to say the least}. For me the most valuable parable is 108 {108=9, the number for the Goddess in Greek myth, or the feminine aspect in Jungian psyche}. Here is that parable:

Jesus said, "Whoever drinks from my mouth will become like me; I myself shall become that person, and the hidden things will be revealed to him."

Apply that to the individual. He who becomes like Jesus becomes Jesus. Not a 'literal' thing but metaphorical. In other words WWJD. Do as Jesus would do in every instance of your life and you become like Jesus. "I shall become that person".
And the the 'hidden things' are those 'secrets' I spoke of. It is purely a psychological thing. To learn to think in symbol and metaphor opens up a whole new world. You can take everyone of the 114 parables and read them metaphorically and they begin to have real meaning. Even the bible, when read metaphorically, takes on new meaning.
Parable 113: His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"

"It will not come by watching for it. It will not be said, 'Look, here!' or 'Look, there!' Rather, the Father's kingdom is spread out upon the earth, and people don't see it."

Unlike the teachings of the bible which tells us we must bring God 'in', the heretic christians of the 1st century believed that God is already 'within' and needs only to be recognized as being so and brought out. This is the 'Jesus' within, a metaphor for living a life that Jesus would want us to live.

Now that you are thoroughly confused, the Gnostic teachings are pure Buddhism. Buddhism is a psychology and not a religion. I will let you read the relationship between the two from a page at Wikipedia, Buddhism and Gnosticism. Note the reference to Elaine Pagels. Early on she has been a great influence in my understanding of metaphor, symbol, religion and true spirituality.

Sorry to get off subject. But I want to illustrate the importance of understanding what is 'within' is so important to what happens 'outside'. That can come from self understanding by way of Jung's Individuation Process or getting help from a trained psychologist, preferably a Jungian psychologist. At the age of 27 you might need to do the later.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: can't remember

Hi Kaze,

I am glad my words have inspired you, but please don't mistake them as my believing that you would not benefit from the help of a mental health professional, because I believe it may be very good for you. And, as Jerry said, you would probably be best served by a Jungian therapist. I recommend a "mature" Jungian therapist.

The nightmares are you, too. They reflect the things you have repressed, clearly show the opposites Jerry refers to. You have constructed a waking life persona to protect you from those early life things. Again, this is not a bad thing, it is a coping mechanism. Many do this. We could say "all" to varying degrees.

Some say that nightmares are the most important dreams, that they grab us with such attention, as they are really trying to get us to work at reconciling the issues they portray.

Your dreams are trying to show you this double world of you.

Sam, in his response to your "won't stop raining" dream, gave you a real godlen nugget, if you will look carefully at what he shared.

You have the you that has "transcended" (can walk on water, and the Brahaman) as opposed to the you who is drowning in the rains of your inner world. The balance is somewhere in the middle. You can only achieve this by entering into the deluged wasteland and brining the two you's together.

I can't help but wonder if you are into spiritual/religious studies. I do because I know that "escaping" to such can also be a coping mechanism. What really happens is we escape our own selves.

Another way to look at that dream is perhaps to see it as the Brahaman (some above, Godly aspect within your psyche) charging you to be the heroine, to enter into the inner landscape of your life, to enter into the deluge, to stop the rains, so that the lotus may then grow from the muddied soils.

Sam's interpretation makes very solid sense. The masculine aspect of you (the you that can help you "do" in life, to live a balanced life) is currently overcome with the weight of your inner world.

Another way to look at the bridges is to say that you may need to build bridges back to your emotional aspects that need healing, to reconcile the division you have created within yourself, to save that you who is drowing in the deluge.

The deluge can depict sadness, but in my way of seeing things, the rains can also portray healing and renewal.

But you have to do the work - and the guidance of a Jungian would be very beneficial to you.

These are powerful dreams. Some (many) mental health folks "don't do dreams" - and it appears to me that the keys to your psychological work is being presented to you in your dreams. That is how it is supposed to work - especially when the waking life personality cannot "see." The dreams become the guide and will give a Jungian the needed information to help steer you along.

If you should consult a Jungian, I recomment brining all your dreams along with you.

Clarity

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 44, Kansas

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