Ericka,
Let em address the subject of spirit in this post and the rest of your response in another post. This may require a lot of space and not to burden you with so much info I will break my responses down to smaller posts.

First I think it important to distinguish between symbols and allegory. Dreams use symbols and metaphors as its language. A symbol is a word, place, character, or object that means something beyond what it is on a literal level. An allegory involves using many interconnected symbols or allegorical figures in such as way that in nearly every element of the narrative has a meaning beyond the literal level. It is important to understand the difference because a dream symbol is a metaphorical reference representing some aspect of the dreamer. An allegory can be read either literally or as a symbolic reference. Dreams symbols are seldom literal representations. It may be splitting hairs but since dreams are so hard to understand to begin with, a mist-understanding of any part of its reference {about the dreamer} becomes important.

As to the exploration of the spirit world. Dreams explore the inner spirit. Outer spirits, or something from the 'spirit world' is not something of my expertise nor something I really believe in. Just as God is said to be a spirit that must be brought in, my concept of spiritual identity is it is something that already resides within us all and must be brought out. Psychology, and Jung was a psychologist, is a science, based on factual concepts, whereas the 'spirit', as in the concept of God, is something that requires faith and can not be proved, nor disproved. Unfortunately, or fortunately in my assessment, my faith in the religions of the world has been corrupted by experience, the practice of religion being so diminished by the requirements of faith that good deeds are an after thought. I left my Christian faith behind long ago but I have retained my belief in the one concept associated with it. WWJD. If I must be judged, judge me by my deeds and not my faith. I fall short on the later but practice the former with zeal.
I am not an atheist or even an agnostic. I do believe there are mechanisms within nature that rule. What goes around comes around. I have 'experienced' this many times in my 60 years of life and if there is any belief system I live by it is experience {As did Joseph Campbell}.
What happens to a person is most often a result of previous actions on their part. The conflicts in ones life is most often a product of there own making. And as I have stated previously, life is a psychological journey, first and foremost. You can not divorce the psychology from the experience no matter what kind of experience it is.

But I am not about denying or diminishing anyone's religion or religious faith. I believe there are good and bad in all religions {I do not consider Buddhism as a religion as much as it is a psychology}. I can accept anyone no matter their religion, color of skin, or any other difference there may be. It is how they act toward others that makes them different. I try to pattern my life in the framework of WWJD. If I am to associate myself with any religious concept it would be Gnosticism and in particular the Gospel of Thomas, 114 parables spoken by Jesus yet rejected by the church because it requires one to look inward for salvation and not outward. It is pure Buddhism in its language.
Few Christians are even aware of these texts because they do refute many of the basic tenants of the bible. Deliberately in my opinion.

So we are a point where we are really talking about two different things. One is the psychology of dreams for which I have many years of experience consider myself a bit of a authority. The other, the spirit world, outside the psyche is not something I have any degree of experience on which to comment. Nor can I comment on the legitimacy of your experiences nor do I question them. I consider that to be a matter of faith and I have already stated my position on that subject.

When I look at your dreams I do so with the eye of factual concepts that Jung proposed, his interpretation of thousands of dreams and the factual results of those interpretations. My obedience to his concepts come from my own experience in interpreting dreams {more than 3000 posts at the Dream Forum and that does not include the older interpretations of the forum that are no longer available for inspection}. I could not be so lucky to provide as accurate interpretations as I do without a concept of knowledge that has validity. One need only review the posts, interpretations and responses to gage how well Jungian dream philosophy works. I am a mere conduit of greater minds, albeit with an intuitive ability that naturally connects me with Jungian concepts {I use the term 'intuitive Jungian'}. My education is self taught, as is my abilities in web design and my project Myths-Dreams-Symbols. I have in the past, and I know others still do, question my abilities but because I do have this forum I can test and prove my points of contention. Nothing better than good evidence to support ones point of view.

Please take this as an outline of what I 'know' of dreams and the dream world. This is not questioning any of what you state as your experiences. My answers to your dreams will be based on the science and not concepts of possibilities beyond that science. But of course even in science nothing is so factual that it is beyond question. New discoveries in science often change our thinking on many positions. But I can honestly say that the new discoveries in the science of dreams, even those new discoveries of the brain fit with Jung's concepts of the psyche. What appears in your dreams are interpreted using this science. And my intuitive reading of the symbols as metaphors of what is within your psyche. All I require is the age and gender of the dreamer, then let the intuiive psyche go with what I see within the dream. It is a blissful fulfillment of who I am.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

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Ericka,
Again, don't take my last post as refutation of any experiences or abilities you may have with 'spirit world'. Although I do not have a belief in most of what is described as 'spirits' I don't entirely dismiss the possibilities. What I do believe is that anything that 'is', is within the confines of what is within nature. I believe in the natural world and there is so much we do not understand about that. We need only look at the new discoveries we are making in the underworld oceans. That vast world has barely been explored and the possibilities of what is there will probably continue to amaze us. But even there I see what ever is there is within the scope of the natural world. If there is a God it is within nature and to accurately name it we would have to change the vocabulary from masculine to the feminine. As in Mother Earth.

Back to your dream. I won't comment on all of it because we have covered those parts that address the spirit world and my take on those possibilities. I do wish to comment on what I see in teh dream that does fit with you are, as you have described yourself.

From your comments it was not hard to assess that you are African American. And we know you are female. But the dream's description of the 'heavyset/full figured black woman with long thick hair with beautiful thick waves' would not usually be a dead pan description of the dreamer. After reading your dream with full focus today it became apparent this was you as a strong willed black woman. That came through from the language 'long thick hair with black waves'. I often see hair in dreams as associated with intellect. The black waves is less about the color of your hair or skin as it is about a personality that is afraid to make 'waves'. This is an unconscious or inherent aspect {anything black is often addressing the deep unconscious} that I sensed as being about personality. I often see personality traits with dreams, something I began to realize with the past year or so. The red dress also says something about your personality. Passionate, red about your beliefs, and yourself. Self confidence.
But there seems to be a negative to this aspect of your personality. You can not see your feet. Feet are what you stand on, the foundations that make who you are. I see that coming primarily from childhood. My research has shown that the first years of life are the most important in development. My post from August 29th, New Study-Our personalities may be set as early as 1st grade supports this proposition. Rob Reiner's I Am Your Child campaign in California which advocates the first years of childhood development as being the most important also supports this proposition as do many other recent studies. It is no wonder dreams provide information about these influences, often showing children in some form or degree within a dream. These need not be traumatic experiences in life but merely formative impressions the psyche retains from early life influences and experiences. These influence/experiences are often the foundations of the adult life. Going back over the past year when I saw such images relating to childhood and presenting the possibilities in my interpretations, the response to them have been positive. That is why I believe your dream has focused to some degree and for some reason on your childhood.

The childhood experiences as well as personality traits I sense in dreams are patterns I see often in dreams and have been confirmed in responses to my interpretations. I don't know what Jung thought about these possibilities, I have to read any info on that. But because dreams do betray patterns of emotional behavior it is only proper to believe this is an aspect of the dream we can look for. The more I work with dreams, especially in the last two years {a time when subtle changes came about in my life that I sensed would lead me to higher understanding/realizations} the more insights I understand about the function of dreams. The past two years have been a time when I left the confines of secluded existence and returned to the world of social obligations {returning to fulltime management of my fence construction business I had passed to my son who moved to Orlando and started up an new fence construction business}. This is all a 'defined' part of the cycle of the hero journey, the evolving phases in my life. In Jungian psyche it is known as the Individuation Process. You probably don't recognize it, at least not in the vocabulary I use here, but you are engaged in that same process. The link I provided about teh shadow is a part of that self examination process.

"This wasn't about death (Kali) or sacrifice (Jesus) this was about understanding, acceptance and synthesis of knowledge."
That may well be but the spiritual journey is all about death and resurrection as well as sacrifice. Just when you think you have reached the highest plateau of your spiritual awareness something will bring you back down to reality and you realize you are but in one stage of many stages. Those stages continue until the very last stage, the ultimate stage of death and transition {transition to what or where is another debate of religious ideas and beliefs}.

There is a quote learned from Joseph Campbell that I hold close because it does keep me grounded. "He who knows doesn't know. He who doesn't know knows." A strong personality along with a lot of new realizations is a formula for not knowing as much as you think you know. I was there when I was in my mid 40s. There are so many different experiences in each of our lives that we must work through when we get to that mid-life stage it is a difficult road to travel without 'falling off the path'. And again, just when we think we have rounded the most difficult turns in that road we are met with new challenges that provide new realizations, not only about ourselves but of universal truths that enlighten the soul as well as the senses. The wise old woman or wise old man will eventually show itself, if not in your dreams then in some other fashion or form. Pay great attention to this wisdom aspect because it is a learning experience that will elevate you over an important threshold. The hero path is a model to live life by, a psychological journey that will bring about balance and harmony in life. And that ultimate goal of finding the Holy Grail is a realization that was 'within' you all the time. In Jungian psyche the Holy Grail is the spiritual soul. The myths in all culture speak of it. We need only realize the metaphorical reference in each to understand the universal symbol as it relates to the individual soul.

Recommended reading: The Hero’s Journey
A Campbellian Look at the Metaphorical Path to Personal Transformation

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Thanks for those responses Jerry. It is great to know where the insight of my interpreter comes from. I respect you opinion. Please know that, first and foremost, or I wouldn't be here discussing this dream with you. It was very personal for me on so many levels.

I am not unfamiliar with Jung. I have watched films on him and have read a few books as well. I respect his theories, but I always felt as if there was something more. My own interpretation comes from the interpreted symbolism of other figures who also have been impacted by his teachings. No, I do not discount them, nor your interpretation. However, I realized that some of the feelings of the dream cannot be expressed verbally to lend to my reasons for insistence. Nevertheless, by my accounts, we both are right! Our thoughts together provide the perfect synthesis of what I feel to be true. There is much psychology there, but there is spirituality as well.

I really appreciate your insight. I, too, fell in love with Gnostic philosophy, cosmogony, and spirituality, and the book of Thomas is one of my favs. To hear that we share so many of the same opinions and foundations helps me to integrate what you say with what I feel.

There is a saying that goes:
If a man knows not, and knows not that he knows not, shun him; if a man knows not and knows that he knows not, teach him; but if a man knows and knows that he knows, follow him.

I feel as if, in this case, I am the second man and you are the third. Sixty years of knowledge is too much to dismiss and I appreciate your wealth in that area and thank you for sharing it with me. That is why I came and am sure to come again.

Your interpretation has opened many avenues of thought into my situation. Hopefully in time you will *SEE* the impact of your interpretation of this particular dream. For,as you said, once I have found my foundation, stabilize my thinking, and become determined in my position, there IS a great spiritual transformation that is due to occur. The old me will die out, sacrificed for the new life I will have been granted for great spiritual work.

Thank you so much.

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