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Blue fish

There was a bright blue fish that was very pretty and wasnt very big, probably about 6 inches or so from nose to tail end. It was out of the fish tank and I was trying to put it back. It was trying to get away and also trying to bite my finger but I wanted to save it.

I got it back into the fish tank but inside there was a larger fish that looked more like a frog with very small leopard print blue and black skin. This fish was alot bigger than the other fish and was peaking out of the dark. I was affraid it was going to eat the blue fish. The larger dark fish seemed negative to me like it wanted to hurt the small fish.

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Re: Blue fish

Melissa,
I had two sensations about the first part of the dream where the 'fish' is out of its tank and you are trying to put it back. One is some aspect of your life is out of its 'element' and you want to put it back in place. This may have associations to recent waking experience{s}.
The second would be something within your unconscious that has 'gotten out' and because of its emotional energy you want to put it back so not to confront/endure it. You are unwilling or unable to confront/endure this deeper emotional issue because of the conflict it causes/caused {the deeper issues would come from earlier life experiences}.
One or both may fit. Look at these possibilities as the central theme of the dream and determine if one or both fit.

As for the other symbols and their possibilities. The size of the fish may be a description of your physical body. Are you very 'big'? The size may also be addressing the size of the emotional conflict involved, consciously minimizing it because you do not want to address the issue.
I see the number 6 as representing the physical life wanting/trying to find balance/wholeness in life. This may be a personal issue that has now been brought out of the unconscious due to some recent experience that is related to an emotional conflict from your past. And it ma be directed toward recent waking experiences that have associations to the deeper issues.
The colour of the fish, blue, would represent a positive aspect{s} of your life/personality. Letting this emotional out would threaten this positive aspect{s}. It may also be describing your general outlook on life, a positive one. Underlying emotional issues from your past, if let out, would threaten this positive 'you' {fish}.

Getting it back into the tank again seems to be saying you are wanting to 'keep' something in. The dream is a way these emotional issues are brought out so to inform/remind the dreamer of the unresolved conflict involved. Minimizing the problem, or holding it in, only leads to larger problems. It will only get larger, develop into something larger {frog}. The larger problem may be addressing underlying unconscious issues that are at the foundations of the emotional issue, the 'bigger issues' from earlier life experiences that underlie your life and personality {those experiences/influences that determining factors to who you are today}. The problem is one that would threaten to 'devour' the positive aspects of your life {and the reason you wish to keep it held in, repressed}.

Look at the fish out of its tank as something in your life that is out of its element. That would most likely be a recent waking experience that causes conflict. And also deeper issues that could cause great emotional strain if you were to 'let it out'. These do seem to be the prime issues the dream is addressing {dreams tend to address more than one issue in the dreamer's life using the same symbols and metaphors, the language of dreams, to define both issues}. The recent waking experience may have brought to mind past experienecs you wish to forget.

Jerry

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Re: Blue fish

First off... Thank you for your interpretation. =)


I almost gave you more information before this dream but decided just to let you respond first.

I had been working with someone on my dreams (therapeutically) for quite a while up until a few months ago in attempt to individuate.  Blue would show up with white in my dream images quite frequently when we began working together. He chalked the blue up to ego/ego contamination. 

I am also currently doing inner child work attempting to address the blockages (childhood issues) that are preventing my own individuation. But don't have assistance on the dream work any longer.

I have had many dreams about fish but they are always red/gold, white and black spots (gold fish) A lot of the time there is an issue like the fish tank breaks and I am saving them, putting them back or finding a container. This is usually in response to my emotional state and my attempt to manage what is going on in my life from time to time. Having the tank shatter in a dream is when things are problematic and I swing between polarities instead of being centered. Hence not being at all able to contain the fish.

For this scenario i can only assume the best image would be the fish being in their natural environment (still being contained naturally) and not a man made tank?

I hadn't had a fish dream in quite some time and never a blue fish so this left me in the dark and I couldn't figure out even though now it seems to blatantly make sense.. 

I didn't see the fish association as being a positive aspect, this was unknown to me.

What you have said seems true.

"I see the number 6 as representing the physical life wanting/trying to find balance/wholeness in life. This may be a personal issue that has now been brought out of the unconscious due to some recent experience that is related to an emotional conflict from your past."

"The larger problem may be addressing underlying unconscious issues that are at the foundations of the emotional issue, the 'bigger issues' from earlier life experiences that underlie your life and personality {those experiences/influences that determining factors to who you are today}. *The problem is one that would threaten to 'devour' the positive aspects of your life {and the reason you wish to keep it held in, repressed}."

Since the blue fish is small... Could this be that the current ego resistance to the Self and the unconscious is also small? 

Trying to put the blue fish /positive ego aspects back in the tank is an attempt to contain what I can. Moving ahead into the unknown is causing fear of course as the ego always doesn't want to loose its place much less be contained, resulting in the unknown potential of being consumed by something larger because of repression... It is fighting not to be contained/limited (which is what has to happen for the Self to come forward?) Yet not aware that it could also still be consumed by something larger should I/it continue to resist the unconscious material being brought forth. I am/my ego is in an in-between state it seems.


I am guessing I need to be cautious at this point. I had another few dreams after this fish .dream that seem to show that a split occurs, (struggling to stay connected) and that I fall back into unconscious patterns when I resist and run from the experiences that I am trying to connect with. The positive ego aspects are lost when this occurs.

The blockage has not been cleared. My work is not yet finished.

I know that bringing these unconscious things to light will ultimately bring about profound changes to myself and my foundation. My current life/foundation can not be sustained as it is should the transformation occur. I dont know that I can ever again choose to willingly live unconsciously, driven by the unseen forces of the past. (I know this occurs in everyone and is part of life) My goal is to become fully conscious. I knew this when i began this process.

 Stability has always been very important to me. I am still working to find a way to embrace these changes and allow them to occur without fear

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Re: Blue fish

Melissa,
It seems to me the color blue associated with white construed as ego contamination would have to have other defining symbols to properly fit. Dark blue could represent 'depression' or have negative connotations, especially if compared to white {purity, happiness, joy, innocence}. But most often in Jungian psyche it is associated with the unconscious, especially the collective unconscious or aspects of the deep unconscious {deep blue ocean}. It is most often a positive. White is a common symbol for purity, happiness. Both colors are feminine in nature and would represent the inner qualities {intuition}. If you could elaborate on how the association to ego contamination came about perhaps we can learn something new about the possibilities of these colors as they appear in dreams.

The 'blockages' associated with childhood is what I was focusing on with the 'deeper' issues. I am a proponent that dreams often address those deeper foundations that make up the personality in later life. Childhood experiences/influences are the primary building blocks for such foundations. The fish out of the tank could be unconscious aspects that need to be brought out. Trying to put the fish back into the tank would suggest repression of childhood experiences. I believe this is the primary focus of this dream. Those aspects within the deep unconscious, the tank, need to be let so you can understand them and confront the unresolved issues. The ego will fight against letting them out since it would disrupt the perceived tranquility of the waking life. This is not the true self, it is what the ego has built. Those underlying influences that have unconscious control of your life is what the dream wants to focus on. The fish in the tank is your true self.

The different colored fish could be aspects of yourself. The color Gold, as something valuable, could symbolize your true self, as distinct from your conscious ego. The black spots would be the negatives, or even the shadow aspects. And it is also a symbol for the unconscious, the depths.

Not having seen fish as a positive aspect is something I don't quite understand. Other than the possibility as a representation of libido or greed all symbolic representations I have know are positive or point to the true self which when realized and resolved is a positive. From the MDS Dream Dictionary:

1} A fish is a common symbol of fertility, which in psychological terms means (a promise of) personal growth.

2} If the fish is in the sea, the sea may symbolize the unconscious, the fish unconscious urges (over-eating, etc.)

3} According to Jung, fish, being cold blooded and primitive creatures, may symbolize a deep level of unconsciousness.

4} Fishes and snakes are favourite symbols for describing psychic happenings or experiences that suddenly dart out of the unconscious and have a frightening or redeeming effect' (Jung).

5} They may also, says Jung, represent libido or greed.

6} A fish is a symbol of Christ and may therefore function psychologically as a symbol of your true self. This is an 'archetypal' image.

The dream is a direct link to the unconscious and the intent is to provide access to unconscious contents. Especially those emotional issues that are in conflict. The therapeutic value of dreams is to help the dreamer resolve such issues. One has to understand the language of dreams to gain a proper interpretation.
Dreams speak in a language of symbol and metaphor and it is imperative to be able to understand this language. This symbolic language is also found in mythology. My suggestion to anyone who wishes to better understand this language, and the reasons for its use in dreams, is to study the works of Joseph Campbell. Besides being a noted expert on mythology, symbols and metaphor his ability to articulate Jungian psychology is unsurpassed. It was from him I began my journey some 18 years ago and to him I give the credit for the Myths-Dreams-Symbols website and the Dream Forum {and my interest and ability to interpret dreams}.

The small fish would be the ego take of the emotional conflicts. The ego doesn't want you to let this issue develop {frog} into what it is truly is; an influence on your waking life that must be confronted and resolved. The larger fish eating the small fish would be the fear of letting the true self out, consuming the ego world you have made for yourself, protecting that world by repressing the true world that is being kept in a 'tank' {unconscious}.

I looked at your dream and saw a simple possibility to its probable meaning. I still see it that way. And I believe anyone with a Jungian influence would also.

The 6 inch length of the fish, something that wasn't very big. That would be the ego assessment of the unconscious contents. But does it also describe your stature? What is your height? Dreams often provide such descriptions in 'cognito', if for no other reason than to describe the dreamer. Dreams also often provide insights to personality traits. I say this with confidence because I have sen such contents in dreams that were verified by the dreamer. See my recent post Interpreting A Dream-Explaining How I Interpret the Symbols
to get an understanding of how I do interpret dreams and the verification from responses to my interpretations that are so valuable in understanding dreams.

Jerry

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Re: Blue fish

This does seem to be true.... I can not disagree.

The small fish would be the ego take of the emotional conflicts. The ego doesn't want you to let this issue develop {frog} into what it is truly is; an influence on your waking life that must be confronted and resolved. The larger fish eating the small fish would be the fear of letting the true self out, consuming the ego world you have made for yourself, protecting that world by repressing the true world that is being kept in a 'tank' {unconscious}.




I will quote what was told to me about the color blue. There are many dreams that I have had that involve the color blue. I have listed some of the bigger dreams below. It is quite elaborate so I appologize in advance if it is too much.


*? Is the blue color only significant to me and my contamination or is it the same color for everyone similar to black people and how they appear in dreams? I have always liked the color blue/aqua since I was very young… Is this important at all?

--Your subconscious definitely uses the color blue in very specific ways (patterns) to make a statement on what's going on with the male side. I have, in the past, listed them, especially with the blue/white, blue/red paring. The context of how a symbol is used cannot be separated from its meaning or the person. This is why dream dictionaries are failures. However, because the unconscious dynamics have already been worked over thousands of years, in mythology, alchemy, etc., because they show the actual process of transformation in action, they're very important clues. But it's the actual dream of the actual person within the actual context of his or her life that comes first.
~~~~~~
specific dream example....

There was a motorcycle in traffic and there was a man riding it that was being a jerk and I tried to point him out to police. I ended up on his bike and riding it. It was white and blue. I pulled up next to a white limousine and black male celebrity was in it also dressed in all white. I had a hard time figuring out the controls because they were small and hard to maneuver but I did.


--Again, the Ego is struggling to differentiate between what is really it and what has contaminated it. (The male side.)

--To repeat: it's the unmet needs of the Shadow which have put you in its grip and which are driving you (literally).


**** another example (elaborate but is relative to the association of the white and blue I believe in the end of the dream)

I remember walking through an area that was like a cemetery but not a normal cemetery. There was a tomb which was large and rectangle but not very tall. It was black and belonged to a female Hindu deity (not sure which one and I don't want to assume). There were people rubbing bark on the top of it to help keep some unknown animal away. But then they were letting something else crawl on top of it. I remembered them saying rats but they looked more like a furry slug with a rat tail and lots of small little legs or tentacles even. They were a light brown.
--There is so much here, I don't know where to begin. The bottom line is: you are supremely hard-headed. This mortificatio with the Hindu Goddess (I am positive it is Khali) shows how the Negative Mother Archetype has been activated within you. (In addition to your Father Complex, now your Mother Complex makes its grand appearance.) This is the Devouring Mother, and represents.

It seems to me that you have been living your life in such high resistance to your mother--at all costs, trying to be her opposite--that this has blinded you to a lot of your own faults. (I know this is painful to swallow. I don't say this lightly.)


I continued to walk and there was a girl who turned into a tree. Her limbs looked like wooded vines and there was a sign near her "as above so below". She had a green hue as if there was a fine moss growing on her. But she was dead. I had the thought that if I ate a piece of the wood this would also happen to me and I would end up slowly turning into a tree and eventually dying like she did, I thought this was also what happened to her. The sign also had the story of how she came to deal with the issue and where she finally came to rest.

--As I predicted, again, we have some strong archetypal content now coming in. What is interesting is how the woman herself becomes almost the Tree of Life, for it is of this tree that one eats of the actual tree (not any "fruit"). The sign, "As above, so below," appears as a way of telling you that, like a seed being planted--for the seed has to "die" so that it will turn into a tree that bears "much fruit." This is what must happen to you, or what will happen to you, if you continue with this process. The Tree of Life grows inside you. After you reconcile these issues (your Shadow, and, particularly, the un-finished business with your mother), you will be psychologically transformed. But, you cannot reach this stage until you get rid of your hard-headedness. I wonder if the "hairy slugs" could represent anger (in the form of jealousy) you had for your mother, with regard to your father.

After that I walked past another plot and there were two sets of legs sticking out of the ground. they seemed to be fashioned like half of a Swastika (The hindu/Buddhis etc lineage I am aware although unsure of the term for the symbol if there is another) There were two heads there too but they didn't look human, they looked like dolls. The legs and heads were colored yelow white black and red. It reminded me of race horse jockeys.

--You are right; the Swastika is actually the reverse of an ancient Hindu symbol, which has been transmitted to Buddhism as well. When you describe the legs as "half swastikas," you are describe the right-angle bend of each leg, and how it connects with another.

The symbol (when it is whole) represents The Black Sun, ultimately: the state of wholeness, for the swastika is really a stylized spiral, whose quaternity (four-ness) is exaggerated by the right angles (making it a kind of cross). Here, though, we glimpse this archetype (really, the archetype for God) as it is embodied by your male side, and it is broken in half. Your journey to wholeness, in other words, means not only containing the Shadow, but also connect to God inwardly. It's the damage received by the father that you will have to work through in order to connect to the masculine aspect of God.


I think there was another tomb but I don't remember it.

I was then at my Grandmas house. I remember going through and it reminding me of a similar place to where I was. There were various things I passed but don't remember them all but faintly maybe there were some alters. I passed an area that there was a place in the wall that was concave.

--The Grandmother, I can tell, was a very positive influence for you. She appears again here as a kind of stabilizing force to Khali. In other words, you cannot connect to positive energy of Goddess through your mother (because of the wounds from her); however, through your grandmother, you were able to get some balance from her, yes?.

It was as if a square was cut out. It was lined with black stones which were also concave. Inside there were shoes in a circle pattern all with the toes pointing to the center. I think there were maybe 5 of them maybe more but not too sure. The walls thought were covered in fabric, Mostly white with fine blue stripes. remember a rectangular window up higher sort of placed how a air vent would be placed. It was also about that size. I remember around it there was dirt built up and thinking there would be no way to really paint over the walls because they were made of fabric. On another wall there were several windows in a line. In between each window and the next there was a light switch.

--Opposites are being contained--almost:

***another big dream

I remember being in a house. Inside the house the only light that was there was blue light coming from a TV. I remember being there with Eyan, and another man. Eyan mentioned that she had a story that a boy wrote to her but she couldn’t read the story till 7:00pm that night. So at 7:00 she started to read the letter.

The symbolizes a connection with the Self that is being made, but because the proper Shadow work has not been done (because you see a lot of it as still "diseased" and reject it), your Ego (symbolized by the house) is not capable of withstanding the truth. Still, a connection has been made, and another procedure is introduced (known as the sublimatio, symbolized by the high winds that come pouring into the house and the suck you out of the Ego-safe zone and into an entirely new region of your unexplored psyche. The winds (archetypal forces) literally thrust you and your daughter (symbolizing Jane) out of the Ego-shell.

*jane is a representation of one version of my Inner child, which is a recurent association in my dreams. I also have an older daughter that shows up representing myself in teenage years where I started to become more so posessed by negative animus and influenced by projections.

When she did it was as if the house had been tilted and wind was blowing into the house. We then started to try to get to the door to shut it so the wind would stop blowing. We finally got to the door and shut it. As soon as we shut the door the door began to break apart like a window cracking. Pieces of the door and the wall broke off and were sucked out into space as if there were a hole in an airplane that lost air pressure and everything was being sucked out but we were still at the same time fighting gravity to get out of the house. At this point because the house was falling apart there was no choice but to jump. Once we jumped I remember being able to somewhat control my body and try to aim for a hill top that was covered in snow, and falling through clouds while positioning my body so that I could guide myself to where I needed to land. I remember knowing it was a good time to jump because I knew we were over a place where we could safely land.

This means you have a tiny--very tiny--brush with the Self, and this tiny brush comes on like some sort hurricane. The Ego's position needs more calibration (Shadow work).

I landed safely in the snow and ended up being there with my son Noah and a monkey.

The monkey here (as well as the white gorilla) prefigure some very powerful transformations that will occur the future.

We were making our way through the snow and I remember holding the monkey and Noah but then having Noah move in closer to between us so that he would stay warm. We were making our way to a house that was in the distance and I saw a white gorilla that was more animated than real, the face was simple and it had blue spots. I initially was concerned about it and pushed it off to the side where there was a ravine but it seemed to just come back and again was following us. (on the left side) I remember going into the house which was glass and seeing all sorts of life sized dolls and animals similar to the people you would see in costume at Disneyworld or another theme park just maybe a little smaller and not costumes. We were trying not to wake them up.

Notice you have gone from fire to ice now, trying to wake the automatons, you also appear frozen.

*the themepark is also a recurent pattern in my dreams relating to childhood.

We went in and turned the corner to the *left which was where there were others at. When we got there we needed to rescue them. I remember the others waking up but they really didn’t do anything about us being there as someone or something else was holding them off. I knew we had to leave and thought of getting a recliner that was there for us to ride in. It was peach colored and older. Comfortable and not at all ornate. I also thought to put Noahs (my son) skate board under the front of the chair to guide it out. I remember also telling the kids to grab blankets because it was going to be cold. (at this point there were more than just Noah and I that I was concerned about although I am not sure who the others were.

At this time other men showed up and were there to detain us for the others. Noah asked me if I remembered the line. He told me to draw a line and follow it and you will be able to fly. For some reason in the dream at this point I remembered a story that I learned when I read into Kabbalah at this point and it was the teaching about Moses parting the read sea and the men having faith.

The line you are drawing here (to divide the conscious from the unconscious, to distinguish the outside from the inside) is what causes the activation of the Self. Notice how it first comes as a mighty wind (much the The Spirit does in the OT), and thrusts you out of your Ego-shell when you make contact with the your Shadow (acted by your daughter). Here, slowly, after connecting again, you are properly connecting to the Self (by doing this inner work), and are harnessing the archetypal power.

So I go out outside which is a patio area of a sort and draw a line leading from a door on the building looking at it again I am seeing the door on my left. From this area I draw a curved line that led away from the house… It stopped at the edge of the snow. I hoped that the chair would be able to travel this line and fly also. I then ran following this line and flew.. But when I did the line ended at some water instead of snow. I hoped that the others got out after this and seemed to linger in thought to ensure they did. Outside when I drew the line it was very light but when I left the ground it got dark somewhat like it was night again. I flew around parallel to some buildings along the side going up and then traversing a power line and had to think and try not to touch both of them at the same time which because of how fast I was going I almost did. I was then flying over the water again and noticed how clear it was ant it was like I could see underwater mountains. The water was a deep blue and I saw the mountains under the water were redish like clay or terracotta colored. I flew by it again and noticed the seascape under water wasn’t real that it was painted and some of the blue paint had wore off and the mountains were closer to the surface than they were when I had flew over them before. None the less I was still flying over the water.

Intuitively, I feel this flying--the granting of this panoramic overview--is the result of the withdrawal of a projection. A refinement has taken place within you, as a result of this making the effort to separate from the Animus. You are still not completely refined in this area, but by just becoming aware of it and enduring it, you ascend.
[/b][/b]

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Re: Blue fish

Melissa,
I'll provide a detailed response to your thorough reply {which I appreciate} later today. I do notice a lot of supposition on your part. Are these yours, knowledge you have gained from your own experience, or are they from someone else? {I ask this because of your statement "I will quote what was told to me about the color blue"}.

Have you studied Jungian psyche and if so for how long and to what degree? I ask these questions so to better understand your psyche with that knowledge providing clues to your dreams. If there is a 'Jungian' understanding of dream theory I am a bit baffled that you have never associate the fish with the positive, the true self. That is pretty much a staple to Jungian psyche {even in reference to mythology, the Christ motif}.

Again, are these suppositions on your part or someone else? I want to gain insights to where your 'statements of fact' come from. If from a Jungian analyst, well he/she has a better position than I since he/she knows you much better and has had the ability to delve deeper into your psyche. If an analyst and not a Jungian, well I am of the position such a person, even with their education, is in a lesser position in the understanding of dreams. Being a 'Jungian' and having the experience in Jungian psyche I am a loyal believer in his theories on dream psyche.

But outside that you have provided much to discuss. If you are willing to open up to my suggestions, based on Jungian philosophy, this could be a learning experience for both of us. I feel I am qualified in dream psych but I am always open to learning more. Every dream is a learning experience and with the Dream Forum I am able to learn so much about the dream. Practice does tend to make a more 'perfect' ability to understand and know.

Jerry

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Re: Blue fish

Hello Jerry,

I have quoted you to respond to your questions more easily.

Are these yours, knowledge you have gained from your own experience, or are they from someone else? {I ask this because of your statement "I will quote what was told to me about the color blue"}.


The bold remarks in my last post are from an understudy of an analyst that I worked with on my dreams… not my own. I worked with him for over a year on my dreams, although I did not always agree on what he provided, the consensus was to wait to see what the dreams say. I have the dreams from this time saved either in e mail or on my computer which is how I accessed them to show you the details.

He (understudy) wrote a dossier on my dreams and sent it to the Jungian analyst that he worked with for verification and they agreed on what he (the understudy) concluded (complexes, shadow issues etc) in the analysis. I have also spoken with this other person who is a true analyst, he is a real person. … Sorry if this is complicated.

Also in one of my big dreams over the summer it did show that I was truly individuating. But this process has seemingly come to a hault. My big dreams have stopped and as I told you I feel there is a blockage, not because I was told this but because of what my dreams are saying. But I personally have not studied Jung enough to make this decision on my own.

I do know though that I still project/ have not healed old wounds. It is hard for me to emotionally feel what is actually going on and remember what happened and why so that I can modify these things that are the core issues preventing my progress, which tells me that I have not attained what I intend as I mentioned before.



Have you studied Jungian psyche and if so for how long and to what degree? I ask these questions so to better understand your psyche with that knowledge providing clues to your dreams. If there is a 'Jungian' understanding of dream theory I am a bit baffled that you have never associate the fish with the positive, the true self. That is pretty much a staple to Jungian psyche {even in reference to mythology, the Christ motif}.


I have not studied in depth but know the general theories and ideas. I have not investigated my own dreams alone until recently. As I said I was mentored in this. He was the one who would let me know what was going on in my own dreams. I have learned to see some of the associations and understand at times (not always) what happens in the dreams in relation to my waking life.

Because of the statement in the first quotation (which was made by the person I was working with on my dreams) I did not investigate dream dictionaries. So this association of the fish was never revealed to me.

I had a dream once where I was with a Jehovas witness in all white and a white snake was trying to bite a white fish (amongst other things going on in the dream)… Even still this association was not brought to my attention. I did feel that a full explanation was lacking in this endeavor. I always wanted to know more but he worked with me for free and as you know this is hard to come by. I could not afford to pay a true Jungian Analyst to do this same work.

As you can see from what was said in the few dreams I showed you it was more about what was going on and not the symbolism or direction on how to maneuver through the issues that were creating the dreams themselves.

Again, are these suppositions on your part or someone else? I want to gain insights to where your 'statements of fact' come from. If from a Jungian analyst, well he/she has a better position than I since he/she knows you much better and has had the ability to delve deeper into your psyche. If an analyst and not a Jungian, well I am of the position such a person, even with their education, is in a lesser position in the understanding of dreams. Being a 'Jungian' and having the experience in Jungian psyche I am a loyal believer in his theories on dream psyche.

But outside that you have provided much to discuss. If you are willing to open up to my suggestions, based on Jungian philosophy, this could be a learning experience for both of us. I feel I am qualified in dream psych but I am always open to learning more. Every dream is a learning experience and with the Dream Forum I am able to learn so much about the dream. Practice does tend to make a more 'perfect' ability to understand and know.



I am more than willing to take any assistance I can get which is why I posted the blue fish dream to begin with… (This last person I mentioned that I worked with also used our work together as a learning experience.)

I know to truly individuate one must always monitor waking life and the dreams which is a time consuming intensive process. The only issue I see is that when working continuously dreams can become/are very personal as you know… I know that I wouldn't feel comfortable with ‘all’ of them being revealed to the public in this forum. I would feel more comfortable working privately if it is to be in depth.





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Re: Blue fish

Melissa,
Let me respond with caution since I do not have the benefits of an in-depth analysis of your life as does your analyst. That is professional advice you need to consider and what I offer can only supplement that service he provides. I do have a few comments I hope will be helpful in your understanding of Jungian psyche and your 'individuation'.

How long have you been working with your Individuation Process? My experience is that process is a long path to travel. The discovery of the true self {fish} takes time and most importantly discipline. I believe it is a process of understanding and not just a measure of dreaming. What causes us to be who we are comes with the knowledge to the underlying stimuli, experiences and influences from earlier life. Most often that begins, if not solely the roots, in childhood. If there are barriers built by the conscious self to those causes then it is the process of removing those 'walls' that becomes most important. My experience was not barriers as much as it was not consciously knowing the underlying influences. Once I began to understand the process and where to look it was a matter of discipline to stay with it until I realized the full extent of my early life experiences/influences that were controlling who I was as an adult. It was deconstruction of who I was to understand who I am. Then the process turned to 'reconstructing' a new identity based on a formula of the hero journey. The journey is as much psychological as it is physical but the ultimate realization is of the 'metaphysical', the true self combined with a developed sense of meaning that is rooted in a spiritual/creative identity. Moving from the strict zones of time and space to the open areas of the here and now. Not relying on a subjective view of self and the world but also an objective view. Behind the barriers is a mirror and the reflection is of the soul {spiritual/creative}. I believe true individuation takes place when you reach that plateau.
Where do you think you are on that path?

You state you stop having big dreams. I don't believe that alone suggest you have stopped progressing, The blockage you spoke of may merely be a part of the process. I have had few 'big dreams' in my journey but recognized them when they occurred. And they always corresponded with waking life experiences. I hit those walls several times in my journey and when looking back I realized they too were a part of the process. From the Power of Myth:
'The achievement of the hero is one that he is ready for and it's really a manifestation of his character. It's amusing the way in which the landscape and conditions of the environment match the readiness of the hero. The adventure that he is ready for is the one that he gets ... The adventure evoked a quality of his character that he didn't know he possessed.'

You are still relatively young in the stages of life, still building for the future and accumulating the baggage that becomes the focus at mid-life. It is a plus that you have begun that process of individuation so early. If you are or have used an analyst to help you in your journey/process then it may suggest you have realized early there are underlying influences that have deterred you from being that whole self, the true self. You have a long road to travel but at least you have identified a true source that will help you through it. Most never realize the need let alone possesses the courage to achieve wholeness. You are hero in the deepest sense of being.

As much as I am a student of Jung and devoted to the process of wholeness it is Joseph Campbell who has provided the tools that has helped me through that process. And as much as I know the journey is psychological it is mythology that has supplied the universal concepts that helped me identify my 'identity, behind the mask of the ego. What is true on the highest level {collective unconscious} is also true in the individual. Mythology is the collective experiences and they reflect all of the individual experiences. Identifying which fits your life can be illuminating. Illumination is what identifies the true self.
Myth is a collective dream, the dream a personal myth

What is your personal myth? Is Cinderella a good example for your shadow? Or a simpler archetype as in The Beauty and the Beast? There are so many aspects to Jungian psyche that must be explored to gain the greatest insights to the self. Dreams supplement the conscious understanding, a direct link to the unconscious. But they are but one tool to achieving individuation. I'll let your analyst help you with your deeper understanding of dreams since he has the benefit of the knowledge of who you are through therapy. I may be able to assist you in the interpretation of your dreams but I will also provide my understanding of the process in other ways, related to the unconscious dream but not solely dreams themselves.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: Blue fish

Let me respond with caution since I do not have the benefits of an in-depth analysis of your life as does your analyst. That is professional advice you need to consider and what I offer can only supplement that service he provides. I do have a few comments I hope will be helpful in your understanding of Jungian psyche and your 'individuation'.


I actually am not working with an Analyst any longer. The woman who is assisting me now in inner child work is not a Jungian either. She is actually an hour away and I chose her because she is the only person close enough who knows a lot of the work of Jung and Freud. However she is not vested into the work as a Jungian. She does not help me analyze my dreams. She does ask me though if I have dreams I want to talk to her about which to me is different than having someone work through them with you.

How long have you been working with your Individuation Process?


I began the dream work in the summer of 2009. Interestingly enough there was a significant synchronicity involved in this letting me know it was meant to be.

My experience is that process is a long path to travel. The discovery of the true self {fish} takes time and most importantly discipline. I believe it is a process of understanding and not just a measure of dreaming. What causes us to be who we are comes with the knowledge to the underlying stimuli, experiences and influences from earlier life. Most often that begins, if not solely the roots, in childhood.


If there are barriers built by the conscious self to those causes then it is the process of removing those 'walls' that becomes most important.

This is what I feel my issues are. But removing them is not so easy… Especially if there are issues that are deeply connected.

My experience was not barriers as much as it was not consciously knowing the underlying influences. Once I began to understand the process and where to look it was a matter of discipline to stay with it until I realized the full extent of my early life experiences/influences that were controlling who I was as an adult. It was deconstruction of who I was to understand who I am.

Then the process turned to 'reconstructing' a new identity based on a formula of the hero journey.


This change began during my awakening which started around 2003… I saved myself so to speak. But the exterior I had to build to do this is now what inhibits my growth.

The journey is as much psychological as it is physical but the ultimate realization is of the 'metaphysical', the true self combined with a developed sense of meaning that is rooted in a spiritual/creative identity. Moving from the strict zones of time and space to the open areas of the here and now. Not relying on a subjective view of self and the world but also an objective view. Behind the barriers is a mirror and the reflection is of the soul {spiritual/creative}. I believe true individuation takes place when you reach that plateau.


Yes I am sure it does, reaching the breaking point of the ego or finding a way to have it relinquish illusory throne…. From what I know it is not commonly accomplished in one lifetime, except on rare occasions such as Jesus, Buddha and others.



Where do you think you are on that path?


I can’t tell you…. Currently I feel like I am in limbo, like there is truly a blockage. Something I am not able to neither connect to nor see that is inhibiting me. In this it leaves me also feeling that I am not at all connected to the physical world yet not connected to the process the way I need to be either. Like a dark night yet not as bad because my ego would eventually lay down and allow my Self to come forward more. (which would show up in my dreams and hasn’t) My dreams finally seem to have my true animus showing up but there is still conflict there with the shadow.

I know when I am connected because of the synchronicities and things that occur. I need to be more grounded yet when I attempt to do the inner work it seems like it only makes the rift larger.

You state you stop having big dreams. I don't believe that alone suggest you have stopped progressing,


I believe we are always progressing. But there is a difference in progressing generally as life allows and progressing within the work. When one continues to work through the barriers the progress is at a higher pace than just the norm of society, as society is largely unconscious and it is both on the the individual and also collective level. When we dream in general it is for our subconscious to work through things that occur in daily life, engaging in the dreams and paying attention to the subconscious changes things and they being to speak to you. It is paying attention to the dreams and also what occurs during the waking hours that changes the pace. As the man that I was working with stated simply, it is meditating with your eyes open.

T he blockage you spoke of may merely be a part of the process. I have had few 'big dreams' in my journey but recognized them when they occurred. And they always corresponded with waking life experiences. I hit those walls several times in my journey and when looking back I realized they too were a part of the process. From the Power of Myth:
'The achievement of the hero is one that he is ready for and it's really a manifestation of his character. It's amusing the way in which the landscape and conditions of the environment match the readiness of the hero. The adventure that he is ready for is the one that he gets ... The adventure evoked a quality of his character that he didn't know he possessed.'

You are still relatively young in the stages of life, still building for the future and accumulating the baggage that becomes the focus at mid-life. It is a plus that you have begun that process of individuation so early.


I believe there is such a thing as an old soul…. I am quite different and know this. Many never look inwards to the extent which I have at any age, that in its self separates me from most of society.

If you are or have used an analyst to help you in your journey/process then it may suggest you have realized early there are underlying influences that have deterred you from being that whole self, the true self.


Which is key for me…. My life has made me who I am but I realize there is much more than just this physical life. My search early on left me to look for meaning in my suffering (which I have not entirely resolved yet) however I do know that this is part of the process. I have not found such resonance and truth in anything else I had invested myself into prior and now I am able to incorporate things into my life that I did not understand to the degree I do now before (as everything being related to this core foundation)…..Which tells me I am on the right path.
I understand the quote you have posted above and feel I know why I am in the circumstances I am in. I can only hope that you are right in saying that the “walls are part of the process.”
You have a long road to travel but at least you have identified a true source that will help you through it. Most never realize the need let alone possesses the courage to achieve wholeness. You are hero in the deepest sense of being.


Thank you…. I believe this is the true meaning of the Christian term being saved…

As much as I am a student of Jung and devoted to the process of wholeness it is Joseph Campbell who has provided the tools that has helped me through that process. And as much as I know the journey is psychological it is mythology that has supplied the universal concepts that helped me identify my 'identity, behind the mask of the ego. What is true on the highest level {collective unconscious} is also true in the individual. Mythology is the collective experiences and they reflect all of the individual experiences. Identifying which fits your life can be illuminating. Illumination is what identifies the true self.
Myth is a collective dream, the dream a personal myth


I understand where you have connected and why…. For me though it is different.
The Jungian analyst I speak of wrote this

“In the 11th hour, an alliance has been formed in secret, deep in the
collective unconscious between Buddhism (Tibetan...not the Hollywood version) & Christianity (not the Solar version) brokered by Jungian Psychology...”


Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Truly I say to you, Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Individuation I feel extends beyond the individual/collective myth. I believe its truth is profoundly important to the individual and the whole of society which is why I take it so seriously.
When one raises/lowers their spiritual vibration they exist differently not only in the physical sense but in spirit. This is how things change not only physically but also in the subconscious and collective level.

Individuation=ascension….


What is your personal myth? Is Cinderella a good example for your shadow? Or a simpler archetype as in The Beauty and the Beast?


I will continue to explore of course, but do not have a personal myth….I have worked with Caroline Myss’s book sacred contracts before when I began searching for understanding which introduced me to archetypes, but found this to be more superficial for me as I was not able to connect to these archetypes on the level intended perhaps. I have not found a process that works for me to help me to religiously stay connected to what is going on in life and simultaneously understand it on a deeper level aside from the dream work. But of course that is for now. I am sure when the time comes it will happen.

There are so many aspects to Jungian psyche that must be explored to gain the greatest insights to the self. Dreams supplement the conscious understanding, a direct link to the unconscious. But they are but one tool to achieving individuation. I'll let your analyst help you with your deeper understanding of dreams since he has the benefit of the knowledge of who you are through therapy. I may be able to assist you in the interpretation of your dreams but I will also provide my understanding of the process in other ways, related to the unconscious dream but not solely dreams themselves.


Of course… Many thanks…

stats from 7-14-10 to the present