Dream Analysis/Interpretation by Dream Analyst
Gerald Gifford {at Forum #1}

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Mouse in Breast

Hello Jerry and all,

I feel quite distressed after last night's sleep-walking nightmare. (I regularly sleep-walk/act out my dreams.) Nightmares are so common for me that horrific ones don't usually upset me. This was an exception though, as it produced high and ongoing emotion. I would love some help if you have any ideas of what could be going on.

It began with the horrific sensation that a mouse was in my bloodstream. I was sure it was under my ribs on the right side. I sat up in bed and could feel it sticking out of my side. I was trying to hold its body from outside the skin hoping I could coax it back from where it got in before it went further into my body. The feeling was unbearable until I realized it was a dream and became conscious. I then drifted back to sleep. But soon after I leapt out of bed, ran to the bathroom and ripped off my top. The mouse was now in my right breast. I could feel it still alive and panicking its way through my breast. The feeling was the most awful one. I was screaming and crying until I became conscious enough to realize once again that I was in a dream. I made my way back to bed, but had such a horrible feeling of distress and one of deep aloneness.

Thank you in advance for your time.
Angela

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 42 UK

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Mouse in Breast

Angela,
Let me take a look at your dream later today or in the morning when I am feeling better and have all my senses in tact {head cold}. But let me ask you this. You state you have regular nightmares and sleep walk. Are there known reasons for the nightmares? Have you consulted a physician about the nightmares and sleepwalking? Since this dream had more energy to it than most it may signify something, perhaps an important change in your life.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

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Re: Mouse in Breast

Hi Jerry,

Thank you so much for responding despite that awful cold. I do hope it clears off quickly for you.

That was a pertinent question you asked.
Over the past 11 years I've been desperately seeking what has caused the sleep walking, nightmares and hypnagogic hallucinations. I've had them for as long as I can remember -- since childhood. It has surfaced in the last year that there is a strong likelihood of childhood sexual interference. Only a week ago I wrote and inquired about this in a letter to one of my parents. I am in the waiting stage now for either a response or non-response.

So, that's what's on the table, if it's any help in catching that mouse!

Thanks Jerry.

Angela

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 42 UK

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Mouse in Breast

Angela,
Your response probably explains a lot about your nightmares and perhaps your sleepwalking. Childhood trauma, when not properly consciously resolved, will present itself in the unconscious dreams. Dreams are a therapeutic device to help the dreamer resolve psychological conflicts {and sometimes physical}. Most people will have ordinary dreams and occasional nightmares due to emotional experiences addressing emotional conflicts which often become more numerous in later life/mid-life when the focus is on the past}. But some like yourself will have such experiences manifest in regular nightmares. The 'experiences' are in your bloodstream' sort of speak because of the trauma that occurred in childhood.

This dream may be a response to your recent awareness of those childhood experiences. Being the first of such dreams it will be important to record future dreams since they will begin to reveal any repressed emotions as well as actual experiences {dreams speak in a language of symbols and metaphor} that are at the root of your psychological conflict and nightly dreams. Writing to your parents is a first step in finding out what may have happened that was so horrific in your childhood. That is if they know the answer and/or are willing to provide them. It could be they do not and the experiences at the root of your trauma lay elsewhere. But it is an important first step and even more important for you to explore and determine what it was that causes your nightmares. Left unresolved they will only become worse, in your unconscious as well as conscious life. Sexual trauma during childhood is often repressed. If at an age so young that there are no memories {earliest memories often do not begin until teh age of four} the experiences can still be locked in the unconscious and have an influence later in life. If there were childhood sexual trauma it is so important to discover what they were so a healing can begin. Dreams can be an important part of that discovery, and healing, since they are a direct connection to the unconscious.

As for your dream it does seem to fit a first time realization of something that is an emotional conflict. Dreams reflect both the current waking experiences {It has surfaced in the last year that there is a strong likelihood of childhood sexual interference} as well {at the same time} address the actual childhood experiences that are in conflict. The childhood trauma, if true, is 'in your blood stream' and has strong emotional energy {blood is often symbolic of emotional energy} that needs to be recognized, acknowledged and resolved. You probably have repressed these experiences {I was trying to hold its body from outside} and need to 'coax' the memories out. The 'unbearable memories are becoming conscious'. What you do not what to do is to continue to repress what needs to be let out {drifting back to sleep/unconscious}. Ripping off your top in the dream may be metaphor for 'ripping out the memories in your head'. Plus it could be an actual experience where your clothing was ripped off {**see below}. Those 'awful'
feelings from the past are still within you {breast}. The ripping of the 'top' would be at the breasts, an actual experience. The traumatic experiences are yours alone, something you are now fully becoming aware of.

If traumatic experiences are so severe it is not uncommon for them to become nightmares. For you they have become constant nightmares. There is a good chance that once you resolve the emotional conflicts the nightmares will end. The sleepwalking may also have to do with the psychological events that are at the root of your nightmares.

Have you had consultations for your nightmares and sleepwalking? Since you have just recently begun to explore possible childhood experiences your dreams will reflect those experiences as well as any childhood experiences that are at the foundations to your nightmares. Recording and interpreting future dreams will assist you in the discovery of what the experiences were that are the cause of any emotional conflict. Of course if your parents can supply any info that would be of great assistance. Seeking help will be important, a psychologist or therapist. Many psychologists are now using Jungian psyche to explore dreams. And of course you can always post your dreams at the Dream Forum {I am not a psychologist but I can help with the interpretations of your dreams}. You may discover a lot of disturbing information about your past if there are childhood sexual experiences. It is important to go all the way with those discoveries since it is in the understanding what happened during childhood that will ultimately lead to a healing {this is true for everyone no matter the experiences in childhood}. Mid life is a turning point in life, a time when we begin to look back and see the psychological 'baggage' accumulated in life. We all require some healing to some extent.

If you can remember a future dream that deals in more detail, especially a dream that features a child or children in them, that dream may reveal actual experiences. Post those dreams and perhaps we can get a clearer picture to actual experiences from childhood. Also you may want to explore more on Jungian dream psychology beginning with my page A Simple Guide to Dreams.

**see below Jung tells us all dreams have at least two applications or meanings. One will address current waking life experiences or more recent emotional conflicts. The other will address the deeper emotional conflicts including childhood experiences. It is in childhood experiences and influences that are at the root of who we are and become as adults and any unresolved emotional conflicts will be the focus of dreams in later life.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: Mouse in Breast

Hi Jerry,
Thank you so very much for such an in-depth reply. I liked how you connected the ‘trying to coax the mouse out’ with the attempt to coax the memory. And both the physical connection of ripping the top off as an actual possibility, along with the metaphorical attempt to remove the unbearable feelings within; and the act of trying to get hold of my discomfort as I grab at the frantically moving mouse in my breast.

I’m finding that the intensity of this situation and the feelings from this dream in particular do not seem to want to settle, perhaps because there are no straight-up answers yet, or memory. I will definitely be watching and recording future dreams and active sleep experiences. I am so grateful to know I can bring some here that could have relevance.
In fact, I can recall some right now that I’ve had through this past year. Many are quite sad dreams of little baby girls.

1) There was a baby at the foot of my bed crying and crying and crying.
2) I was to look after a baby, but had only just realized that she was suffering malnutrition and worried it was too late for her.
3) A little girl was enduring inner torture. A man hiding behind a newspaper would emit a high pitched squealing sound that was supposed to bring her some relief.
4) A baby girl was on a table as if in surgery and odd shaped (mostly organic) items were being removed from every orifice. I did not know if she could survive the pain.

Do you think the mouse from the originally posted dream has any direct significance? I’m having trouble associating it with anything personal. Except... I am remembering now that last year I found a family of 11 mice under my sink...! I thought there were only 2 or 3 at first, but as I set the trap each night, by the 11th night I was floored that there was yet another one there. Each was tinier than the one caught the day before. A real family reunion seemed to be going on under there!

Well, thank you so much again Jerry. I really appreciate your time on this.
Angela.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 42 UK

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Mouse in Breast

Angela,
As a young child memories start to form that can be remembered and the list you provided my have relevance to your early life experiences. A baby would not likely have the capacity to retain such memories {although the more we learn about the ability for very young children to learn there may be more to be discovered about such possibilities}. What is retained in the psyche of an infant could be something the unconscious would provide in a dream. As a child such possibilities become more likely. Thus the about a little girl could be addressing real experiences. It really depends on the context in which the little girl is featured in a dream. The inner torture of the little girl could be a reference to both early life experiences as well as a reference to the 'inner child', pointing to adult personal growth that is suffering {which in itself could be a result of early life experience}.

The high pitched sound you mentioned could be symbolic or it could have been a sound associated with actual experiences. The man would be an important element. But again we would need a complete dream to understand the relevance.

As for the items being removed from every orifice, that cold be a reference to real experiences. The organic part could be a play on the word 'organ' which of course could represent the phallus. When we look up the definition of organic {which is something that could provide insights to possibilities to the symbolic meaning when there is no other source of reference or explanation} we get:
(pathology) involving or affecting physiology or bodily organs; "an organic disease"
That could point to actual experiences, bodily organs as well as the reference to disease which would be a reference to the psychological disturbance you suffer from as an adult due to childhood trauma
Of course this is all speculative and we would need complete dreams to better understand the possibilities.

As for the mouse. The experience with the mice would be a stimulus for actual memories using the mouse as a symbolic reference. The actual experience, the eleven mice and thinking there were only two or three, may be a reference to the number of experiences that will be coming forth when the unconscious psyche releases its grip on any repressed memories. They will begin to multiply. Each one was 'thinner', not something remembered, but together they represent a family, the whole host of memories of past experiences. Dreams have a strange way of using symbols and each has to be looked at in every possible direction to understand.

Have you had any counseling with these possible abusive experiences? Or is just recently you have begun to think about the possibilities? We don't want to place 'false memories' into the possibilities. But if you do have suspicions about such experiences then all we have spoken of are probably relevant.

I do suggest you keep a diary of future dreams. It is often hard to remember dreams so it would be important to train the psyche to write down the dream exactly as you remember it as soon as you awake. After some time this will be easier to do. It may be easier to have a cassette recorder to record the dream and then write it down for posting later. Any waking emotions about the dream could be important also. Where there are such traumatic experiences from the past like this they usually come in a series of dreams. Each will reveal something about the past and with proper attention and interpretation you will be able to delve deeper into the psyche which could release the whole experiences that may have been repressed. If the dreams were from very early childhood there may not be complete memories that come forth but there may be enough to reveal actual experiences. If there was this suspected childhood abuses then you may want to seek counseling so to be able to properly work through the process of healing.

Let's see what future dreams provide. Continue investigating other avenues to your childhood and see where that leads. That alone may bring about memories, and dreams, that reveal relevant info about your past.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: Mouse in Breast

Thank you so much, Jerry.

I don’t think I could possibly say any of what I’ve revealed so far without near certainty of the hunches I’ve been following. It’s been 11 years of feeling an inkling that something was wrong, but it’s only been after 2 years of psychotherapy and one year since the topic was broached, that I’ve actually begun to come to terms with this as a potential reality. I continue to battle fraudulent feelings because of the lack of memory, but I am told my symptomatology is sound, encompassing not only the nightmares/terrors, sleep-walking, etc, but other childhood experiences and repeated adult traumas. It is only now that I’ve felt strong enough to start talking. I've accepted that it seems to be the only way to get to the bottom of this before it gets to the bottom of me.

And so, right on cue, here come the babies... Last night I dreamt of 11 of them! Just like the mice under the sink and just like the number of years I’ve been on the trail of this! (Gosh, we take a long time to break through to ourselves, don’t we? )

11 Basement Babies
I’m a part of some kind of report that involves 4 or 5 of us. There are lots of boxes and heaps of items in the way, making it difficult to reach to each other. I was trying to help by getting something to the farthest away man. I go down to the basement to retrieve it and find naked children (babies, toddlers and young children) down a corridor all huddled down in foetal positions to keep warm it appears. They have bright responsive eyes, but they look so cold and helpless. I suddenly take on a masculine voice, which does not feel like my own, and I say gruffly to them: “Get some clothes on!” I then spot a large male body at the end of the corridor. He is also naked and has a couple of the children lying on his body. I am repulsed and say again sternly for the children to get dressed. None move. I run back upstairs and find a woman from the original group. She is about 65 or 70 and I say I have something pressing to tell her. She thinks it’s about one of the women working with us and is trying to give excuses for her when I finally break through to her. I grab hold of her hands and say what I’ve seen in the basement. I count the children in my mind and say there are 11 down there. As I say this I am feeling more and more horrified and know I need to get back down to the basement to save the children.

How helpful it’s been to receive your responses. Thank you again, Jerry.
Angela

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 42 UK

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Mouse in Breast

Angela,
Let me examine your response later today and provide a follow-up tomorrow morning. The social dragon summons me {work}. The numbers, especially the number 11, may be significant. I'll look the current posted dream and see what may be there.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Re: Mouse in Breast

Angela,
A brief response to your dream while I have a break before having more work to do later this morning.

The numbers 4 or 5, and 11 could be very relevant. As I stated in my earlier post it is around that age a child begins to have distinct memories. Any abnormal experiences {although a child would not understand sexual or severe psychological abuse as something bad they would know it is not a normal thing} would be stored within the unconscious, deeper in the psyche {heaps/layers of boxes see possible definition of boxes here} because the experiences where so early in life.

Your dream statement 'I go down to the basement to retrieve it and find naked children (babies, toddlers and young children)' could indicate experiences from those earlier stages of life. Cold and helpless would not be an uncommon description of a new born but a young child in that position would be. Where does this 'corridor lead to' in the application to real experiences? The large male 'naked' with a couple of children laying on his body.

Normally I would look a such language as purely symbolic, especially at your age. The repulsive response to the masculine voice that does not 'feel like your own' along with the other images is language that seems for literal than just symbolic.
Of course this is my knowing there are possibilities of very early life experiences that would make the symbols different from the norm.

I'll have to stop here. We can look at the older woman later. I do notice the numbers as listed as 65 or 70. 6+5+7+0=18=9. Then the number 11 again is mentioned. A psyche that is in emotional conflict {11} seeking balance and harmony {9}.

You need to get back to the basement to save the babies. In Jungian dream psyche the characters in a dream are representative of the dreamer. This is the task before you, rescuing that wounded child, literal of you as a child as well as symbolic of the 'inner child', the wounded psychological self.

Jerry

Note: It may not be a random thing that you stated '4 or 5' since when you add these numbers together you get 9. This is the number of wholeness, a 'collective' number that the psyche recognizes and distributes in various aspects during life. See my page on the
number nine at Secrets of Nine.

The number 11 when added together is two, symbolic of duality, conflict, between two parts of yourself. 1 vs 1, opposing opposites but sharing the same physical being. Something is in conflict psychologically if not physically.

And then you get to the naked babies. These could be both symbolic and literal, especially if there were emotional experiences as a toddler when the psyche is still relative young and developing, and where the emphasis would be on the literal {older adults, after the age of 35-40 tend to have mostly symbolic imagery in dreams}. This may very well be breaking through to actual early life experiences as a toddler {4 or 5 is past the infant stage but the experiences could have started even earlier}. As well as new realizations of those experiences.

I'll address th old woman later. I can't help but notice the numbers 65 or 70. 6+5+7+0=18. 1+8=9. Nine is the number for wholeness, a function of the dream as a therapeutic device. But there is the number 11. Conflict. You will need to get back to the basement to save these babies. In Jungian dream psyche unnamed persons are symbolic references to the dreamer. The babies would be the dreamer. What may need to be saved is that wounded child and although deep in the unconscious the wounds are real. What influences those wounds have had on your life, that is where the healing needs to take place.

Dreams do not speak in fraudulent language. You may have fraudulent memories but not the dream. The dream means exactly what is says. Determining the literal from the symbolic is the task at hand. The indication in this dream seems to be saying these experiences were real.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

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Re: Mouse in Breast

Jerry, many thanks again.

The number breakdown is really interesting. If the 11 is representing conflict, well, I can vouch that is certainly going on within. And if 9 represents wholeness, and both 4 or 5 and the 65 – 70 equal 9, then it must mean there is some kind of search for wholeness happening within my psyche too, which does provide a modicum of relief during this disturbing time.

I too think it is quite a task to determine the literal from the symbolic in dreams. I have seen most of my dreams as symbolic and have been amazed by what they have shown me over the years. But I keep finding myself in different territories now, with these odd voices for example. And the feeling component on waking is distinctly different too, often with much more intense and persistent feelings. I suppose it may be the case I will never have any information and therefore never know if the dreams are displaying literal components or not. But talking about them does help.

Thank you for creating this space and for your generosity of time – a testament to the power of the greater consciousness of mankind.

Angela

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 42 UK

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Mouse in Breast

Angela,
I also suggest for anyone past the age of 40 to look at dream symbols as symbolic. The literal possibilities would be about the actual experiences. The 'mouse in the bloodstream' would be symbolic in almost** instances. The 'running to the bathroom and ripped off my top' would be symbolic in its application to the dream message but could also be a reference to a literal experience {staying true to the concept that all dreams, and symbols, have at least two meanings}. Look at the dream as symbolic unless there are close loved ones involved {family, partners, very close people in your life}. Then they could be literal in their application but would do so in the context to the relationship to the dreamer {your dreams are about you and not them}.

**There is another application where a literal meaning may be involved. If there is a physical condition of the body that needs your attention then the 'mouse in the bloodstream' could represent that physical condition. The mouse may be something 'small' yet 'menacing' in the energy filed of your being {bloodstream}. It still is using symbolic language but is addressing a literal physical condition. The location of the symptoms, under my ribs on the right side, could be the actual location of the physical condition. Have you experienced conscious physical pain in those areas? It may be it is a physical condition not yet known consciously. The unconscious can know before it becomes conscious.
Having to 'coax it up' could apply to a physical need as well as a psychological one. The unbearable feelings also can fit with that application.

The whole dream does fit that pattern of possibilities. But I caution not to jump to conclusions unless you have sincere suspicions about such physical condition. If that is true it may be wise to see a physician. Dreams are a direct link to the unconscious mind and anything within the psyche can be known unconsciously before it is conscious. Just as with a stimulus from a recent waking experience, a sound, a picture, a person, that takes you back to a past emotional experience, so to the physical condition can take you to a physical condition that is not consciously known. That application is sort of a 'deja vu' type thing from a dream. A physical condition would fit with the dream's intent to inform the dreamer of a condition that is out of balance, just as it does psychologically. A therapeutic value I personally believe is a part of nature's mechanism, just as the immune system is with the body.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

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