Lon,
I believe we have addressed the present day issues of caution and a self-conscious personality. The reasons for this self-conscious attitude and forming relationship with women, or the lack of abilities to do so, why you have a hard time with such relationships, would be the next thing that we would need to examine.
Attitudes and personality traits are formed throughout life but the first years of life are the most important. Influences/experiences during childhood and adolescence strongly shape the person in later years. What influences/experiences were there in your early life that now cause you to be so defensive/defenseless when it comes to forming relationships, particularly with women?

First let me comment again on the two aspects of a dream that the unconscious psyche attempts to focus and present to the conscious mind.

The first aspect your dream is addressing is your present personality traits. Self-conscious about yourself especially when it comes to women. You are a very cautious person, staying to yourself, not venturing far from the safe confines you have created for yourself.

The second would be the foundations for these present attitudes/traits. Why are this person? What experiences/influences in early life have made you this way?

Dreams do address more than one issue in the dreamer's life, sometimes more than just two issues. It is common for the dream to focus on present day experiences, especially for a younger person who is still in the process of 'forming' a life. These issues would be emotional, stressful, and usually negative {dreams also address the positive aspects but since such experiences hold less emotional energy and do not need to be 'worked out' less frequent}. Because dreams are therapeutic, an evolution of nature, they seek to help you 'work through' the emotional conflicts, help you resolve the stressful, emotional experiences you are confronted with during your waking life.

Then there are the foundations to why you act/react to certain situations, emotional stress in your waking life. Understanding these foundations are key to resolving the issues. You know you are under a lot of stress and are having a hard time coping with the emotional issues. But why do you react to such situations the way you do? What do you have a hard time forming relationships, particularly with women? This is the second aspect of the dream is trying o help resolve.
In a younger person such issues may not yet be at the forefront in life since the outer focus is on forming a life. In an older person it is different. At mid-life when the outer life begins to change {the children are grown, the career is formed, the dog has died and the focus, at least unconsciously, goes from looking forward to looking back}. An older person's dreams, especially for anyone who consciously undertakes a path of self discovery, tend to focus on the foundations of who the person is. The question of 'meaning' becomes important. The meaning of a person's life becomes the primary issue and this is reflected in their dreams.

Note: My position on the therapeutic value of dreams is they are a natural process, much like the immune system is to the body. The unconscious mind seeks to resolve those waking issues that are in emotional conflict, and the underlying foundations to the reasons of personality/attitudes that play in how one confronts and handles life's stressful situations.

Back to your dream
Why are you so self conscious and why do you have problems forming relationships, particularly with women? Something has made you 'turn your back' on the 'green scenery', positive outlook on certain aspects of life. What are those things?

In the dream there is a man holding a gun. The man is probably you in some aspects, but also someone else.
There is a relationship between the 'two'. This other man wears 'similar style clothes' suggesting there are commonalities between the two. This other man is in teh 'wrong', he has done something wrong that has left a strong emotional imprint on your 'young' psyche. A good clue to this other man would be teh dream statement:

The gun-man then shape-shifts into the appearance of the man in orange and then back (possibly into the appearance of the woman as well), almost as a display of how much power he has over them.

The power over them. One of 'them' would be you and the other 'them' a woman. The prime 'suspect' would of course be the father, you the child, the woman your mother. But it could be someone else. Or it could be something deficient in your own physical mind that took an experiences and made into something that negative. We will need to look at all possibilities. Your responses will go a long way in discerning what is true, as did your first response which clarified a lot of what I suspected.

What experiences in early life associated with your father could be the foundations to why you are who you are today? Was it your father who was holding the gun? I think this is the second aspect of the dream, the focus on the foundations to your personality and the 'digging' into the psyche to understand these foundations. But what are they?

Let's stop here and give you a chance to examine the relationship with your father and see what may be there that would cause emotional wounds strong enough to cause you to be who you are today. Also look back to early life and determine who other than your father would fit the following dream description:

he’s an adored, well-known celebrity or political figure.
Look at the political figure reference as symbolic of someone who hold power, the celebrity as someone who is capable of influence.

Whoever this person is, he is still unconsciously controlling your actions.
subconsciously saying what he’s been doing with us and continuing to do.

The 'what he has been doing and continuing to do' may be a clue. It could be a reference to the continuing influence from early life but it could also be a clue that this person still exists.

This is a long dream and the focus is probably on both aspects I have described. Perhaps that is a reason it is so long {of course your ability to remember in such detail being important}, there are deep issues involved related to the present and the past. Who you are and why you are that person.

And we have yet to get to the 'raunchy' aspects of the dream. The transsexual that 'seems to be perfectly normal as if that’s what’s expected'. Perhaps there is a third issue that needs resolution.

Tomorrow is Sunday, the one day of the week when I have time to focus on my dream work.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn. USA

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

The majority of my dreams I remember in great detail and in general I don't forget things. I'm not good with remembering facts word for word but the gist of what people have said, how they said it, when they said it, what they did and how they did it. How entire situations play out. I can't turn my mind off easily.

When you brought up the connections between the characters in the beginning and my parents, a lot of memories and feelings arose.
There are a few things that are worth mentioning. The 1970s guy is very much like my Dad, not in appearance but his personality was very laid back and the clothes he wore is definitely how my Dad would have dressed when he was younger. The colours of his clothes (orange and brown, earthy, along with the green behind him) are my favourite colours.

The woman was dressed much more neatly and she had an 'official' vibe about her. She seemed either like someone from an office, an FBI agent, a cop or her clothes were all black and non-inspiring colours. This is very much my Mum but as I would think of her as a kid. I also have a sister and she would also fit this description.

As for the gun man, his clothes and appearance were not clear in the beginning but him and the 1970s man both seemed of the same era. However, the gun-mans clothes were more official (eg. leather jacket, white shirt).

After displaying his shape-shifting powers, it was clear to them (and to me) that his identity was unknown. The appearance he first used could have been someone else's identity. He was unknown.


As a child I was very reckless and non-cautious. I was always shy of people but was also willing to speak to strangers if it was on my own terms. I would run away from home a lot or disappear but I never thought of it like that, I thought I was off on an adventure. The jungle scene behind the 1970s man, is a good example of the places I would look for.

My Dad worked along with my Mum but if I ever spent time with either of them, it'd be my mother. When I was in trouble, I'd get a smack but I never feared my mother doing this, so she would threaten me by using my Dad to dish them out.

At times I would suck up to my Mum and pretend that the smacks hurt more than they did. She would then nurture me better and reprimand my Dad for being too harsh. This arose when you mentioned the situation at the beginning of the dream.
The gun-man clearly lies and the woman doesn't take the time to hear out the 1970s man, immediately siding with the gun-man.


As far as sex, relationships and the topic of women goes...
From a young age I was ridiculed by my family if I had a girl-friend or knew girls. I always felt like I was doing something wrong. I saw this in other families, so it seems pretty common but I felt I was ‘up to no good’. As I got older this feeling of being, ‘up to no good’ felt as if people now saw me as a pervert. Regarding sex or pornography, it didn’t interest me until I was way past the normal age. I still thought about it of course but compared to guys my own age, I was more interested in the same things that I was into as a kid.
When I finally did get a girlfriend in my late teens, I was very cautious about letting my family know.


The subject of sex in my family was almost never brought up. If it did get raised, it would be with my Dad. If a nude scene or scene hinting at sex appeared on a movie the family was watching, the tv screen would be covered, turned off, skipped etc. If it was a naked man, the reaction would be neutral or laughter. This again, seems pretty common.
At present, any scenes involving intimacy between a man and woman (kissing or just talk of love) makes me feel uncomfortable (in the fight or flight way). However, if nobody else is in the room with me while I’m watching it, it doesn’t bother me.
Another thing is, I never saw my parents intimate with each other.

As I got older, I became closer with my Dad and drifted away from my Mum. I’ve heard this is pretty common. I should mention that my parents got divorced. I didn’t feel bothered by this at the time (quite the opposite) but I’m sure it caused a long lasting thing. The distance between my Mum and I grew and I felt like she didn’t see me as her son but a random man.
I became even more self-conscious as a teenager. I didn’t want to be seen as a girl or feminine in any way. I’ve spoken to other guys about this and it seems like a common thing for guys growing up.

I was always encouraged with my creativity as a kid (drawing, music and whatever else fits there) but in high school it was discouraged by my parents. I stuck with it anyway, the entire time being told it wouldn’t get me anywhere - “it’s time to wake up to reality”, they would say. When I think of possibilities of what I could do, I picture or get the feeling of nature-like scenes - Green, field, forest, jungle, sunset, beach etc.


The celebrity, political figure could be my father.
He is extraverted/outgoing and knows many people. Being a leader of some sort, guru or wise-man is something I’ve always wanted to become. Somebody that stands alone and is admired for it. My Dad isn’t entirely like this but I’m thinking that’s the first impression people would make of him. He also held the power to dish out punishment or fear. My family kept to themselves a lot (plus we travelled a lot) so I don’t think it could be anyone but my Dad because we didn't stay around many folks - my grandfather, maybe?

My parents are both very critical and perfectionistic. My Mum showed me with her actions but my Dad told me with his words. This could be the gun? it’s rubbed off on me and I’ve been extremely verbal with people about how they’re doing something the ‘wrong’ or ‘right’ way. Since I’ve noticed, I’ve stopped or at least calmed it down a bit. In turn, I’ve become very critical of others that do this exact same thing.
I had more experiences and lectures from my father about doing things “properly” or “right”. I would always pass on the chance to show people things I’d made or done, but when I did try to show them, I’d be so nervous I’d stuff it up entirely or do a half-arsed effort because I felt perceived as “pretentious”. I would definitely see this as being held at gun point.

I get a strong feeling in my family that weakness shouldn’t be shown, especially towards the men. Men don’t have worries or troubles, yet females do. This sounds stupid but I’ve always gotten this impression. I’ve had many dreams where a known woman (usually a celebrity or somebody I don’t know personally) contain male genitals. I stumbled across Jung’s stuff and saw alchemical pictures of the hermaphrodite etc and figured that’s what it was, but they are always “women” in dreams not really a mixture of both. I’ve also seen how a gun can represent the male organ or the power behind it.
You mentioned it could represent passive-aggressiveness. I struggle with this, especially with my girlfriend. I have trouble expressing my feelings clearly. Outside my home, I find it easier to say what I’m feeling. Then again, I only have male friends and don’t see my family that much.


I tried to put everything in here that I felt was important. I’ve looked through it a few times and cut it down a bit. Tell me if anything isn’t clear...

thanks again..

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 27 Australia

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Lon,
I appreciate your willingness to share personal information. Your co-operation is allowing us to examine your dream and life, comparing the two and seeing associations from both. In the final analysis it is the dreamer who must tie everything together. The dream is the true person, the true emotions, truth unfiltered and unadulterated. It is who you were and who you have become.

Let's focus on the gun in the dream. There is a good possibility the gun in 'one aspect' represents sexual attitudes. The man holding the gun is in conflict with the first man. Yet he is similar in style and at first glance it is thought he is 'on his own'. But the 'relaxed view' is the green scenery.

I point to two aspects of the above commentary that points to two people with similarities. One would be you and the other your father. In your latest response indicates conflict with your father in early life but reconciliation later on. You were on your on in the beginning but in later life the differences were relaxed, the greenery was back in the relationship.

The second would have to do with sexual attitudes. Being sheltered in early life from all sexual 'scenery' could have altered your view of sex in later life. Not having a closeness to either your father nor mother would have prevented a proper and important relationship between child and parents. If you were ridiculed during those formative years because of your female companionship those experiences could have shaped a less productive attitude toward women as an adult {it would be helpful to better understand your father's reasoning for such attitudes}. Your thinking that such behavior toward you by your father was 'common/normal' says a lot since it reveals early attitudes that probably remain as an adult. It could be because of your 'reckless and non-cautious' attitude as a child and the negative response from your parents, any relationship with girls would be construed on your part as also 'being up to no good'. These early life experiences/influences would be the foundations for your evolving psyche, stimuli for the future to you will become as an adult. Father-son relationships are so important in the forming of attitudes, traits and decision making in later years {as are relationships with both parents but with same gender relationships most important}. Like father-like son may not produce exact 'replicas' of son to father but likeness is inevitable because of early life imprinting's on the psyche of the child. Sometimes a boy will be exactly like their father while others will be the opposite. The first would be more common and teh second would be more dependent on other life associations.

Note: I was 'on the surface' unlike my father, particularly in his attitudes of responsibility to family. Yet beneath the surface I was doing much of the same, the common denominator being infidelity. Later on, after I discovered Campbell and Jung I realized my experiences of 'looking for love in all the wrong places', my infidelity, was an unconscious response of seeking the father-son love and relationship I never received as a child. A lack of this non-relationship with my father did not cause me to be unfaithful as a husband {in this marriage only, which was the second of three} but it 'pushed' me to be like my father in that one respect. Not that I consciously knew he was being unfaithful, it was an unconscious response using the strong physical 'need' for sex {Freud} as a substitute for something I never had. I have given this much thought over the past 18 years and I am convinced it to be true, and a norm when there is a lack of proper love and attention as a child {for situations such as mine and many others who used sex as a love substitute due to a less that proper father-son relationship}. Those who think such influences are merely an excuse need to examine their own life and take a course in psychology.
Back to the dream, the gun and your sexuality

'The man with the gun was the bad guy'. This was you, ridiculed for female companionship, the opposite sex. Yet what prompts this 'you' would be the relationship, or lack of, with your parents, in particular you father. The woman who 'comes on the scene' could be your mother in one aspect, and you attitudes toward women later in life in another aspect once again the two aspects of the same symbols used as metaphors for experiences/influences in your life}. Te experience with your mother was more close putting you on the same level as she, as opposed to the 'higher authority' you viewed your father. Attitudes toward women in later life have been formed that 'repulse/confuse' and possible relationships with most women, the level of personalities being a problem.
Question: You do currently have a girlfriend whom you live with. It would be important to know what type person she is. Is she like your mother?

Men don't count as much as women.
This is likely your attitude toward for yourself. In later life you have gotten closer to your father yet drifted away from your mother. It is probably a statement about your own inner feminine qualities which I will speak to later. I feel it is 'natural' to try to get closer to your father {I did the same up until my mid 30s when I realized it was no use-my father was an SOB unto himself, was all his life until his death}. Your attitude toward your mother may or may not be a result of her distancing herself from you, you may be the one who is distancing yourself from her {consider that possibility}. The 'transsexual' reference in your dream may be a 'transition' of thinking /attitudes on your part in association with your father and mother {transition/transsexual being 'one' aspect possibility}.

Transsexual
In your latest response you state you became self-conscious as a teenager {which would fit with your evolution as a person because of early life experiences}. You also state 'I didn't want to be seen as a girl or feminine in any way'. Regardless of the view that this is a 'norm' {this may be a developed attitude used as a defence} such a statement calls for the question 'why would you have this view about your character as being seen as feminine?' Is this speaking to inner feminine qualities of creativity-drawing, music- or other feminine qualities you possess? Was it because of outward feminine traits early in childhood your father ridiculed you? Do you have a person that is outwardly feminine? Some men are mistaken as gay because of such personality traits. I would argue most who do are gay, or have feminine tendencies yet are still heterosexual. Are you 'being held' to standards that do not correctly define who you are because of possible 'feminine' traits? {referring to the dream statement about being held by 'gun point' with the gun reference being about sexuality}. The gun man 'explains to the woman he is the victim'. But 'it is clear', he is wrong { a statement in a dream using such defined wording is often a truth in itself}.

The feminine aspects, in whatever form they represent, are convinced by trickery. The feminine has been taken hostage. The gun-man, you, shakes-shifts/transitions, into a man but also a woman, to show 'his' power. You are now in the picture. Are you yourself or 'some other character'? There are several levels to this question. The real question which fits you most/best.
Here is a 'room', a part of you, that is under surveillance but where deep down you are secure about 'what's going on inside of you'.
The question becomes where does these feminine aspects fit. Is it a transition of thinking or a transition to some other person you want to be, or who you really are? The ground level would be actual true life and being secure with that outer self is important. Are we speaking primarily about early life experiences that transformed you to who you are as an adult or are there other considerations? A good question at this stage may be 'are you secure in your identity, especially your sexual identity? Transsexual as an identity should be clarified so we can either confirm or deny those possibilities.
'The scenario changes and it’s entirely focused on her. She is no-longer blond but brunette and a porn star - and looks very cheap'. Such a commentary would usually be defining inner qualities. But it could be about outer personality, transitions to transsexual. Answering this question can put one possibility to rest. I dare say the transsexual in your dream is about inner identities/emotional conflicts but the wording in teh dream could be a statement otherwise.

Note" Let me state once again that when interpreting dreams the best that can be done is to define the periphery of what the dream message is. Seldom can there be a exact definitive pronouncement that this symbol is a literal truth about the dreamer. A woman in a dream can denote a real woman or it can be saying something about the feminine aspects of teh dreamer. Often it is both, again teh two aspects to every dream. Only the dreamer can say what fits, what is true. Sometimes the truth is repressed and an interpretation will unlock doors so the dreamer will consciously remember. Dream interpretation is a science {thanks to Jung and those who followed his philosophies we understand how dreams function} but there are elements of intuitive understanding required. Those like myself who have a limited 'advanced' education in Jungian psyche the intuitive mind is a reliable source of understanding a dream.

The end of the dream is important. But there is little information about the 'raunchy' aspects other than the transsexual, which is not a 'designation' but what is 'to be expected' {expected of someone who has your early life experiences which has formed your psyche as an adult?}. The changing scene presents the question about control and being taken advantage of. The changing genitals, is that a reference to sexual identity or a question of inner identity that is in conflict due to early life experiences/influences? Having male parts yet 'she' has nothing-parts {the vagina, in a man's view, would be a body without a penis and testicles, nothing parts that make up a 'real man'.

I am asking questions about your dream, something I seldom do when providing an interpretation. But the dream is long and very complicated. And as a willing participant you are the perfect person to discuss the possibilities and get a response. The goal is to define what emotional conflicts are in play and hopefully provide guidelines to resolving those conflicts. That what dreams do, point out emotional conflicts by defining patterns of behavior/attitude/personality. By bringing these unconscious influences to consciousness the dream is helping the dreamer to find ways to resolve/reconcile the conflicts. My purpose, one that fulfills my blissful soul, is to help in understanding the dream language, putting into words that can be understood {Jungian psyche is a difficult thing to comprehend if there is not a propensity to intuitively understand or an education in Jungian psychology}. In doing this I am 'staying the path' of the hero Campbell's monomyth, passing on what I have learned from my travels/adventures. It is a part of the spiritual/creative aspects that is inherent to the hero journey that Joseph Campbell illuminates in his works and what Jung has provided as a part of his Individuation Process. For your purposes I hope it will be of benefit to your questions about your dream and yourself. For my benefit it is an endeavor I greatly enjoy participating in, my bliss.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn. USA

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

My girlfriend whom I live with is a little like my Mum. Actually, a lot like my Mum but elements of both of their personalities are in different places - both of them express them from a different point. My girlfriend is much more social (this is the first impression people get) but appreciates ‘home-time’ more than anything else. Although my girl-friend is very feminine, she doesn’t have female friends (apart from one or two but they have a personality like hers) with the majority of her good friends being males.

My Dad was a stereotyped male. When I think of him early on, I’d describe him as a lumberjack or a rugby player in appearance. He never really got me as a kid. As he got older, he became very gentle and that whole appearance disappeared. He’s even spoken to me about the rough and tough look he had, saying he hated it.

Although I would have gotten the inspiration and enthusiasm for creative activites from my Mum (drawing, writing, music etc), my Dad has been the one that lives it. He doesn’t do the same things as me but he is very expressive and likes to fool around, making people laugh. The majority of his friends are also female.

I have spoken to my Dad about the lack of affection and sexual info that was in our family. I haven’t asked him about why he thought to censor it though, so I’ll do that.


I’ll say that I do feel uncomfortable about going into the ‘raunchy’ details of the dream. I’ll try to give a little clarity though. Any sexual-themed dreams I have, usually happen over a matter of seconds. Everything seems rushed and lumped together.
As the woman approaches me in the room, she goes from being in a light blue dress (and older) to a light blue singlet and white underpants (a girl in her late teens). She seems excited at the thought of what will happen. We embrace and kiss.
I don’t know she takes her clothes off or not but it shows her with an erection in plain site. As soon as I notice this, the dream changes. I didn’t realize this before but just noticing the erection triggered the dream to change (this has happened many times in dreams).

I’m no longer there. She is a pornstar. She is the one penetrating others (girls and other transsexuals). The scenes flash by quickly as if it’s going through a time-line. I think it starts with just her and another but as the scenes progress, she is being penetrated. She stays as a transsexual, until the very last scene when she is closer to a female, I guess.

I mentioned she now looked ‘cheap’. What I mean is, she looked fake (like a pornstar) but not only that, the environment looked filthy and unkempt. The phrase “quantity over quality” sums it up. To use my own words, it’s like eating junkfood that not only looks bad, it tastes bad and is bad for you. Eating it just because. I don’t know if I’m saying this to avoid the issue but that’s the full extent of the feeling I get from the scenes.


As a kid I wasn’t very tall, had no interest in sport, had quite a high voice and laugh to go with it. At times my Dad would say things like, “what are you a woose?” in response to something I did or said but I can’t remember what I’d done for him to say it. I didn’t know what ‘gay’ meant exactly when I was younger, other than what they got up to but even that didn’t completely make sense when I’d been taught about sex.
I did think I was gay during my teenage years for the fact that I didn’t have a girl-friend and because of weird dreams but I don’t think so. I do feel very uncomfortable talking about it.

Were you asking if I had considered becoming a transsexual or saw myself as one? I have thought about it but no serious thoughts. It feels like I’d be betraying everything that I am. I feel the same way about tattoos or piercings.
However, when I was around the age of 3-5 I would get up during the night (had trouble sleeping) and would sometimes dress up in my Mum’s clothes as there was a chest nearby. My Dad would say goodbye to me in the mornings before he went to work and in the times I’d dressed up, he’d wake me up with, “what are doing dressed in those clothes?”. He was never angry, just seemed confused. He’d help me out of them and mention it at later times, as if he found it strange but funny.

I’d forgotten about this completely until a few years ago when I was at a friend’s parents house. Their mother was speaking to me just about stuff in general and mentioned how her sons used to go through her wardrobe and dress up in her clothes etc. This caused me to remember and I felt less alone in doing it.

Am I secure in my identity/sexual-identity? no, to both. If I were to sum myself up, I’d say I was a shape-shifter. I spend a lot of time reflecting on my past and my personality. With people I know (including my family) I go through helping them make sense of their own. Over the last couple of years, I’ve become encouraging with others in sharing or at least talking about what they consider ‘a thing you don’t talk about’. This is because I don’t feel like I know who I am (I’m sure this is the case for people in general) but I feel others have some sort of base to go back to. I constantly feel like I’m in a state of change - personality, mood, interests etc.

Something I noticed as of now. In high school, during the time where I worried about appearing feminine, I suppressed my expression. In subjects like art, music and drama, I purposely did a horrible job. I didn’t want the attention. I also didn’t want to appear intelligent or educated. I became friends with very rough guys and that’s what enforced all of this. I felt like I would be beaten up if I did otherwise and to this day, when I see similar looking guys, I feel like I’m going to be beaten or killed by them.


The scruffy guy that appeared in the blue room (I tried warning him and eventually got him pulled into the entire problem) reminds me of myself. When I want to disappear (so to speak), I let my hair/facial hair grow so that I look like a hermit. I couldn’t grow much of a beard when I were younger but I used to dream about being able to so that I looked like a man. I also saw how old people are left alone in general. This hermit, scruffy man is almost my way of escaping from both extremes. I see him as an overly-relaxed grandfather-like figure, I guess like the sage archetype.

One more thing I should mention is the relationship with my younger sister. She would have been my best friend growing up at one point. When we lived in the country, we would play outside together a lot and I would rough her up quite a bit (similar to what was happening at school to me at the time). This caused my Mum to ban me from playing with her, especially outside. She told me it wasn’t healthy and that I was too rough. A lot of the times that I’ve wanted a relationship with girls, I’ve wanted a similar relationship to what I had with my sister - a friend more than anything else.


Thanks for sharing a little about yourself. It always feels better when there’s an exchange like that. I’m pretty sure I answered most of what you wanted to know, but I really just let everything flow out and check back to make sure I’m getting close to the questions you’re giving me.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 27 Australia

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Lon,
I want to go over your response in fine detail before giving my response. I will provide my thoughts in a day or so.

I do appreciate your openness and willingness to share. Like myself, being open about my life, just talking about it is an outlet {I like to think the Dream Forum is a good place to open up, express oneself and learn more about the true self}. From your response we can already see aspects that were forgotten that are coming back to you. This is important, discovering what is really within. Examining one's own life in great detail, from the earliest memories and experiences, is what Jung's Individuation Process is all about. This method of self examination is what 'saved me'. For those who can grasp the concept {and possess the discipline to stay with it}, it can do the same for them.

You may not know it but you are in fact participating in 'individuation'. Here is the definition of that concept:

In developmental psychology - particularly analytical psychology - individuation is the process through which a person becomes his/her 'true self'. Hence it is the process whereby the innate elements of personality; the different experiences of a person's life and the different aspects and components of the immature psyche become integrated over time into a well-functioning whole. Individuation might thus be summarised as the stabilizing of the personality.

Dreams reveal the 'true self', that aspect of each of us being stored within the unconscious and not always available to the conscious mind. Because dreams are a direct link to the unconscious {the couch becoming less a place for conscious engagement and more of one where to access the unconscious through the dream/sleep} those true aspects that are hidden forgotten or repressed are accessed and can be brought to consciousness. Your openness and willing to talk about your dreams and yourself is the tie that brings the two together. I am merely a conduit to that access, using Jungian psyche {and an intuitive mind that we all possess} to interpret the dream providing the dreamer with insights to those unconscious parts that have been cloaked in darkness. From where we started from your first post, we both have learned a lot about your true self. Hopefully it will be for you the beginning of 'stabilizing' your personality by discovering who you really are. It is a long road ahead but by examining your dreams you have taken that important first step. If you will 'stay the path', become the hero in your own life {which is what the mythical hero/heroine journey is about} you can find that true self, and wholeness in the 'process'.

It is important to understand is what we have begun here is something you will need to proceed with afterwards on your own. I am not a trained psychologist and since there are deep seeded aspects about yourself that need 'sorting out' I do suggest guidance from someone who is. Preferably a Jungian type who has 'advanced' knowledge of the dream world.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn. USA

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

I have a basic understanding of everything you're telling me about the Jungian theory. I've studied the Tarot a fair bit (the major arcana) and astrology. A few years ago when I was here, the site recommended the book, 'Man and his symbols', which I haven't finished but I have a good understanding of most of the concepts you've mentioned from that.
I'm not good with facts but what I do find easy is slotting info together in my head as I talk with someone. That's usually when everything fits and I can then explain the information back to myself.

I'd say I use intuition quite a bit but when it comes to working things out that are my own, I find it very hard because I over-intellectualize things. It's much more helpful talking with someone else about them because there's a playful game going on, if that makes sense.

I have looked for psychologists that work with dreams but where I live there's only one or two, extremely far away. Still, there is a woman that specializes in dreams that I know of.. maybe I should see her.

I noticed this site mentioned the Myers-Briggs personality types. I've done the test many times and always get INFP.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 27 Australia

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Lon,
Sorry for getting away from our conversation but between 'social dragon' {work} and other posted dreams I find myself with more responsibilities than I have time. I will try to provide more detailed comments to your dream and experiences over the next day or so.

As for tarot and astrology. They are good tools for understanding 'symbolic' values having to do with the inner life and can be helpful in self discovery. But they are limited and not used properly can lead you a way from the inner self {focusing on the outer self as the healing agent and not the inner}. Jung studied these concepts in late life and found values in them. But those have to do with the unconscious stimuli, again to do with symbolic representations of the inner self. If you can take these concepts and put them into proper context they will work tremendously in the inner search. The understanding of the concepts in relationship with the whole of your search is where they can be of the best value.

The Meyers-Briggs personality typing is a great tool in discovering your type personality. But the personality is partly inherent, partly learned and discovering the foundations to your personality is the important thing. That most often goes back to childhood and early life. A recent publicised research paper tells us we are formed by the age of six. Our basic foundations are set by that age. Personality takes longer to unfold but the foundations are set. Personality can, and will change once you discover and resolve those early life experiences/influences that take you off your path. Being whole again changes the 'whole' person and that is the goal in self discovery. The search is for that whole person and it is primarily psychological. Changing the outer self is dependent on recognizing what your foundations are, changing what needs to be changed and accepting what is your true identity. That is where dreams are of such great assistance.

The woman who works with dreams. Be sure she is Jungian trained or uses Jungian psyche. Other methods of dream interpretation and understanding can lead you away from the inner resources. Although many methods of interpreting dreams use symbols as the reference point to understanding dreams, they tend to deviate from the inner source and ask you to look to outer resources. There must be a metaphorical understanding of the references to realize the meaning of dreams. They should point to the emotional life. Stars aligned in teh night have little meaning unless there is a metaphorical understanding of what that has to do with the individual, if it has any meaning at all. Just as with Jesus dying on the cross and being resurrected, taken as literal can lead away from what must happen to the person. The reference is to you, you must die to the ego-oriented 'self' and be resurrected to the higher condition of the greater 'Self', the spiritual identity, creative, giving of oneself to a higher calling. This is the hero/heroine journey and you become the hero/heroine in your own life when you undergo a 'death and resurrection'. It is metaphorical. The path of the planets and stars can have a physical affect on the life {the moon on the tides, as well as a woman's menstrual cycle} but the references are much more symbolic. This is why we have given many of the constellations Greek names, the mythical references as symbolic of influences of and on the psyche.
It can get pretty complicated.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn. USA

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Lon,
'Am I secure in my identity/sexual-identity? no, to both. If I were to sum myself up, I’d say I was a shape-shifter. I spend a lot of time reflecting on my past and my personality. With people I know (including my family) I go through helping them make sense of their own. Over the last couple of years, I’ve become encouraging with others in sharing or at least talking about what they consider ‘a thing you don’t talk about’. This is because I don’t feel like I know who I am (I’m sure this is the case for people in general) but I feel others have some sort of base to go back to. I constantly feel like I’m in a state of change - personality, mood, interests etc'.

With this statement your sexual identity would likely be a part of the dream. We can address that in more detail at a later time.
Your statement about 'helping others make sense of their lives' yet being unsure of who you are may indicate personality aspects of being too much of a person 'who must give of themself' yet is due to life circumstances can not give enough to yourself. They have a 'base' to go back to but you feel you do not. We are back to childhood experiences/influences. The constant state of feeling you are in a state of change would be due to your feeling you have no 'base', solid foundations to build a firm identity on. This could add to your uncertainty about your sexual identity, or it could be a product of it, Coming to terms with that sexual identity may solve a lot of problems in your life. Being something you are not would be a cause for not believing you have a 'base' for being your true self.

Can you elaborate on sexual identity aspects? Enough so you are comfortable discussing it in the open. Do you have yearnings relate to actual 'transsexual' aspects? Is this your true identity or just a reference to other possibilities?

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn. USA

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

I have imagined being a woman before and felt alright with that and I've often thought (for years, even as a kid) if I suddenly wanted to be a female tomorrow, I wouldn't have a problem.

Whenever I have sexual fantasies, they always lead into the woman dominating me somehow. The majority of the time, the woman ends up with a penis OR the parts are not clear - sort of a blur of both/all things.
I've used masturbation as a way to escape (what else would it be used for?) and it happens more when I'm bored, lonely or stressed out. I use it as my drug, pretty much. I don't take drugs, drink or smoke - I've used that. I feel like crap afterwards (like a hangover) and so I don't do it very much at all anymore.

Whenever I've looked at porn (usually out of boredom), I always end up at transsexual themed stuff. They seem more 'feminine' is why. Women in regular porn act very masculine (I think) and I find this threatening or just plain unrealistic (it's funny that I choose that word). I do find it alluring that the transsexuals were once men, I think because they would know me a little, at least.
However, I don't find that comforting and if I do look at porn, I'm always looking for a woman that is feminine - that is the goal.

I rarely get close to what I'm looking for but when I do, it never lasts and I quickly see the illusion (this seeing the illusion thing is why I can't enjoy alcohol or drugs).

In the Tarot deck I use, the devil is pretty much a transsexual or hermaphrodite (in disguise, anyway). I grabbed this deck specifically because of this.
Androgeny fascinates me, it feels like we're all meant to become this. At least, we start like that as a children.

I'm not sure what other information I can give. If you want to know something specific, just ask.

Thanks again, for the time you're putting into this.

Oh and with astrology, tarot (anything else) I've learned the hard way, thinking they were absolute truths. I see them as concepts now and barely use them like I used to - the concepts are constantly present in my mind though.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 27 Australia

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Lon,
I believe we have identified the primary focus of the dream. Transsexual. The 'dominating' aspects the inner feminine needs to be let out. The woman is you, with a penis. But there is guilt associated with these feelings, social acceptance being the primary source of such feelings. The 'alluring feeling' that the transsexuals were once men, I think because they would know me a little, this is the inner dialog about the need to be your true self {I'm always looking for a woman that is feminine - that is the goal}.

'I rarely get close to what I'm looking for but when I do, it never lasts and I quickly see the illusion'. The fear of being 'out', this is what you see as an illusion. But as long as you can not be your true self, that is the illusion. Androgyny fascinates you because this is teh world you have created where you can abide by social acceptance and yet 'dissolve' into your fantasy world where you can be your true self. As long as you live in such a world you will have such dreams. A life that is not the true life holds dangerous consequences. Resolving these issues will let you be your true self, live a better life. But these are issues that need professional counseling. I suggest you find a psychologist to help you resolve these inner conflicts.

If I can offer a suggestion that may help you work through the issues yourself. Some Unitarian/Universalist churches as well as Unity churches have social meetings for transsexuals/cross dressers. I attended a Unity church in Nashville where males who possessed a feminine identity had regular meetings so they could' experience/express' their true self. These churches are less interested in saving souls than they are letting the individual express their 'soulful' identity. You may want to look into these possibilities. Being with like minded people would be a great step and you will learn more on how to approach 'being your true self'.

Note: One telling photo about the Melbourne Australia church is here

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn. USA

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

I've thought over this stuff but I feel like a lot of things don't fit. I don't want to be a woman or anything in-between. What I do struggle with is expression. Although it's true that I struggle with expressing my feminine side, I'm pretty certain I don't want to dress as a woman (as a permanent solution to represent myself).
What I have done as I grew up is mute or blunt my appearance in order to take attention away from myself, which I think is taking an extreme approach. I'm slowly finding a balance between masculine and feminine.

Thank you for all of the time you've put into this. I've been able to see things I wouldn't have considered and it's just helpful in general.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 27 Australia

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Lon,
You response from August 18.
"I have imagined being a woman before and felt alright with that and I've often thought (for years, even as a kid) if I suddenly wanted to be a female tomorrow, I wouldn't have a problem".

Your latest response.
"I don't want to be a woman or anything in-between".

There seems to be confusion as to what you really want. Could it be you really don't know? All the more reason to seek counseling. Those inner yearnings directed at your feminine side need to worked out so the outer self can be its true self. As long as you remain in this state of confusion you will never be able to live a life that balances the inner and the outer. Good luck in your search.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn. USA

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

You're right it is something I should talk in-depth with a psychologist about.
What I should have put in that earlier reply is 'on a whim' in regards to thinking I could be a woman. In all honesty, I think that about a lot of things everyday.
I definitely have an identity issue. I find I lose my anchor pretty easily and my mood affects what I want to do each day with my life or with myself.

When I make up my mind to do something, I usually lose 'the feel' within a few days (after exhausting everything) and end up hating it, only to pick it up later at a future time. I seem to go through everything in cycles like that.

One thing I'll say about appearing as a woman is I wouldn't want to do that for the reason that I'd be boxed in and I hate that feeling. I can't stand having someone think I'm one thing. It's funny though because I keep my clothes simple or exactly the same and I'd say a lot of people think I do the same thing all the time, day in and day out. Either that or that I'm all over the place.

Best if I do see someone but the only psychologists that are the sort that work with cognitive behavioural therapy. There is one Jungian psych nearby but he is all booked up and I don't think I can afford them anyway (I don't work).

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 27 Australia

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Lon,
Yes, psychological counseling is the right thing to do. Until you sort through all of these emotions you may never be able to live a life where you can be your true self. Consulting with like minded people would be a good step also. Investigate the church organizations I mentioned, if available. There may be sources/resources in those that may be beneficial. You have your whole life in front of you and not being able to be who you really are, that would be a waste. You can do something about it.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn. USA

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes