Lon,
I want to go over your response in fine detail before giving my response. I will provide my thoughts in a day or so.

I do appreciate your openness and willingness to share. Like myself, being open about my life, just talking about it is an outlet {I like to think the Dream Forum is a good place to open up, express oneself and learn more about the true self}. From your response we can already see aspects that were forgotten that are coming back to you. This is important, discovering what is really within. Examining one's own life in great detail, from the earliest memories and experiences, is what Jung's Individuation Process is all about. This method of self examination is what 'saved me'. For those who can grasp the concept {and possess the discipline to stay with it}, it can do the same for them.

You may not know it but you are in fact participating in 'individuation'. Here is the definition of that concept:

In developmental psychology - particularly analytical psychology - individuation is the process through which a person becomes his/her 'true self'. Hence it is the process whereby the innate elements of personality; the different experiences of a person's life and the different aspects and components of the immature psyche become integrated over time into a well-functioning whole. Individuation might thus be summarised as the stabilizing of the personality.

Dreams reveal the 'true self', that aspect of each of us being stored within the unconscious and not always available to the conscious mind. Because dreams are a direct link to the unconscious {the couch becoming less a place for conscious engagement and more of one where to access the unconscious through the dream/sleep} those true aspects that are hidden forgotten or repressed are accessed and can be brought to consciousness. Your openness and willing to talk about your dreams and yourself is the tie that brings the two together. I am merely a conduit to that access, using Jungian psyche {and an intuitive mind that we all possess} to interpret the dream providing the dreamer with insights to those unconscious parts that have been cloaked in darkness. From where we started from your first post, we both have learned a lot about your true self. Hopefully it will be for you the beginning of 'stabilizing' your personality by discovering who you really are. It is a long road ahead but by examining your dreams you have taken that important first step. If you will 'stay the path', become the hero in your own life {which is what the mythical hero/heroine journey is about} you can find that true self, and wholeness in the 'process'.

It is important to understand is what we have begun here is something you will need to proceed with afterwards on your own. I am not a trained psychologist and since there are deep seeded aspects about yourself that need 'sorting out' I do suggest guidance from someone who is. Preferably a Jungian type who has 'advanced' knowledge of the dream world.

Jerry

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I have a basic understanding of everything you're telling me about the Jungian theory. I've studied the Tarot a fair bit (the major arcana) and astrology. A few years ago when I was here, the site recommended the book, 'Man and his symbols', which I haven't finished but I have a good understanding of most of the concepts you've mentioned from that.
I'm not good with facts but what I do find easy is slotting info together in my head as I talk with someone. That's usually when everything fits and I can then explain the information back to myself.

I'd say I use intuition quite a bit but when it comes to working things out that are my own, I find it very hard because I over-intellectualize things. It's much more helpful talking with someone else about them because there's a playful game going on, if that makes sense.

I have looked for psychologists that work with dreams but where I live there's only one or two, extremely far away. Still, there is a woman that specializes in dreams that I know of.. maybe I should see her.

I noticed this site mentioned the Myers-Briggs personality types. I've done the test many times and always get INFP.

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Lon,
Sorry for getting away from our conversation but between 'social dragon' {work} and other posted dreams I find myself with more responsibilities than I have time. I will try to provide more detailed comments to your dream and experiences over the next day or so.

As for tarot and astrology. They are good tools for understanding 'symbolic' values having to do with the inner life and can be helpful in self discovery. But they are limited and not used properly can lead you a way from the inner self {focusing on the outer self as the healing agent and not the inner}. Jung studied these concepts in late life and found values in them. But those have to do with the unconscious stimuli, again to do with symbolic representations of the inner self. If you can take these concepts and put them into proper context they will work tremendously in the inner search. The understanding of the concepts in relationship with the whole of your search is where they can be of the best value.

The Meyers-Briggs personality typing is a great tool in discovering your type personality. But the personality is partly inherent, partly learned and discovering the foundations to your personality is the important thing. That most often goes back to childhood and early life. A recent publicised research paper tells us we are formed by the age of six. Our basic foundations are set by that age. Personality takes longer to unfold but the foundations are set. Personality can, and will change once you discover and resolve those early life experiences/influences that take you off your path. Being whole again changes the 'whole' person and that is the goal in self discovery. The search is for that whole person and it is primarily psychological. Changing the outer self is dependent on recognizing what your foundations are, changing what needs to be changed and accepting what is your true identity. That is where dreams are of such great assistance.

The woman who works with dreams. Be sure she is Jungian trained or uses Jungian psyche. Other methods of dream interpretation and understanding can lead you away from the inner resources. Although many methods of interpreting dreams use symbols as the reference point to understanding dreams, they tend to deviate from the inner source and ask you to look to outer resources. There must be a metaphorical understanding of the references to realize the meaning of dreams. They should point to the emotional life. Stars aligned in teh night have little meaning unless there is a metaphorical understanding of what that has to do with the individual, if it has any meaning at all. Just as with Jesus dying on the cross and being resurrected, taken as literal can lead away from what must happen to the person. The reference is to you, you must die to the ego-oriented 'self' and be resurrected to the higher condition of the greater 'Self', the spiritual identity, creative, giving of oneself to a higher calling. This is the hero/heroine journey and you become the hero/heroine in your own life when you undergo a 'death and resurrection'. It is metaphorical. The path of the planets and stars can have a physical affect on the life {the moon on the tides, as well as a woman's menstrual cycle} but the references are much more symbolic. This is why we have given many of the constellations Greek names, the mythical references as symbolic of influences of and on the psyche.
It can get pretty complicated.

Jerry

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Lon,
'Am I secure in my identity/sexual-identity? no, to both. If I were to sum myself up, I’d say I was a shape-shifter. I spend a lot of time reflecting on my past and my personality. With people I know (including my family) I go through helping them make sense of their own. Over the last couple of years, I’ve become encouraging with others in sharing or at least talking about what they consider ‘a thing you don’t talk about’. This is because I don’t feel like I know who I am (I’m sure this is the case for people in general) but I feel others have some sort of base to go back to. I constantly feel like I’m in a state of change - personality, mood, interests etc'.

With this statement your sexual identity would likely be a part of the dream. We can address that in more detail at a later time.
Your statement about 'helping others make sense of their lives' yet being unsure of who you are may indicate personality aspects of being too much of a person 'who must give of themself' yet is due to life circumstances can not give enough to yourself. They have a 'base' to go back to but you feel you do not. We are back to childhood experiences/influences. The constant state of feeling you are in a state of change would be due to your feeling you have no 'base', solid foundations to build a firm identity on. This could add to your uncertainty about your sexual identity, or it could be a product of it, Coming to terms with that sexual identity may solve a lot of problems in your life. Being something you are not would be a cause for not believing you have a 'base' for being your true self.

Can you elaborate on sexual identity aspects? Enough so you are comfortable discussing it in the open. Do you have yearnings relate to actual 'transsexual' aspects? Is this your true identity or just a reference to other possibilities?

Jerry

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I have imagined being a woman before and felt alright with that and I've often thought (for years, even as a kid) if I suddenly wanted to be a female tomorrow, I wouldn't have a problem.

Whenever I have sexual fantasies, they always lead into the woman dominating me somehow. The majority of the time, the woman ends up with a penis OR the parts are not clear - sort of a blur of both/all things.
I've used masturbation as a way to escape (what else would it be used for?) and it happens more when I'm bored, lonely or stressed out. I use it as my drug, pretty much. I don't take drugs, drink or smoke - I've used that. I feel like crap afterwards (like a hangover) and so I don't do it very much at all anymore.

Whenever I've looked at porn (usually out of boredom), I always end up at transsexual themed stuff. They seem more 'feminine' is why. Women in regular porn act very masculine (I think) and I find this threatening or just plain unrealistic (it's funny that I choose that word). I do find it alluring that the transsexuals were once men, I think because they would know me a little, at least.
However, I don't find that comforting and if I do look at porn, I'm always looking for a woman that is feminine - that is the goal.

I rarely get close to what I'm looking for but when I do, it never lasts and I quickly see the illusion (this seeing the illusion thing is why I can't enjoy alcohol or drugs).

In the Tarot deck I use, the devil is pretty much a transsexual or hermaphrodite (in disguise, anyway). I grabbed this deck specifically because of this.
Androgeny fascinates me, it feels like we're all meant to become this. At least, we start like that as a children.

I'm not sure what other information I can give. If you want to know something specific, just ask.

Thanks again, for the time you're putting into this.

Oh and with astrology, tarot (anything else) I've learned the hard way, thinking they were absolute truths. I see them as concepts now and barely use them like I used to - the concepts are constantly present in my mind though.

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Lon,
I believe we have identified the primary focus of the dream. Transsexual. The 'dominating' aspects the inner feminine needs to be let out. The woman is you, with a penis. But there is guilt associated with these feelings, social acceptance being the primary source of such feelings. The 'alluring feeling' that the transsexuals were once men, I think because they would know me a little, this is the inner dialog about the need to be your true self {I'm always looking for a woman that is feminine - that is the goal}.

'I rarely get close to what I'm looking for but when I do, it never lasts and I quickly see the illusion'. The fear of being 'out', this is what you see as an illusion. But as long as you can not be your true self, that is the illusion. Androgyny fascinates you because this is teh world you have created where you can abide by social acceptance and yet 'dissolve' into your fantasy world where you can be your true self. As long as you live in such a world you will have such dreams. A life that is not the true life holds dangerous consequences. Resolving these issues will let you be your true self, live a better life. But these are issues that need professional counseling. I suggest you find a psychologist to help you resolve these inner conflicts.

If I can offer a suggestion that may help you work through the issues yourself. Some Unitarian/Universalist churches as well as Unity churches have social meetings for transsexuals/cross dressers. I attended a Unity church in Nashville where males who possessed a feminine identity had regular meetings so they could' experience/express' their true self. These churches are less interested in saving souls than they are letting the individual express their 'soulful' identity. You may want to look into these possibilities. Being with like minded people would be a great step and you will learn more on how to approach 'being your true self'.

Note: One telling photo about the Melbourne Australia church is here

Jerry

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I've thought over this stuff but I feel like a lot of things don't fit. I don't want to be a woman or anything in-between. What I do struggle with is expression. Although it's true that I struggle with expressing my feminine side, I'm pretty certain I don't want to dress as a woman (as a permanent solution to represent myself).
What I have done as I grew up is mute or blunt my appearance in order to take attention away from myself, which I think is taking an extreme approach. I'm slowly finding a balance between masculine and feminine.

Thank you for all of the time you've put into this. I've been able to see things I wouldn't have considered and it's just helpful in general.

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Lon,
You response from August 18.
"I have imagined being a woman before and felt alright with that and I've often thought (for years, even as a kid) if I suddenly wanted to be a female tomorrow, I wouldn't have a problem".

Your latest response.
"I don't want to be a woman or anything in-between".

There seems to be confusion as to what you really want. Could it be you really don't know? All the more reason to seek counseling. Those inner yearnings directed at your feminine side need to worked out so the outer self can be its true self. As long as you remain in this state of confusion you will never be able to live a life that balances the inner and the outer. Good luck in your search.

Jerry

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You're right it is something I should talk in-depth with a psychologist about.
What I should have put in that earlier reply is 'on a whim' in regards to thinking I could be a woman. In all honesty, I think that about a lot of things everyday.
I definitely have an identity issue. I find I lose my anchor pretty easily and my mood affects what I want to do each day with my life or with myself.

When I make up my mind to do something, I usually lose 'the feel' within a few days (after exhausting everything) and end up hating it, only to pick it up later at a future time. I seem to go through everything in cycles like that.

One thing I'll say about appearing as a woman is I wouldn't want to do that for the reason that I'd be boxed in and I hate that feeling. I can't stand having someone think I'm one thing. It's funny though because I keep my clothes simple or exactly the same and I'd say a lot of people think I do the same thing all the time, day in and day out. Either that or that I'm all over the place.

Best if I do see someone but the only psychologists that are the sort that work with cognitive behavioural therapy. There is one Jungian psych nearby but he is all booked up and I don't think I can afford them anyway (I don't work).

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Lon,
Yes, psychological counseling is the right thing to do. Until you sort through all of these emotions you may never be able to live a life where you can be your true self. Consulting with like minded people would be a good step also. Investigate the church organizations I mentioned, if available. There may be sources/resources in those that may be beneficial. You have your whole life in front of you and not being able to be who you really are, that would be a waste. You can do something about it.

Jerry

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