Having watched once again the BBC Horizon video 'Why do we Dream' I ask questions of myself about the focus of the physiological aspects of film compared to Jung's theory of psychological aspects. Are there opposing forces here or are we beginning to better understand what Jung proposed as true but with a better capacity to understand the physiological aspects of the brain in relationship to his theories {new technology on brain science Jung was not privy to}?

In the discussion of people who are severely depressed it is found they go straight into REM sleep which has a negative focus {non-REM sleep has a more positive focus}. It is suggested in the film this enhances the severity of the waking depression. My thoughts are, abiding by my Jungian approach to dreams, the REM dreaming is actually focused on the negative in order to help sort out the reasons for the depression. The more severe the depression the greater need for a therapeutic correction in REM sleep.

Another thought about the difference between REM sleep and non-REM sleep may have to do with the two aspects of dreaming. Jung tells us dreams having more than one application, all dreams having at least two or meanings. If in REM sleep, in the course of a natural nights sleep when we go into and out of stages of REM sleep, when the dream is attempting to help resolve emotional issues, are these stages of REM sleep more symbolic in their application? Is there a deeper examination of the deeper emotional issues? Can this be why we often find different layers of personal information when interpret dreams using Jung's application of symbol and metaphor? In non-REM sleep the dream may be less symbolic yet at the same time be confronting more recent waking issues {all the while emotional but less so}. REM sleep is highly negative compared to non-REM sleep {this is illustrated in the new science}. The more we venture into the deeper psyche, the deeper layers of the unconscious, is the dream attempting to sort through the deeper emotional tissue {in a therapeutic capacity}, getting to the core issues of the emotional conflicts? If so could non-REM sleep with its more positive structure be left to focus on the more recent waking life issues {still a therapeutic function but focused on the less volatile recent emotional experiences}?

It could be supposed it is the other way around. REM sleep deals with the recent, less volatile emotional issues and non-REM sleep focuses on the deeper issues. But since nature has provided this mechanism of venturing into and out or REM sleep, my sense is REM sleep is delving into the deeper layers of the unconscious. This would be related to the ancient mind, the collective unconscious, and where we discover the archetypes {as innate universal psychic dispositions which form the substrate from which the basic symbols or representations of unconscious experience}. In my mind it fits neatly within the concepts of Jungian psyche.

The Language of Dreams
But what of the language of dreams? The accepted 'science' of dream interpretation is primarily Jungian, one of symbol and metaphor. How do we explain the brain science in relationship to this concept? Robert J Hoss MS, the Director of the DreamScience foundation, has research that shows us the following:

• Most of the Brain is active when we dream, only the executive and sensory functions are off line (the rational thinking and sensing parts)



• Dreams seem to process unresolved emotions – the Limbic system (that associates emotions with sensory information) is highly active in the dream state



• Language centers on the left side of the brain are off-line, but the same centers on the right side, responsible for processing associations are ON in dreams



• Therefore the Language of Dream is that of association, in particular emotional associations, not the literal naming by which we identify things in waking life

For me the above produces a lot of Ooohs and Aaahs. It all comes together, brain science and Jungian psyche. Of course being the dedicated 'Jungian' that I am I must admit my prejudice. And because my connections to Jungian psyche is basically 'intuitive' I can take more liberties with my conclusions than those of you who have spent years of study in Jungian psychology.

I am constantly taken aback to how the new science fits so well with Jungian theories/concepts. Let's face it, the man has been dead for 50 years and a great part of his body of science is close to a 100 years old. Concepts come and go but those rooted in truth never die. With the new technology it is easy to look for opposing information or to take the science so objectivity it leaves little room for the greater possibilities. What is metaphysical for one person is another person's science. If it withstands the ravage of time then there must be truth in the science. For all we know and can learn there are still those mysteries we will never be able to understand. Unless we consider the philosophical possibilities, which itself is a field of science. When all is said and done my belief {as Joseph Campbell put it, "I don't need faith, I have experience"} is more stronger than ever 'Jung got it right'.

Jerry

Myths-Dreams-Symbols is Sponsored by:
Gifford Fence-Middle Tennessee    &     Gifford Fence Orlando

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

For those interested in the video it is available on Youtube. The link is What Are Dreams?

And since I have your attention I wish to point to the link I add to each and every post I make at the Dream Forum. The following 'advertisement'

Myths-Dreams-Symbols is Sponsored by:
Gifford Fence-Middle Tennessee    &     Gifford Fence Orlando

is not primarily for new business. It creates a new link to the above site. Google rankings are largely based on outside links to a website and are important for a business to get noticed. To illustrate my point and show how successful these links have been for the Gifford Fence Company you need only to Google certain important key words in the Nashville, Tn and Orlando, Fl areas. Take the word wood fences in Nashville or Orlando. Or even the word fences in the same areas. Try it and see the results.

That leads me to my next announcement. I am a webmaster of several web sites {Myths-Dreams-Symbols being my primary site, my bliss if you will}. Later this year I plan to relocate to the Melbourne, Fl area and I am in the process of building a new web site {www.melfla.com}. It is an endeavor to supplement my retirement income using my experiences with working with dreams as well as web design. The key is my ability to enhance the ranking of another website linked to my other websites, especially Myths-Dreams-Symbols. MDS has a world wide ranking and the power to enhance any site linked to it {and its 500+ pages, each creating a new link}. Just think of the possibilities of linking to a regional site and how that will increase a web site's ranking. I have yet to finish my MelFla web site, it is still very much in its early stages. But when I do, well let's say i should have an edge for anyone who Google's Melbourne Florida. Knowing the rules helps you play the game.

Also, I have been working on a Web Ring for Jungian enthusiasts, psychologists, etc. I will be contacting those who have are followers on my Twitter account. I have at last count some 25-30 practicing psychologists following me, and I them. Such a web ring will create a strong tool for each member in Google as well as Bing rankings.

As for my Myths-Dreams-Symbols website rankings. Google Carl Jung and see my ranking. Or Dream psychology. Impressive huh? I am not just an intuitive Jungian, I am also good at several layman trades.

Jerry

Myths-Dreams-Symbols is Sponsored by:
Gifford Fence-Middle Tennessee    &     Gifford Fence Orlando

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Hi Jerry, I can see how a jungian would wrestle with this tech/psych enterprise. Jung so often reminds his reader that all his work has been based on observation, a precondition for scientific endeavor. As you know, he considered the dream an independent phenomenon, just like any organism, and just as observable as an ant colony. I can see the overlap of knowledge that would cause neuroscience to look into depression. I don't know how they intend to isolate it or measure it or quantify it, since there is no physical material there. I suppose they have some insight into psychology when they look at which part of the brain or body lights up with a certain emotion. Apparently they are incapable of the conception that the dream itself is an observable phenomenon. It seems that if they intent to cure depression on a materialistic level that history shows they will have mixed results, and if they intend to cure it on a psychical level, they will find that, alas, they were only a hundred years behind jung, and that unfortunately, it appears that it was not met with anything like wide approval by western society by and large. Just a couple thoughts, thanks Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 34 Missoula MT

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Hi Jerry, I have the feeling that my comments had a certain unsavory taste, something I have a predilection for and am often weak in overcoming. I also did not account for the great scientific discovery of serotonin levels influencing or being influenced by emotions or mood. I think it's properly not really my distaste for neuro-psychology or the like, as much as it is how much I am caught up in and awestruck by jung's vision. I recently re-read answer to job over the holidays, in which he mentions that an archetype can take such a hold of a person, that it can determine their life down to the smallest detail. I can't say that is entirely the case with me, but there has been no stronger influence on my life, as far as I can tell, than jung. I honor science for answering the call for help with the human soul, and perhaps they have a new chance at soon bringing the feminine element back to us. The unified theory, I can't help but think is somehow a false premise. But that aside even jung of all people described himself as a thorough empiricist. So there is hope for science. The demands of modern life are great indeed, it is no small task to meet them, not to mention meanwhile constructing a soul, especially with the misfortunes of the last few years. It seems I have never seen the opposites in such glorious conflict, as they are between men today. while inside, a courteous request. great is the way.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 34 Missoula MT

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Sam,
I didn't take anything about your comments as being unsavory. I welcome your input. I don't always respond in a timely manner to posts, especially recently. As you may have read I am looking toward to early retirement and relocating to Melbourne, Fl. Between the demands of having to manage our fence business here in Middle Tennessee {my son also has the business in Orlando} and preparing for my move it sometimes takes a little while to focus on the Forum. Plus I am in the process of building a new web site for my move to Melbourne, the focus of that site on dreams and metaphysics. I have a great part of it already constructed and have purchased the domain name {www.melfla.com}. I have yet registered with a hosting company and so for the time being I have it parked in my Myths-Dreams-Symbols domain. For a sneak preview go here. There are changes that will be made to it but the format seems to be ready.

As for the sometimes seemingly competing science of neurology. It could be a thorn in the side of Jungian psyche if it weren't for the fact it tends to verify his concepts. I tried to stay informed with all related sciences that have to do with the psyche and I have yet to see any {other than outright bias toward Jung} that contradicts his body of work. Just the opposite. Most verify or at least in some gesture support his theories. My interest in the film {I unintentionally listed the wrong video in my original post. The link is here Why Do We Dream?} comes from the stages of dreams and how the symbolic interpretations compare to the more recent 'literal' aspects of the dream structure. This is still new science and although I am a mere layman in any science to do with anything I have my thoughts. An interesting subject to be pondered for the future.

Your comments have legitimacy as anyone who posts at the Forum. Never feel that your true self is not accepted. Self expression is an outlet and to be your true self is an expression of that self. We all have varying aspects, some we sometimes may think should not be revealed. But seeing the words written for seeing sometimes helps in understanding that true being. Your comments, savory or not, are always welcome.

Jerry

Myths-Dreams-Symbols is Sponsored by:
Gifford Fence-Middle Tennessee    &     Gifford Fence Orlando

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Whoops! I wrongly listed the wrong video. The correct viedo is Why Do We Dream?.

Jerry

Myths-Dreams-Symbols is Sponsored by:
Gifford Fence-Middle Tennessee    &     Gifford Fence Orlando

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes