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Vice Presidents

Hi Jerry,

I hope you are well. :o) I would love your insight on a dream I had last night. I will begin with a preface:

Before sleep last night I felt very sad for all these cancer victims I know and love. This turned to fear of my death and my husbands. We are still in good health, but the feeling was strong enough to make me cry. I prayed to the God of my understanding and asked to be shown in a dream some clarity.

My 1st dream was of my having heart surgery. Pretty much that was it. There is nothing wrong with my physical heart, btw, I feel some healing needed in my heart, heart, perhaps.

The last dream I remember upon waking was of George W. Bush coming to my home. I was with a young woman. When he arrived, I offered a hug. This is done in NA and Unity. I feel it's important as it brings us to our bodies in a loving way. Along the lines of Marion Woodman's bodywork.

Back to the dream. George was wearing a white woven shirt, was kind,and accepted the hug. I then introduced him to the young woman and I could only remember her 1st name, Peggy. She added Mondale as her last name. They spoke of some $ she had spent and he needed to know about. He was going out of office the next day or soon. After their exchange I thought, I bet he goes through that kind of thing a lot.

In terms of time- Mondale was Jimmy Carter's VP and George W. was Reagan's. The latter '70's early '80's. Also Mondale is from Minnesota where I moved to in 1988 after his term as vp.

Looking forward to your response. Such a different set of characters for my dreams. I was married and living a crazy life in San Francisco during Carter/Reagan years. I'm just writing anything I can add to round this out.

I am feeling better this morning as I got in touch with how limited I was thinking about mySelf, my Higher Power...

Thanking you in advance!

Peggy

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Re: Vice Presidents

Peggy,
First, a good chance the dreams are related. Both could have to do with the heart. The first has to do with heart surgery. One aspect of that would be the caring nature of the 'heart' toward the cancer victims. the other would be related to your fears of health, the heart surgery. That is stated in the dream {This turned to fear of my death and my husbands}. I want to come back to this statement about the health of you and your 'husband' later in my interpretation.
A literal statement like this is not usually the norm in a dream but because you do have a continuous fear of death and you are consciously aware of it could have prompted the literal language.

I will attempt to tie the two together in my summary.

In the second dream I see several things that merit comment. Parts look as if they may apply to your fear of health issues. A couple of observations will require you to do some reflection, thinking back to years ago as referenced, in a round about way, in the dream. Those would have to do with the years of the 70s and 80s. Vice Presidents {the wording you used in the dreams does not make a statement about vice presidents but uses the actual names instead}. The overlapping time period {Mondale from 1977-81, Bush 81-89} may suggest a continuous period of time in your life that may have relevance to your fears or some other vital aspect of your psyche. You were with a young woman which, because not named, probably represents some aspect of yourself {you during that time period} and not another person {named persons other than yourself would have different applications}. That is re-inforced later in the dream when she was named {the young Peggy}. The young woman is you and the time frame of the vps may have somtehing to do with experiences during those years. Take some time and give deep considerations to this.

Bush came into your home {metaphorical of course}. The home would be you or having associations with you. The hug may represent sharing something close 'to the heart', or shared experiences. Bush just entered the hospital and although it was not a heart ailment the hug may indicate something related to 'close to the heart'.

It is normal events from the previous day influence our dreams. In fact our dreams, as one aspect of their function, address recent and current life experiences {another would be the deeper aspects}. The part about Bush would involve such a stimulus. There also mat be personal preferences involved {involving Bush}. In that light the spending of money may have to do with your 'value system', one that is in 'office' but is out of office the next day. This may have to do with fluctuating emotions from day to day {I get the impression your life is a day to day roller coaster of emotions}. A value system is what your life is built on and fears are a part of that system. The dream statement, 'After their exchange I thought, I bet he goes through that kind of thing a lot.' In the news there is a statement about Bush's condition and most likely repeated in most news media that goes, 'Bush has been in and out of the hospital', 'he has gone through this a lot'. You are 'sharing bodywork', the workings of the body, physical health. Also the dream statement about being out of office in a day or two may have associations with expectations of Bush getting out of the hospital in a day or two.

You state at the end of the dream you are 'feeling better' this morning after accessing the higher self {Higher Power within}. Day day emotions? Affirmations are important.

Back to the dream
The time period here interests me. You are a young woman. Bush was vp in the 80s. That would put you in your 30s. Mondale is her last name. How are you affiliated politically? Was Peggy a Democrat, for Mondale who ran against Bush in 1984. Whether or not if this fits, and if I am correct about the time period, there may something other that has relevance to those years. if so it would involve experiences that left its mark. It would be 'going back' and focusing on causation of who you are today. at least the influences would. The inclusion of Mondale may be associated with the move to Minnesota.

I believe it is pretty obvious the relationship of the two dreams if my assumptions are correct. Look at those crazy years in San Francisco. Then the move to the more 'conservative' environment of Minnesota. I do thing there is a link between the two dreams having to do with your fears of health and death. that would be the recent and current emotional issues the dream is addressing. The 'deeper' issues would involve the time frame during the 80s. The Jungian approach that all dreams have 'at least two' meanings/applications would be apply here. Likely, upon very deep introspection which may require a passage of time, you will be able to come up with additional applications of the symbols. until then focus on what I have presented and see where that leads.

Observation That May Have Implications
I've noticed in your posts you always include the language 'the fear of my death and my husband', you always include the term husband. this likely is pointing to some other masculine relationship other than your actual husband. The death of a masculine aspect, or at least a fear of it. Deeper influences from past experiences probably have associations to this use of husband. See my closing statement to get an idea how you would go about getting at those associations.


Reflecting on My Style for Interpretation Dreams
Something I haven't given a lot of thought or comments to is the mode in which I give interpretations to dreams. I know very little personal information about the dreamer. The only real info I ask for is age and gender. If I knew more about the dreamer, preferably face face consultation, I do believe there would be a even greater possibility of determining what the dream is focus. Outside not having this information I believe the outline to interpreting dreams using Jungian psyche is very reliable. The great thing about the dream forum {online since 2005} is I get feed back on my interpretations. There is a good amount of reference material that can be used in accessing Jung's approach. If it weren't reliable/correct I would have had to given up long ago. Instead I am pushing forward, seeking to share my experience and knowledge with others through other venues. A testament to Jung's philosophies as well as how the 'Greater Self' can stimulate precipitate greater aspirations.

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: Vice Presidents

Jerry,

You are so spot on in your interpretations, and I think I know why. Because you live intuitively, you trust, and do not censor, your thoughts. I am excited for you in being closer and closer to your dream of classes near the sea! Lucky Floridians.

I feel so dumb, for the time period of the dream and the political theme is when I was married to my 1st husband, Masoud, who died of an overdose in 1995, 7 years after I had left him in San Fransico. Now, what aspect of that is coming up now and why? Rozie, my husband and true love is very healthy. My sponsor is battling a rare & aggressive cancer,my sister just had lung lobes removed because of cancer, my sponcee sister's mother died of cancer last Christmas and she is grieving (we talk) and my younger son is an addict and passed out in the bathtub, overflowing and got kicked out of his apt. He denies this is a problem. Both of my sons' are Masoud's.

I hope I am not being morbid, just processing the above and a little nervous about phone calls bringing news. I want and need to face death, not be scared of it. I have always been a warrior this way, working in hospitals, looking at dead bodies instead of turning way or running away. I want to know as much as I can, and I mean that very spiritually. My dog, Maggie, the beagle died in early June this summer and yesterday, during a nap, I dreamt I was bleeding from the chin and got my mirror to look at it. It was like a zit or something minor, but a lot of blood. In the mirror, I saw Maggie running towards me, all happy, flapping ears, on a trail. I had a good cry as I tried to pet her without losing her image in the mirror. It was so healing in that I felt her spirit and the "otherside" or whatever name we want to give it. It was enough to assure me of a far deeper safty.

As I journey on here, I find I have to get a bigger Higher Power and maybe write the myth to match. This has to be an internal process for I can not follow religions' doctrine, but rather I piece it together, day by day. Feelings are the key for knowing myself, the intuitive is my primary function, by a long stride when I was tested. Feelings are what addicts numb, so now I celebrate them and I don't judge them as good or bad, many do, but Rozie and I have learned of their brilliance.

Back to the dream, I did not vote for Reagan and felt at that time the end of an era, the hippy, new freedom, more socialistic life & gov't. Masoud was very political, too much really as he survived the Iranian Revolution and we hung out with very left people in North Beach. But he didn't know how to live and embraced nihilistic thought...a downer really. Sad. I was too influenced by him, and left to get clean and raise my sons in a better environment than unstable poets & revolutionist- :o).

I hope I haven't typed to much, I just let it all out. When Masoud died, I had to handle all his funeral arrangements from Minnesota and I had just moved in with Rozie. It was a very tough time.

I appreciate your listening to all of this, Jerry. You are a very kind person and we are all grateful for your forum.

Peggy

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Re: Vice Presidents

Peggy,
I truly appreciate your follow up response. I am always interested in whether my interpretations have merit and it seems with your response it seems my analysis of the symbols were very much applicable. A good interpretation at best can only see along the perimeters of a dream with the exact details being only being discernible by the dreamer. Of course in most instances the information I have about the dreamer is very limited {often only the age, gender and location}. Since you have posted dreams previously and we have had a discussion of those results I did have more to go on with this dream. I am able to better able to use amplification of the dream with experience and that provides a greater possibility of understanding the dream message {Jung stressed the importance of amplification}. Although I feel I do have a good intuitive sense when it comes to dream interpretation it is Jung's theories and ideas that allow me to even consider taking on the task of interpreting a dream. And a willing and responsive person to work with such as yourself allows us to better understand not only how dreams function but get to the core of the dream message. I am the point to where I am convinced Jung got it right and the proof can be found in the dream posts here at the Dream Forum.

Given your response with details I am going to take another look at this last dream. If you can expand your comments on specific parts of the dream we may be able to get more from a deeper analysis. Also if you will comment on the emotions you experience with the 'fear of death' and how frequent they are that may help resolve questions to why they are so pervasive. How long have you had these fears? It may be the frequency of experiences you have had with people you know and love {as well as your pet} that are at the core of these emotions. If you wish to continue the dialog I am more than willing and happy to assist.

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: Vice Presidents

Jerry,

A quick response to the fear of the death question. I have been aware of it since 2009 when I returned to recovery after relapsing. And not my death, but Rozie's. He is the kindest person I have ever known, protective, supportive of my art, of ME. My previous relationships, including my biological family did not give me anything close to this kind of nurturance. When he and I talked this out this morning to help me uncover the true feeling, it's just thinking in the future and that produces fear, so one must remain in the moment. Appreciating him and all of our time together is the solution.

The feeling before going to sleep before the dream was more about the possible suffering people go through, like for chemo as my sponsor is, but in the light of day I realize she is choosing this last chemo treatment instead of hospice. She's an adult and I can't caretake people which is my "1st response". I am more curious about death and spirits than scared except with Rozie. You know, we want to die 15 minutes apart.

Some things I learned about Geo W.: he is 88yrs old, 1989-93 he was in office. I came here in 1988 for recovery. Also, Mondale came to the TV station I worked at when he was running with Carter for the 2nd time. Secret service was all over the place.

Peggy

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Re: Vice Presidents

Thanks Peggy. I will take another look at the dream tomorrow and response and see what I can come up with. The extra info about Bush and Mondale may be helpful. Such things may seem insignificant but dreams have a funny way of using events and experiences as metaphors.
Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: Vice Presidents

Peggy,
I am going to offer a few comments on your last post and later give another look at your dream and see if there is anything that stands out that may offer new insights to its meaning. I just finished my Wednesday workout and I am sitting at Starbucks across from the beach drinking coffee. Not the best place to give a lot of good focus to something so serious. The distractions, as they are, I can't complain about {it is sunny and about 75* outside}.
Isn't Wifi great?

I can empathize with the emotions about Rozie's health and your fear of losing him. Although I am single and have been for almost 20 years {last marriage was in '92, the last of 3 -shows just how much I needed Jungian analysis to get myself straight} I get these feelings of impeding lose of loved ones. My mother is in her early 80s and knowing she will not live forever, the thought of losing her is daunting. Being a pet owner figures into it also. Death of a love one is always traumatic. It is all a part of the mid-life thing and the later years. A transition that will either make you loony, whole or kill you.

As for the questions about death I turn to the many sages I have encountered over the past 20 years, particularly Campbell, Jung, Elaine Pagels and Marion Woodman. Of course it is campbell that articulates the best answers, and quotes. He stated in The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers in talking about the sorrows of life, "It's a wonderful, wonderful opera, except that it hurts.".
And I hauntingly remember his words {this was in the early years of studying 3-4 years, before I began to tackle the lot more difficult Jung} about the realities of life, which at the time bewildered me and did so form any years until I finally 'got it'.

From The Power of Myth:
"People ask me, "Do you have optimism about the world, about how terrible it is?" And I say, "Yes, it's great the way it is" ... I had the wonderful privilege of sitting face to face with [a Hindu guru] and the first thing he said to me was "Do you have a question?", cause the teacher always answers questions... I said, "Yes, I have a question." I said, " Since in Hindu thinking all the universe is divine, a manifestation of divinity itself, how can we say no to anything in the world? How can we say no to brutality to stupidity to vulgarity to thoughtlessness?" And he said, "For you and me, you must say yes."

It is about affirmations, and having a system that supports those affirmations. For me it has been the Jungian idea, that there is this physical body with its psychological nemises {emotions} that lives in a world of conflict and sorrow. But in Jung's theory, and I try to 'wholly' live by it, there is this mystical part, the spiritual/metaphysical aspect that has the invisible hands that do support you in times of need. Not contrived need/desires but those that we experience in the various stages of life that reveal discernable patterns we read about in myth {myths are 'collective' patterns of emotional behavior}. Campbell skillfully explains the hero journey, the 'actualization' of what Jung taught, in a way that we can understand and follow. It is left to the individual to discover their 'myth' and find 'within' themselves the the DISCIPLINE that allows them to survive the ordeals in life. This inward journey we hear about all the time is a psychological journey inward. Through myth we can find stories of those who have 'gone before us' and have experienced the trial that fit your psyche, my psyche and every other human psyche throughout history.

You may not consciously know it {or think about it} but you already know the first step in this reality. From your posts we have evidence you are indeed following the correct path. The post of Dec 3, 2012 - 8:44AM,
I am feeling better this morning as I got in touch with how limited I was thinking about mySelf, my Higher Power...

and from another post where you said you need to remember to 'live in the moment'.

These are affirmations and the system you have chosen to live by, the Individuation Process, will work as long a you do keep it all in perspective {in the moment and not the emotional mind} and let the soul be the guide. Campbell talked forcibly about how the system can lead one to wholeness and I and many others will attest to its power {perhaps the most famous being George Lucas}. We need only be strong and disciplined.

In closing let me once again quote Campbell in the discussion of death and the afterlife. These are words I feel is as honest an answer to knowing anything about what happens after death. It is from an old Sufi Islamic proverb, the mystical part of Islam.

"when the angel of death approaches it is horrific, when it reaches you it is bliss".

Intuitively I feel there is something so true about this quote. And I truly believe anything that has a strong intuitive feel is always correct.

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: Vice Presidents

Jerry,

Thank you for your kind & compassionate reply. It's all about the journey and that was what I got from the mirror dream with my doggy on a trail coming towards me. It answered something inside me- it ain't over, even after death. It hurts and it's important to experience that hurt. I've noticed that a lot of addictive behavior occurs surrounding incomplete grieving, be it drugs, food, sex, hoarding, gambling etc. Also Jung said we want to live and plan living even in the elderly. Cancer patients will go through as many treatments as allowed, while loved ones "wish" they could stop suffering. I keep observing this in others and in myself. Preventing hurt in others is not my job, I guess, nor within my power.

My spiritual practices get simpler & simpler. My prayer is "Please help me" or "Please help us" or someone's name. I ask to be guided. I try to keep an attitude of gratitude and this goes very deep. With my thoughts I "let go & let God" this has always been a powerful & effective affirmation for me. I surrender, absolutely let go, physically, mentally, emotionally by laying flat on my bed. Sitting in a chair is uncomfortable, thus distracting. I try to listen, intuitively. My art is as meditative as I can get it without trying to control it. Probably that is the hardest part. My sense of limitation. But I am aware of this now, from things you've said. So I am working towards being more confident with my art. This also correlates with a dream I had last week of Stevie Wonder & I playing the piano together. I asked him who he was, he said,"whatever you want to call me" We then "played" the piano and I stopped saying, "You play, I'm not good enough". I transposed this in the day to mean, I don't feel confident enough in my art. You mentioned unblossoming marigolds in a dream I had, which I honestly dismissed. But now I can see it, feel it.

My goal with my art at the moment is to express feelings & emotions that the viewer can feel. For me the process is so healing and makes me feel whole in terms of all the art disiplines I have learned. Dance, mime, and good drawing skills.

Today I choose to believe in God's love not my fears. And not avoiding feelings, but embracing them, sad, mad or glad. Thinking of what the police say a lot on COPS "Stop resisting, stop resisting."

Please let me know which is the best Marion Woodman book to read. The audio is not as appealing to me as the written word.

I feel you will do very well with the people at the churchs for you are very compassionate. Coming from the heart is so important to me in my daily life and I let go of anything or anyone that prevents that.

Peggy

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Re: Vice Presidents

Peggy,
I don't see anything in your last post that offers any further insights to the dream. I do get the impression that because you have never felt protected and supported as you do with Rozie, plus the fact you are at that age where lose is a usual thought, as well as all the people you know who are suffering, these factors likely play a major role in your fears. A primary purpose of dreams is to help resolve emotional conflicts. I take a position that goes a bit beyond what Jung expounded that dreams are naturally and 'intentionally' therapeutic. Much like the immune system is the body's defense against physical illness so too the dream a defense against emotional illness. The dream is trying to help the dreamer resolve emotional issues.

As for the inclusion of Bush and Mondale in the dream, your earlier experiences could very well have played into this. And because dreams do address issues from a day or two prior to the dream, recent news about Bush's illness may have been a stimulus for their inclusion as symbols.

Your remark about wanting to die 15 minutes apart from Rozie brought back memories I have of a close aunt and uncle who passed away within a day of each other. The uncle had been ill for some time and hospitalized but my aunt had no indications of illness, She died of a heart attack the day after he passed away.

You speak of your art. Jung believe heavily in using the creative aspects as a way of treating emotional conflicts as well as developing wholeness. Jung influenced the practice of art therapy with his respect for visual imagery and the profound psychological meaning he found inherent in artwork. Jungian art therapists may suggest art as a means to explore dreams and archetypal images in search of personal meaning.

Archetypal art therapy
A post-Jungian archetypal therapist would be less likely to translate an art image into a concept but would instead imaginatively explore the metaphors within an image. First named by James Hillman in 1970, archetypal therapy emphasizes staying with an image through imaginative exploration-the image includes the artwork, the client’s behavior in art making, and the therapist’s interactions. Archetypal psychology as represented n the work of Carl Jung, James Hillman, Mary Watkins, Patricia Berry and David Miller involves stepping away from the interpretation of symbols and archetypes toward the use of metaphor in understanding one’s imagery. “Listening” to the voice of the image through description and active imagination helps to deepen the qualities of the imagery and their meaning.

You may want to read about Jung's art therapy as a tool in your 'recovery' as well as the fears you have about death. Here is a link that will provide some insights Psyche & Muse: Creative Entanglements with the Science of the Soul.

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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