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reoccurring themes

Hey y'all. I have been going through a weird phase as of late where my dreams' theme may carry out night after night. While for me, that is typical, what's weird is now characters or references have been becoming recurrent. Let me provide an example:

I have been dreaming for weeks about food. In dreams I've been on a quest for it; received exotic food and ate it not knowing exactly what it was, but I enjoyed it and even shared it; I've watched others eat; I've denied wanting or accepting foods; I've even fished and went shopping. I had a dream about feeding others and about others feeding me. In most of my dreams, I never get to see me actually aquire the food. At least this was the case for a while, but then:

I dreamed that I went to a street vendor stand. The vendor was a Louisiana woman who casually talked with me about New Orleans culture while I waited for the vegetable stew she was making me (on the spot and from scratch) to cook, and as she did my nails. It didn't take long (about the time it takes to get a hot dog w/trimmings) and she put in a carry out bowl with a lid and placed this in a carry out brown paper bag. I thanked her and paid, and was turning to leave when she grabbed me by the face and said, "aw, naw, you finna taste some of dis now!" Gingerly, she dipped her ladle into the pot and spoon fed me right then and there. The stew was wonderful. As soon as the flavors burst forth in my mouth, I awoke.

But it doesn't stop there. In that same dream, moments before, while waiting in line at the post office (outside of which was the vendor's stand), a man let me go ahead of him saying that I should go on as he was just awaiting his certificate as King of the Night (or City, or Street...or something along those lines which led me to think of Mardi Gras customs). (This night's dream theme was the post office)

This same man was a police officer in another dream who escorted me back into a building where I was causing a ruckus.

He was my crush in another dream.

He was a waiter in another.

The vendor lady has been a cashier, a background dancer, and a dinner companion.

She always does something to reference NOLA (New Orleans, LA) either by food, custom, or conversation.

In my very last dream, she and I, along with a male professor friend of ours were out for dinner (eating fish). She looked at him and said, "you ever been to New Orleans?" I awoke immediately thinking of High John de Conqueror Root. (No, I don't practice hoodoo/voodoo or santeria, but I don't have any problems with their practice).

In that dream set (I have multiple lucid themed dreams each night) the theme was fish: first I dreamt of a fishing where I ensnared a gigantic black goldfish, although I could not quite reel it in --and I don't think I was really trying to; then I dreamed I was at a restaurant with my brother eating shrimp with the heads still on (their beadie little eyes made it so I could only take one bite of one before the 'grossness yucks' set in). In my dream I called them crawfish. I only tried one to try something new (as, either waking or sleep, I have no real desire to eat those things.) Then, at dinner with the NOLA woman (whole'nother meal, dream, time of day, etc.) I had batter dipped fish.

While I understand the symbolism and general meanings of nourishment, food for the soul, dual embodiments of myself manifest as 'others', enlightment of the consciousness and all that, what I don't understand is: why do I keep dreaming of THIS dude and NOLA woman, and why do I continuously dream of foods-- could there be an issue I thought was addressed that keeps resurfacing(?); and what could all of these references to NOLA mean? It has never been a place of major significance in my life, nor has its customs (notwithstanding the devastation of Katrina, of course).

While every dream in the last month or so has had a food element, the general theme differs from night to night. The guy and lady are now a new recurring element and are unfamiliar. Like bit players in sketch comedy, they play different roles each night/dream.

Am I going loopy? Are dream themes natural?

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Re: reoccurring themes

Katchi,
A lot to work with but I do sense a pattern in the first dream {have not read the second and beyond as yet}. Since you state the dream starts out with the post office scene I will start there and then move to the narrative about the street vendor.

What I get from the whole post office action is this:
You are receiving a message from the unconscious {dream} having to do with nourishment {next to vendor's stand}. Your masculine aspects are predominate but that is only the conscious window dressing.

Forward to the rest of the dream:
The vendor's stand is a place for giving nourishment in return for compensation. The underlying statement may be 'you are 'selling' emotional nourishment and at the same time you are getting something in return'. This along with the post office scene seems to be the start of a pattern {an emotional patter of behavior is what an interpreter looks for in a dream}.

The Louisiana woman would be another aspect of yourself. Because there is mention of the NO culture we may be able to link this part to the 'cultural' aspects of the dream {dreams normally consist of personal, cultural and archetypal aspects}. Although you are not from NO there is probably something that is related to this culture that has influenced your psyche {look at past relations to recent experiences involving NO}. You are 'waiting/preparing' for food/nourishment, a mixture of various emotional nourishment {vegetable stew}. Note the two actions, waiting to receive and preparing. I sense this is following the pattern I mentioned earlier and of which I will elaborate later.
Doing your nails may be addressing 'ego conscious materiale', outer dressing.

There are immediate actions in play {on the spot from scratch, it didn't take long}. And it is about 'carrying-out, a reference perhaps to actions that follow a pattern of behavior. There is appreciation in one aspect and 'having paid' in another {a giving and receiving}. You are tasting what is being given, a wonderful experience.

Can you discern a pattern from the above that fits your personality?

The police officer is your animus who has 'the' authority over the emotional conflict {ruckus}.

The waiter is again your animus and he is the server of what is being given, another authoritative position.

The woman plays a secondary role {cashier, 'background' dancer and companion}. This suggests your masculine aspects are playing an authoritative role in your life. But there is also a secondary role being displayed by the woman figure {it would not have importance if it were not mentioned in the dream}.

This all, for me, fits with a pattern.

-------------------------------------------------------


Let's go to the second dream and see what is in it that may lend itself to this scenario. Often dreams will repeat the same actions except with different symbols. I see this a lot in long dreams.

The three of you {three aspects} are outer entities taking in 'food for the soul' {fish}. The masculine aspect here is a higher 'teaching' aspect, a positive role {the patterns of the masculine does seem to fit positive positions}.

The link to NO is may have been established with the 'High John de Conqueror Root' comment. You obviously are familiar with this term. But 'he' may serve a deeper meaning, not so much to do with voo doo spells but the shadow aspects. He is said to be a trickster figure in African Americanculture.

Note: Your shadow would be seen as a female figure. Thus, if this has to do with shadow then it would involve your animus as shadow {African American}. I am not aware of ever reading about such a thing in my Jungian studies but I have encounter symbolic illustrations before in working with dreams. If in fact I am interpreting this correctly then your animus would be a shadow figure. Such a figure would be compensatory. But since he is your animus it may be you are compensating the compensatory aspects. In other words you are playing the role of the masculine in your waking life with the masculine compensating what is lacking in your inner life.
Confused? So am I.

To your next dream statement {of which I am now reading for the first time}.

"The theme was fish". Soul food. The symbol for wholeness. And communications with the unconscious {where wholeness is to be found-discovering the true self}.

Black goldfish. Unconscious links to the soul. All three words are pointing to soulful nourishment {black-gold and fish}. You have yet to fully understand your true self {reeling it in}. But that has not stopped you from living this part of you. You don't need to 'try', it is a part of who you really are and how you live your life'.

You are with your brother, another masculine aspect, eating shrimp with heads/crawfish. It was disgusting.
There are disgusting aspects in your life, something you yourself do not wish to 'take in'. You had rather live a life of giving from the soul {fish}, an inner spiritual quality. On the outside, the waking ego life, you utilize your masculine qualities. He is the inner woman, the NOLA woman.

Do you recognize the pattern? Providing nourishment to others, something you need to do to fulfill what may be lacking inside. Are you that type person, perhaps to an extreme? I see a positive quality more than anything and although there may be experiences of needing to receive nourishment in 'exchange' I don't sense any major psychic disturbances. Such disturbances would come from early life experiences or later life traumatic experiences. My take is you are a natural giving person {perhaps to extreme} and by giving you are receiving 'nourishment' in return.
The pattern of which I spoke of earlier would be of a 'person who give of herself a lot, perhaps too much. It fits with your soul identity but with all dreams there are aspects of compensation of what is lacking inside. Is this your personality?

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You



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Re: reoccurring themes

Jerry:
See, this is the reason that I will always come back to this site time and time again.
To answer your questions honestly, I am known as a giver to the extreme and am often warned from my receivers about giving too much of myself away...they still take, tho. I have to say that even where I felt you didn't get what I was implying with my comments, you never said a wrong thing... but you definitely did confuse me a bit where you asked if you confused me. I'm hafta go back and read that. I think I need clarity on what you meant when you referred to the shadow of the shadow.

{{Are you saying that I have begun to emulate my shadow? Oh, and I don't exactly get the "african american" animus as shadow... we're all african american, the NOLA woman, the guy, and myself. Would/should I expect anything different? (I'm not offended in the least, just confused). Do people have shadow aspects that are of different races from their own? --should I have mentioned that I was black? (Lol)-- And are you saying my shadow is female and my animus is male, but somehow my shadow has been 'acting just a little too butch'? Yeah, I'm really confused by that note.}}

I never consider NOLA to be an active aspect of my life because I don't have any real conscious ties to it, BUT: back in 2/2005, I was trying to decide on whether to move to Atl (something familiar) from Memphis or NOLA (something new), I chose Atl with perfect timing. One month later, Katrina. I've discussed with family that I've been drawn to NOLA in dreams and symbols, and found out I actually have undiscovered family there. This very morning I found out that the old stories I used to love about how 'Ole John Beat the Devil' and the purple flowers I photographed when I lived in Oakland earlier this year are both John de Conqueroo! I also found uses for its root, and I must admit, all of this ties in with your interpretation of my need of nourishment and of my self development. Although it was never actually mentioned in the dream, I could definitely benefit from its associated attributes. Still, I wonder how my mind jumped from her question of "Have you ever been to New Orleans?" while asleep, to my saying "High John" while images of the root clung in my head upon waking--although I pictured it as having yellow flowers.

Regarding the shrimp/crawfish, visually it was (is) disgusting, I can't even look at a picture of them (crawfish) w/o my 'flesh crawling', but I couldn't deny that they were in fact quite good, especially with the butter sauce. I just couldn't enjoy eating something with it watching me. (They had the head of shrimp with the meat texture and taste of crawfish, served like cocktail shrimp as if standing in a circle waiting to be eaten from their glass bowl, ew.) After what you said, it appears that although it may be repulsive outwardly, it was still good to me inwardly, and I am not shunning the experience all together, I am at least testing things out, no matter how gross. But really, I couldn't eat them due to feelings of sympathy. (Side note: If crawfish are as good as they were in my dream, and if somebody gets rid of the "ew, buggy looking parts" before I see it, I think I could get hooked! AND: when I dream of fish, three people in my family always turn out to be pregnant--tested and true! Yeah...my family is checking all the daughters as I write it and you read it. How about that for mojo?)

I plan to delve deeper to understand how exactly I am rooted to NOLA consciously. Maybe I'm being called?

Thanks for your insights. You are a gift & a treasure. I look forward to your response.
Katchi

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Re: reoccurring themes

Katchi,
Being a 'giver' to an extreme is what I got from the dream. I also sensed an issue of 'receiving' support from your giving. By that I mean you covet being a giver, you get support for your outer ego personality. This likely due to your personality type and partly to fulfill deeper aspirations of the opposites within your psyche {Jung tells us our inner self is opposite our outer personality and vice versa, the reason being to form a balanced psyche}. The giver in the outer life would be balanced in a role of a 'receiver' in the inner life.

The confusion is as much on my part as it is yours and has to do with my proposing an animus aspect is a shadow aspect. This is contrary to Jungian theory that the shadow in dreams would be the same sex as the dreamer. The African American would be a shadow aspect, one aspect of your 'trinity' {physical body, mental mind and the soul or metaphysical}. I retrospect I derived the 'African American' part from the High John de Conqueror Root legend {you are absolutely correct when you state we are all of 'African American' descent since original evolutionary man came from Africa.

But you may have cleared up that 'subjective' observation by revealing you are indeed black/African American {I could be wrong but I believe we established this previously in another dream post}. The statement about High John de Conqueror Root legend could be an archetypal reference but not to a masculine shadow but to 'origins' of why you are a giver in your conscious life {which goes to the root of the imbalance of the outer to the inner aspects}. Why are you such a giver, what reasons of experience causes you to live that role? There must be a compensating role of the inner self, balancing what is lacking in the outer being. Your shadow is not acting butch but compensating for the outer 'giver' personality you possess.

As I said, I was more confused than you. Hope this clears that up. I staunchly believe in Jung's theories and to alter any part of what he has established what be foolish on my part, intuitive psyche or not.

As for the New Orleans references in the dreams. Being drawn to NOLA would likely be the connection and a stimulus for its inclusion. Discovering you have 'undiscovered family' there would multiply that. There may be associations to those 'undiscovered roots' of family to your undiscovered 'psyche/psychic' aspects. If so they would be related to the reasons you are a giver in your waking life. There may be archetypal reasons for your interest in John de Conqueroo, those being associated with your true being, the photography when you were in Oakland? Perhaps the dream is addressing the creative aspects, the metaphysical third part of your trinity. The dream may have ended on that note {"As soon as the flavors burst forth in my mouth, I awoke"}. Could the 'flavors' that have not been communicated {burst forth in my mouth"} have to do with creative aspects? Could your need to be a 'giver' a response to the actual true self which when in bloom would be a 'photographer'? In my early adulthood I compensated my lack of 'fatherly love and acceptance' with numerous female relationships, never realized my true calling was in psychology {although I had an inkling of it, having taken courses in sociology while in the army and always having had an interest in psychology}. If my early life had been different I could very easily realized my potential and become a psychologist. As per the instructions of Joseph Campbell: we have two opportunities to realize our bliss. One when we are young, in our late teens/early adulthood, and again at mid-life. I discovered Campbell and Jung at the age of 42.

Where are you at the mid point of the mid-life transition? Have you discovered your 'bliss'? Could it have to do with photography? Could your dreams be directing you to follow your true path as well as addressing the 'giver' in you? The muse is a giving aspect, metaphysically. Perhaps by directing your energies to the metaphysical aspects you will fulfill the 'receiving' aspect of the shadow. That is what happened in my life. I went from a couch potato whose mental energies were focused on the material world to an intuitive role of interpreting dreams.

A word about the 'trickster' I failed to elaborate on in my original interpretation even though I did mention it. The trickster in mythology, the High John de Conqueror in your dream, could be considered to be a general god archetype. Joseph Campbell called the trickster "the chief mythological character of the Paleolithic world." Carl Jung referred to the trickster as the expression of a "preconscious" state. This could be referencing the creative aspects of your true being, the 'God' archetype being your higher calling. If we take the ancestral roots as your true being {African America} as an archetypal reference then the dream may indeed be addressing a another aspect of your 'giving' personality. The preconscious state would be Jung's 'personal unconscious'. Your 'giver' attitude would fit with this personal unconscious role. The collective unconscious role would be the High John de Conqueror, an archetypal image, the higher 'Self' that is fulfilled by the metaphysical aspects of the creative aspirations, or a calling to the higher aspirations. Such aspirations are often neglected in early adulthood in favor of fulfilling society's requirements {as I did in my early adulthood, neglecting the call of my bliss in favor of unconscious needs of healing what was lacking from childhood-a lack of a father figure to support me}.

WOW! How easy it is to get off track. Again I hope I am not confusion you. If so please let me know by asking questions.

Regarding the shrimp/crawfish. In the dream you 'called them crawfish'. Perhaps this too is addressing archetypal aspects since this is a normal term used by the 'Cajun' peoples of Louisiana of French descent. But of course it is also a normal term sued in the south and something i hunted in 'creeks' when i was a boy {you are from Memphis, I from Nashville}}.

The fact you find them disgusting would somehow likely play into something you find disgusting in your life. The sympathy factor could play a role. Personal associations are usually impossible to interpret in dreams so those would need to be determined by you. The compensation factor may be a part of it {repulsive outwardly, it was still good to me inwardly}. There may be 'synchronicity' associations in play also. Three is a constant number in your dream. Three pregnancies anytime dream of fish. Co-incidence? Or is there metaphysical aspects in play beyond just your emotional conflicts. You say you don't practice voo doo {Vodun}. Have you checked for such possibilities with your NOLA ancestors? Could that be the calling? When we delve deep into the psyche we are conjuring up things beyond the realm of the norm.

This is a primary reason I have such a great interest in exploring the dream world and the deeper psyche. Not only the role of self discovery but perhaps discovery of things never brought to light. Jung did it and discovered the secrets of the dream.
Fascinating to say the least?

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: reoccurring themes

(Jerry, I swear this could go on for days) I'll try to answer as I remember:

I am sure that there have been some not-so main stream spiritual practices in my family, however I know of no one personally. But certain things as such as these have a way of catching up, and I admit, those areas of practice spark minor interest, but interest, nonetheless. High John was only known to me as a root (until this morning) to be used with the Psalms by little old ladies shopping at Aswabs on Beale Street. And it was never mentioned in my dream. Nor was the African Prince mentioned or seen. The words simply popped in my head when I woke.

See, my muse flows through writing. I make a conscious effort to recall my dreams (even controlling certain aspects during my dream occasionally, and reminding myself to remember that I am dreaming and to remember what I see if it gets too weird) in case inspiration comes upon waking. But I had, for the longest time, been experiencing writer's block. Then, a writer's lethergy (lol). In oakland, transferred the creative blockages into pictures of purple flowers, but my passion is written illustrations. (Why take a photograph when I can paint one for you with words?)

I have to admit, however, that while I have little material wealth, I am blessed. I always have been. All my life I have been around givers and teachers and people who shared and worked for peace. Basically, I was raised to share (I am an eldermost child), and teach others to follow suit. Even by public profession, I worked as a public servant. I once read a sign that said "freely take and freely give", I thought it was the most brilliantly ironic thing ever to be found in a capitalist enterprise (a store). But it made sense, so I adopted the theory and have been light of heart and blessed to give ever since. And I'm ok with giving and receiving, as long as it is equal. But I don't think it has been laterly, hence the dreams.

After your last post, I went into the glossary and read on animus and shadow (I read the whole page, actually) to try to understand what you might have meant. I honestly don't get how either of them could be shadow aspects (as polar opposites to my 'self') unless I am the one doing me wrong (huh?) But he fits as my animus, definitely. She felt more like an archetype. She has a sorta 'fairy god-mother' quality to her that's breezy yet helpful, and she smiles more than I do. (That's A LOT!) I also found that there are always at least two extra people in my dreams with me. One stays with me for interaction/companionship, and the other may just be there only for a moment or in the background. For example, in the post office, he and I were the only ones in line, but there was also the mail clerk calling "next!"; later, as I got my soup and nails done, he was a block away doing cartwheels and flips or something street entertainingly fun. But when he was my waiter, (whole'nother dreamset) my female cousin was my companion and mostly silent, yet, the NOLA chick came to our table and was just chatting us up (yes, about NOLA). Then later gave us a ride home. (Nevertheless, notice the food theme?)

We did mention my race regarding another dream, but I didn't think you'd recall (sharp!), but I struggle with trying to remember my culture & dialect isn't conveyed in as obvious a manner if I'm not seen or heard...plus I just forget unless someone says something to remind me. But I still don't get what you meant about that part in reference to the shadow. Objectively, I never really dream ouside my race or current friend circle (I had few black friends in Cali), and never considered anyone else did either (although I have dreamt in spanish). But what confuses me most is the Jung-speak. It's okay for you to test new theories on my dreams, but say it plain. He always kinda did confuse the heck outta me. Plus, you might've been on to something. Can you restate it in a slightly less confusing way for us both? (Lol)

Oh, lastly, I meant to mention that, in regards to High John, the attributes associated to the herb such as favorable influences, protection, power, wealth and love, as well as his personified character of craft and cunning, his unbreakable spirit, wit, assertiveness and charm could all do me favor to realize my goals, gain insight and knowledge, and nourish my soul with good company and good times as he was also known for. But who knows?

(Katchi )

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Re: reoccurring themes


Katchi,
I will provide a more detailed response later. In the meantime me provide you with more information on the shadow so to be clear about its meaning. You will see from what I provide that your High John does not meet the normal requirements of Jung's shadow and that is why I stated that when I presented it to you in my interpretation. But there are always possibilities of unknown or unseen qualities of a myth {High John} that would fit. The fact you have a strong masculine trait as a giver could lend itself to further possibilities. The fact that 'he' was associated with 'folk magic' from other cultures also leaves the door open. Folk practices like hoodoo are trans-cultural phenomena and because of that there may be archetypal associations. And as me are reminded by Jung himself, none of his concepts/theories are fixed. He went to great strides to let it be known that he had no 'dogma' when it came to his philosophy of the dream or psyche. Leave no stone unturned and eventually something new will be found.

The following is information I have edited {in preparation for the scheduled classes on dreams I will present in Melbourne Fl.} from Anthony Stevens short book {content as well as size} Jung: A Very Short Introduction. You mat want to purchase the book {it will most likely need to be ordered} since it is probably the best short introduction source on Jungian psyche available. It costs less than $10.00. It is also available on CD {I have both}



The Shadow
The shadow is the disowned subpersonality, hidden away in the ‘Freudian’ unconscious

It persists as a powerful dynamic we take with us where we go-a dark companion which dogs our steps, just like the shadow we see when light is shined on us and leaves a shadow

Much of the time we manage to ignore it but it has an uncomfortable way of reminding us of its presence, particularly in our dreams

In dreams the shadow tends to appear as sinister/threatening figure possessing the same sex as dreamer
Not infrequently appears as a member of a different nation, color or race and usually has an alien or hostile feel about it which gives to powerful feelings of distrust anger of fear

The shadow is a complex, a cluster of traits bound together by common affects and has an archetypal core, the archetype of the Enemy, the Predator, or the Evil Stranger

Of all archetypes the Enemy is the most important and it becomes apparent during the first year of life

An infant is delighted to be approached by the mother but shows signs of wariness or withdrawal when approached by a stranger

By the second year of life this fear of xenophobic { fear of people from other places} propensity ripens into a full blown expression of fear and hostility

Both attachment and xenophobia are innate predispositions-they appear inn infants wherever they are born and in whatever circumstances they are brought up-even blind and deaf children {differentiate by smell}

the archetype of the enemy is 'actualized’ in the personal psyche as the shadow complex through growing up in a human social environment

two sources of the shadow complex-cultural indoctrination and familial repression {relating to family}

cultural source includes what is politically taught about out-groups considered to be hostile to ones in-group {nation, band or tribe}
and theologically about the concept of evil {Satan, hell, Devil}

the shadow inevitably comes to possess qualities opposite those of the persona
the shadow compensating for the superficial pretensions of the persona
the persona balancing the antisocial characteristics of the shadow
{Dorian Gray-Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde}

Keeping the shadow out of sight is not an act of will but as an act of submission to the inner authority
Freud’s super-ego, what Jung called the moral complex

It is not because there is a fear of being, as Freud believed, castrated by the father as a reprisal for entertaining incestuous desires
but rather a fear of being abandoned by the mother for being unacceptable

the dread prospect of being rejected due to some ‘bad’ aspect of the self seems to be the stimulus of all feelings of guilt, all desire for punishment, and all longings for atonement and reconciliation

the moral complex forms on the basis of an archetypal imperative to learn and maintain the values of the culture we are born
if no such imperative existed we all be psychopaths, incapable of co-operation or mutual trust

acquisition of the moral complex imposes severe restraints on the Self, much which is regulated to the shadow, where it is experienced as a threat

to counter this threat there are ego-defense mechanisms such as repression, denial and projection

this is done unconsciously, we are not aware we do it, an act of ego preservation which let’s us deny our ‘badness’ and project it onto others {shadow projection}

shadow projection is involved in the psychiatric symptom of paranoia

most demanding part of Jungian analysis is confronting the shadow-the whole shadow complex is tinged with guilt and unworthiness and fears rejection

a result of suffering from this self-division is feeling flat and listless and life becomes meaningless

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You



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Re: reoccurring themes

Katchi,
One other thought before I head to the gym for one of my thrice weekly workouts {physical fitness has been a part of my lifestyle for the past 33 years}.

I doubt there are many if any at all of the archetypal discoveries that can be added to that Jung has no already presented. But cultural aspects may be a different thing. One criticism for the limitations of Freudian psychology was due to Freud's limited introduction to various levels of people on a social/economic scale. Freud's primary practice as a psychologist was limited to the wealthy, elite in Vienna, especially women who suffered from what Jung called a social induced fad aliment. On the other hand Jung worked with many different peoples on the social/economic scale and thus explored the wider possibilities {and thus his wider discoveries}. We know he even worked with homosexuals. But what experience did he have with Africans, African Americans or other people with dark skin {I may be asking a question that has a simple answer}? The archetypes would be the same since the origins of mankind, archetypes, are to be found within all humans. But could the cultural difference affect the dream or the psyche? Would it make a difference in the dream of a black woman who dreams of a black man on an archetypal scale? Joseph Campbell spoke of the Black Madonna or Dark Goddess as a significant archetypal symbol of transition in a man's dream. In fact I had such a dream of Kali just at a time I was undergoing a major transition in my life. This is a feminine archetype that possesses great powers to affect the psyche. Could there be the same associations to to your High John as with my Kali dream?
Inquiring minds need to know.

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: reoccurring themes

I will definitely check that book out. You've given me plenty to ponder. I'm a bit curious, though, of the focus on what I spoke upon waking more than the elements inside the dream. Also, none if the characters in my dream posed any type if threats. Actually, they seemed helpful and pleasant. Even the food turned out better than I thought it would. My concern was over the suggestiveness of the woman towards the place, and why she and the man always appear somewhere in each dream. It was suggested that these could very well be spiritual guides (even as a cop, the guy wasn't there to arrest me, but make me confront the situation as opposed to running away from it, like I was trying to do.) Antagonizing, evil, or threatening dreams for me are extremely rare, and these recurring characters are extremely common. Which makes me wonder if I am the shadow? Is that possible?

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Re: reoccurring themes

Katchi,
Let me respond to your last post and then to the prior response. I apologize for mt lengthily response but since I now have the time I find myself saying more about the dream as it applies to the dream post.

I didn't sense the dream was a negative dream as such from the beginning. It was as much a statement of your personality type. That is, on the surface. "My concern was over the suggestiveness of the woman towards the place, and why she and the man always appear somewhere in each dream."

The place is you and the place you are in at this 'place' in your life. The man is your masculine attributes of being an 'overly giving person'. I don't see the men as spiritual guides but guides to the inner conflicts that the 'giving' aspects present in your waking life. I am looking at your personality of being a giving person as a defense mechanism {you are compensating outwardly for what you need inwardly}. I may be wrong but my sense of the dream as well as my own life experiences point to this*. Let's go back to the dream {not only am I now trying to emulate Jung I am using his words}. Especially since we have established a few aspects about you and your life.


Food is emotional nourishment. Your quest is for emotional nourishment. What you do as a 'giver' is watch others enjoy the emotional nourishment you give for them. Yet you 'deny' wanting and 'accepting food. This would be self denial of the inner resources. Fishing and shopping is for wholeness you seek {fish is even a symbol for wholeness}. When you 'give' you are also 'giving' to yourself, compensating for what is lacking in your inner being. You have yet to 'acquire' the emotional nourishment you seek.

As a 'street vendor' your job is to sell yourself and in dreams those are commodities you sell to yourself. Those commodities, in my sensing and as a deeper reflection as to what the dream is focused, is the compensating of the inner with your outer personality {which in Jungian psyche are opposites}. In Jungian psyche 'the shadow inevitably comes to possess qualities opposite those of the persona'. Beyond the aspects of 'High John' {sorry for the confusion but I am trying to establish for myself other possibilities beyond the norm of Jungian psyche} this could be the primary focus of the dream. I sense that.

The woman was from NOLA talking about the NOLA culture. I see two aspects to this, French, a foreign land, and African American {which was brought home with the suffering of black people much more so than whites during Katrina}. The foreign land would be the foreign aspects that have yet to be discovered about yourself {shadow?}. The vegetable stew is the stew you have created in your life. The carry out bag is what needs to be brought out about the inner self, but it has a lid. You have left this aspect hidden.

In your unconscious actions to 'leave this hidden' {the ego does this as a defense mechanism so not to have to confront the painful truth}. She grabs your face {a symbol for the ego persona}
"aw, naw, you finna taste some of dis now!"

'She', your unconscious dream, is attempting to communicate the inner self that desires/needs emotional nourishment. To realize you are compensating for inner desires/needs would be 'wonderful' since it would help the healing of what is lacking inside. Such realizations can be life changing. And because you are at that mid point of the mid life thing it is only ordinary for such changes to be made. Physically, psychologically and spiritually.

Prior to all this {in the dream}, the actual opening of the dream which would provide the primary subject the dream is trying to 'deliver' {post office}, you are waiting to be 'get ahead' {compensating what is 'behind' in your unconscious self} and be 'certified' as the King of the Night, the outward rewards that you compensate in your outer life. With your 'giving' personality you are unconsciously seeking to compensate for what is lacking in your inner self. This would more likely go back to childhood and earlier life experiences.

I believe this is what this dream and the other dream is 'primarily' trying to communicate.

But we have established that you are happy with your 'giving' personality, that the tone of the dreams is not threatening. This may be a 'facade' because of your very strong personality. Or it could be your early life experiences were not so much 'depriving' as they are learning experiences. in that light there would likely be experiences where proper emotional nourishment may have been lacking but not greatly so. Or in lieu of the nourishment normally expected/required there were experiences that compensated for those with enriching experiences of other kinds. As an example, child growing in a family of perform artists may not get 'ALL' of the love and acceptance needed but the experiences related to the 'art' would compensate for that. You notice I am using the word compensation a lot.

The task then would be to determine if in fact there was something early on that form your personality that is now being compensated for in adulthood. This is usual stuff for most people, I know it was for me. And when I finally realized this, well let's say the taste in my mouth was 'bursting with flavor', it tasted so good. And when did this come about in my life? It began when I was 42.



*To comment on my personal experiences. I have a female friend who has a personality much like yours. She is a 'giver' on a supreme level but in being such she cause so many 'misfortunes' in her own personal life. I know her life fairly well but there are childhood experiences that I do know about, experiences I know are a reason for her personality type. There was an experience with her a few years ago that demonstrated something even deeper that went beyond her personality of a giver. We broke off our friendship after that and have been trying to reconcile it once again. Slowly since i feel to enter into her life all at once, and as it was previously would do harm.

I have mentioned often my 'intuitive' abilities. Beyond those abilities in working with dreams I possess an ability to read people on initial contact I have problems remembering other things, the color of their hair or eyes, even names. But I can see beneath the surface. This is the intuitive ability we all possess, some people more than others. Developing this 'natural' skill is something I believe on can do if there is a real attempt to do. I know it has been quite beneficial for me in my business life as well as personal.


Comments on Your Previous Post
WOW! I am reading this post and just now realized the part about being around 'giving people'. I must say your words about "All my life I have been around givers and teachers and people who shared" hit the mark with my own words about 'enriching experiences of other kinds. Not that it is a new concept {I have no illusions about such discoveries} but that it was apart of your existence. I can see where these influences would have an affect on your psyche despite any childhood experiences that may have dented your well being {discovering what those are would be the task at hand}.

I understand your experiences as a public servant having worked as in public health as a codes inspector with the health department in Nashville for 13 years. Those experiences were invaluable, providing people experience that can't be bought.

Also there is the similar experience with 'capital enterprise' we share. I was a contractor for the past 34 years having started a fence construction business part time in 1978 and while working with the health department. That business now supports my son and his family. I think we both can say the two experiences combined provides an appreciation for both.
I'll have to tell you my story where a high school teacher turned my life around. He was African American. He was 'murdered' by his son for insurance money in the 1980s, in another post.

Experience is wisdom.

I think we went over the High John/shadow stuff. I am curious to what extend Jung had with 'Africans' of any nationality and the cultural affect it may have on dreams. Could it affect archetypal aspects? If a house is a 'fixed' symbol for the dreamer, so too the archetypal cave would have provided the same safe environment for early man. We so identify with our vehicles, was there such identifications with horses as a symbol for the dreamer before the car {car usually symbolize the direction we are going in life, among other associations with the dreamer and the vehicle}? I think you will agree book learning is very important but actual experience is much more valuable. I have studied Jungian psyche for 20 years now but the actual hands on experience in working with dreams has been the most educational.

To your comments about your writing. I believe one function of dreams is to expose this aspect of the psyche to dreamer so to lead them to it. The muse, that thing in life that is the 'bliss'. I 'preach' to anyone who will listen the importance of following your bliss. My oldest grandson started college this year and was trying to determine what to study. I reminded him of the bliss factor {something he has heard a thousand times from me}. He seems to have taken it to heart.

You state your 'giving and receiving' has not been 'equal' as of late. Could this be the call of the muse? It does seem to have been an important part of your evolution when you were in Oakland, what place does it have now? The hero/heroine of myth is on a search and no matter the metaphors used to express the experience in any story the ultimate search is for the spiritual self. One aspect of the spiritual is the creative. We give of ourselves by creating art, writing, painting, poetry, even things outside the muse that give meaning to the individual life. At mid life when we begin to reflect {in earlier stages of life we looked ahead} meaning in life becomes important and a part of our search. I found bliss when I began designing my Myths-Dreams-Symbols website {self taught} and working with dreams. Doing this brought me to my Individuation, going deep into my own psyche and reflecting on my childhood, discovering the underlying reasons for my propensity to 'run away' from relationships in adulthood.
Joseph Campbell's life was dedicated to this bliss factor Campbell is my spiritual teacher and responsible for my taking on Jung and dreams}. Jung also pointed to this vital aspect, naming the spiritual as a natural aspect of the psyche.

Could it be it is the dream is 'calling you to your bliss'? Take a look at Campbell's Monomyth, the stages in the hero adventure and see if they correspond with your journey. Not all of course, they tend to be repetitive and applicable according to the stage of life you are in.

I think we have gone over about everything. Working with you on this dream has especially been educational and I want to thank you for sharing your story. We have established a lot but the last 'con' about the inequality of giving and receiving is what you want to work through. That and of course whatever there may be that was unequal in early life. I don't we established this inequality as a prime reason for these dreams. Of course now I think we can say it is.

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You



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Re: reoccurring themes

Jerry:
You have given me innumerable things to contemplate and invaluable information to synthesis pass my inner denial that the "sharing is caring" menatilty can be extemely draining. The more I think about your words, all I can think in response is 'why do I have to make my own soup and share it, too? Why can't someone make soup for me sometimes?' I agree that I have been suffering from a malnourishment that even my psyche recognizes as stifling, all the while trying to make sure others are fed. But I don't have to go all the way back to my childhood to understand the issue. Truly, most of the issues sprang up in my adult life when I was confronted with the harshness of very bad choices.
Everyday I have been trying to deal with those psychological effects. And they have been hidden and well concealed. No one seems to realize my discontent (blisslessness.) And while I'm not 'unhappy', I'm not unhealthy.
I guess it's time to take the lid off and taste 'dis now'!

Til we meet again...
--Katchi

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