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Re: My 3 Selves

This is Raymonde's post to My Dream: Cutting the Grass


Re: My Dream: Cutting the Grass-Shorter Summary-Interpretation Part 1



Hi Jerry ~

You are teaching me a lot by posting your dreams and own interpretations here. I am SO grateful for this!



I've been studying dreams for years and have accumulated journals and records of my dreams for the past 40 years. Only recently, since 2010, have I really been able to unlock my own symbol keys in order to understand my own dreams. I've also studied Jung, Robert Johnson, Hillman, Anthony Stevens, etc. as well as taken a course in dream interpretation while in Australia. I've joined groups, created my own, forums etc. in the hopes of connecting on the same level in dream understanding as I've attained - or aspire to - and I've quit all of them, for lack of said connection.



Not so here. Thank YOU! ... esp. for this, what you've just said above and which I truly believe also ... quoting you:



"As I do this I am once again going over the dream to see what new realizations come from that. Anytime one reviews a dream they are also reviewing their life. That is therapeutic, and often brings about new realizations and maybe new revelations. I am in fact, and practice, self-analyzing myself by interpreting this dream. This is exactly what Jung’s Individuation Process is all about and why dreams can be important to that process."



I will continue reading your interpretation now...

Raymonde





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Re: My 3 Selves

In response to your interpretation of my Phone Call Dream:
(Your quotes are italicized and bolded.)

I stand here grinning to myself because, Jerry, you have hit the nail on the head. I stand corrected. You are so right that ...

It isn't often a dream comes right out makes a direct statement there was a particular abuser

I recounted this dream without going back to find it in my records and so, I improvised – meaning that I didn’t report exactly what had happened in the dream, but rather I added my own interpretation to it, in addition to recounting the dream from memory. That wasn’t fair.

Let me correct that. In the dream, I am standing in the living room of my childhood home and facing the window. This window looks west. In the reality, that would be facing the road going west, where lived at that time the man who abused me that whole summer. In the dream, I do not ‘think’ of that or of my abuser, rather I am simply feeling safe because I am in the house in which I grew up. But then, the phone rings.

As a side-note, I have gone back to my records and looked but I can’t find this particular dream.

In your dream the ringing phone would represent an emotional conflict from the psyche that needs to be answered/addressed.

At the time of the dream, early 2011, I was still living in Australia with my husband and I was still in denial that my situation was seriously deteriorating. I was trying to keep so busy as to not think about the truth. It took me another 4 or 5 months to make it all conscious.

The fact this man is hiding reflects the hidden experience that has been stored into the unconscious and its continuing influence. The hiding is an unconscious hiding from the experience.

Yes, I was harbouring this blatant denial from myself but it was certainly having a bad influence on me and my relationship.

The impression you were far away would reflect your thinking you had resolved the issues surrounding the abuse. False impressions are just that. You are bstill abusing yourself unconsciously because it has not been fully resolved. It is still within you {house}. He has taken the form of your husband.

This is amazing! At this time, I was definitely “under the impression” that this part of my past had been successfully resolved, so why was I still dreaming of my abuser calling me? The cocoon of denial wrapped me up in a false security, on so many levels.

I was allowing myself to ‘be abused’ because I thought I didn’t deserve better, and that the pain of staying was worth it, for all the false security this provided. But my unconscious had other plans. I was not fulfilling my responsibility to my self (to my little girl who had been abused) to protect and care for myself properly.

That last statement could be important in it may reflect an unconscious influence that pushed you to marrying the man who you now know is not the person you want in your life. Consciously you were not aware, or even could be aware, the man you married woudl turn out to be the viloent person he has turned out to be. i am one who strongly believes that the intuitive mind recognizes things long before the conscious mind does.

This is under another light that I didn’t see this dream before, Jerry. The shock of the voice saying he “was here” propelled me into having to assess my situation in the ensuing months, but I never saw it related to ME still abusing myself by having chosen him to be my husband in the first place.

Yes, I have read the books, I have studied and admitted and been to meetings: codenpendency, addictions, and 12-stepping are very familiar to me. I know how two people are drawn to each other not only by the physical/obvious attributes, but more important by the unconscious drives that rule the behaviours and match each other in order to fulfill imperatives of which the conscious mind is totally unaware. Mine was a quest for mastery from way back, from the time of the abuse. But I thought I had healed all that! LOL!

Even that far back when you married him there may have been a intuitive recogniztion.

When we met in 2000, yes, I did recognise him ... emotionally being drawn to him like the proverbial moth to the flame. Many times, my conscious mind got flashes of doubts, earthquakes in my psyche that tried to warn me that something was wrong, from the beginning. But my need for being loved (validated, vindicated, whatever) was so strong that I was totally blinded to what he really was. Even back then, in the early months, he showed his violent side ... and I chose to overlook it, just like that! I accepted his excuses without a single thought or doubt. I had, after all, found the perfect man to take care of me. Ha!

The abuser in your childhood has to be compensated in real life.

Now this is more shocking than anything else. I get the part about finding a father to care for me, and having to heal this rift of helplessness (quest for mastery)... but how does the abuser come in?

What does my unconscious want me to integrate here? In marrying this (abusing) man, I married my abuser ... in order to heal the event’s traumatic effect on me as a little girl? This makes sense (in part) because, in doing this, I was presented again with the same scenario – different place, different characters – and I did escape. Eventually, I did end the marriage as it became impossible for me to hold this opposing knowledge in consciousness. I couldn’t continue lying to myself that my marriage was legitimate. I was here for all the wrong reasons and I had to leave.

I stopped the lie from continuing and I rescued myself, seeing the abuse for what it was and also seeing MY RESPONSIBILITY in having initiated it and accepting it for almost twelve years. That’s what hurt the most, seeing that I was still reacting from my unconscious desire to be cared for and everything done for me. Still being scared of life, of taking responsibility for myself. You are so right:

Unconsciously the reasons for this action of running away are from childhood/earlier life experiences and influences.

Instead of facing the conflict or the mess that I made, I usually ran away and conveniently forgot about it. I was running away – having moved to another province - when I met this man who became my husband. He offered to take me to Australia. Now that was a great place to run away to! My mother was sick, my sister and my family needed me, but no, I wanted to run away to get married. There are so many other things I have run away from.

Yes, Jerry, I was running away from my childhood and all the pain that contained. When my psyche decided to right these wrongs in my life by first, showing me where I was and what I was doing, I knew I couldn’t keep on running away anymore. So I came back home to face the familial conflicts, the debts we had left behind, and to help my dying sisters, among other things. Many other things.

My dreams are still helping me face my reality. For that, I am grateful and also for having found your forum. There is still so much to learn and grow with!

When you quote Campbell, “Follow your bliss,” I know at a deep, resonating level that my bliss is simply and actively growing towards my wholeness and individuation. We both know there is nothing easy about it, but simple – yes, if I continue to listen to my dreams.

Three days ago, I went on Amazon and almost ordered ‘The Power of Myth’ ... then changed my mind. I have never read it but it was calling me! Then I found your forum. Now I know I am meant to read that book. : )

Raymonde

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Re: My 3 Selves

Raymonde,
I'll begin a response and will finish if I should not have time to completer it before having to leave.

Over the past several years I have been able to see certain patterns in the structure in dreams and seldom if ever have I seen direct statements as you posted. Not there is a problem with doing that but dreams do seem to stay with certain patterns. Anytime I see the dream start out with a statement like yours, "I am standing in the living room of my childhood home" you can pretty know it is an actual statement of an experience during that period of time. The home/house is the dreamer. Often the dream statement will be of an unknown child in the home. But it is always about the experience as a child. I use Jung's structuring of dreams when possible {a lot of posted dreams lack a good sentence structure} and it does seem to fit in most dreams. Especially the initial setting and the ending.

Your recognition of the direction {West} can be important. It is another 'clue' to what the dream is trying to communicate. Directions and numbers are important. These are the little nuances I spoke of that help in understand dream patterns. Using the intuitive mind along with Jungian concepts and you have a good chance of understanding the dream message{s}.

It is odd you used this particular dream but could not find it in your journal. I very much believe in sychronistic events and there may be a reason for this. After my own chance encounter with Joseph Campbell that one Sunday afternoon on PBS I have become a convert of one of Jung's more controversial concepts. Of course Campbell provides other proof of the reliability of synchronous events. The Power of Myth is powerful reading for a mind that is open to the greater possibilities. Another obscure book that has finally received its proper attention is his 'Transformations of Myth Through Time. It has been repacked and renamed Mythos {which is hosted by Susan Sarandon}. Campbell is are beautifully articulate of what is often difficult language to understand. This book says so much about our origins, physical and psychological.

The ringing phone. I am always looking for tools that send messages from the unconscious. Again a common symbol for such communication. Especially when it is a context that points to such a communication. What is it that is 'unanswered' in your psyche? The same thing goes for 'hidden things'. I believe we should never take any symbol as concrete but there are those that do seem to have a standard meaning. Houses and cars, ships and other modes of transportation. We can't call them archetypal because they were not from the original psyche, at least not in the forms we know them today. Abodes and modes of travel could be thought as universal symbols but not quite archetypal.

Being far away in the context of the dream sent a statement to me that said this is 'far away' from your conscious mind. Again there is a pattern forming, creative a central motif in the dream. Once it starts to go in a certain direction it should play out to a point a motif is formed. If there is a a new direction which would point to something different I think the dream will be structured so to see it. A lot has to do to how a dream is posted. The way you wrote your dream makes it a lot easier to see a beginning and an ending. And new directions.

Of course in any dream the primary message is of an unresolved emotional conflict. In my mind that is what dreams are all about. A desire for the natural psyche to communicate to the dream of an emotional energy that has not been given its proper attention and needs resolution. Dreams are therapeutic. I equate the dream with the immune system of the physical body. Marion Woodman says the archetypes are to the psyche as DNA is to the physical body. Not all dream symbols are archetypal but their symbolic reference is to something central to the person's life. It is nature's way of helping with making us whole. Jung believe we were meant to be whole from the beginning but with all nature there are 'defects' that evolution eventually corrects.

I also strongly believe in the strong emotional influences and experiences of early life, especially childhood, as retaining an influence over who we become later in life. Unconsciously we act out what is lacking from our developing years of life. Most all of us have issues from childhood. many dismiss their importance in later life but it seems we tend to act out in ways that supports these influences. it is like the glove and the hand. They go together as one when worn.

The intuitive mind has great powers. I realized some years ago I do possess intuitive abilities, not only with dreams but in general. Put that together with my many years of working with people {I was a health codes inspector for 12 years where I was in constant contact with all types and levels of personalities}. Having been married thrice and many other emotional relationships has provided a catalog of experiences I now can use when working with other people's emotional issues. been there done that has merits even tough I wish I could go back and redo much of the wrongs in my life. An intuitive mind, people skills and just plain common sense is worth more than any degree I could have received from a college. But of course it would be great if I had a formal training in Jungian psyche to go with I do possess.

The compensation I spoke of in your waking life as an adult was marrying a man who was abusive. We tend to continue the pattern of emotional behavior from early life on into adult life. A man with a devouring mother is likely to marry the same type woman. The emotional issues are unresolved and the first thing the physical mind wants to do is stay with it was brought up with. A negative pattern that has to be broken before wholeness can be realized. That is what you have finally done. Divorced your abuser, started on the real path of resolving your childhood abuse.

Your life of running is like mine. In my marriages when I could find happiness it was because of the void from childhood. Thinking it was with someone else, or something else, my addition was sexual. A lot of these patterns work themselves out but it is not until what the void is that we can resolution and true harmony in life. We all have additions and most often it is from early life experiences/influences. These influences don't make you do it but they are so strong the least bit of temptation will cause the pattern to continue throughout life, until resolved.

I strongly suggest you read Campbell. His articulation of Jungian psyche is unmatched. Another wonderful sage is Marion Woodman. I've read many of the same authors as you but these two provided a clear understanding of what it is all about. Another important author was Elaine Pagals. She helped me resolve my Christian roots with her introduction to the Gnostic Jesus. 'Secret knowledge' we all possess but few 'know' about. Unconscious knowledge of central truths that will set the conscious mind free.

Looks as if i got about all I wanted to say in the time I had available. I look forward to a continued dialog. Not something i get much of, especially with someone who has the same interests and knowledge I find important. There is quite a 'few' of us but hard to find and come together.


Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: My 3 Selves

Thank you, Jerry, for your very insightful words.
I had my weekly creative thing to do today, but I will answer your questions tomorrow morning, when I am 'fresher.'
You have convinced me, however, to try to get my hands on both The Power of Myth and on whatever I can find on Marion Woodman.
I will be back soon
Raymonde

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Re: My 3 Selves

Jerry,

I too find it amazing that I simply can’t find that particular dream in my records, which are otherwise meticulously dated and filed in an orderly manner. The reason I remember it so well is because I had a coaching session with a mentor at that time and I recounted the dream to her so I could work on it.

I have looked for that dream for literally hours and I still can’t find it. I’m starting to think that I must’ve dreamed it in another year altogether but used it for my coaching because it was so disturbing to me. I will just have to continue to look.

Directions in dreams are always very prominent and specific for me. Maybe it’s because I’ve studied the Four Directions, used them in workbooks I wrote, and I incorporated them in my own spiritual practice as well. My present Goddess-Shamaness studies/spiritual practice also embrace the earth’s cardinal points in a very meaningful way.

Of course in any dream the primary message is of an unresolved emotional conflict.

West for me is the place of introspection, learning and diving into the darkness/unconscious to uncover psyche’s treasures. In this dream, I am definitely being shown something important from my unconscious – the revelation that the abuser was still “with” me. I needed to see this and take this on board as very significant knowledge.

The emotional issues are unresolved and the first thing the physical mind wants to do is stay with it was brought up with. A negative pattern that has to be broken before wholeness can be realized. That is what you have finally done. Divorced your abuser, started on the real path of resolving your childhood abuse.

How does one resolve such a conflict? You say by breaking the negative pattern. Is this what I’ve done by leaving? Somehow I have a feeling that it’s not as simple as that...

I’ve moved away, came back home to Canada, and am now living close to where I was brought up, about 20 miles away. Occasionally I see him, the man who abused me that whole summer. Though I’ve worked on this wound for years, I feel there is yet more to be done. But what? I ask myself. Working on dreams is good, but it’s a slow, tedious process, I find.

So I’m writing a book and that seems to assuage the demons a bit. It’s a double-edged sword, though, as I know I need to work on and write about it. When I do, I invariably feel better for having done so. But it’s also a hard, painful process that I have a tendency to put off, ignore and ‘forget’ until the 2X4 hits me in the face again. Like the dream of the 3 Selves.

It’s as if my inner little girl will not let me rest until I have totally told her story, and put it out there. I’ve been fighting with this realisation for years! Sure I want to write a book, doesn’t everyone? Is this my persona (or ego) trying to make itself look all la-dee-da, look at me, I wrote a book on abuse.

I don’t want it to be about only the abuse. That is definitely not what my life is only about! This journey that is mine has been filled with pain, yes, but also multiple joys of integrating my unconscious knowledge and learning about psyche, about complexes, and how to heal them. Above all, I want to heal this one.

I had my share of addictions like you, Jerry, and I don’t want to be doomed to continue repeating the same psychic patterns until I die. I know the void, and she is my little girl’s need for validation and love. You are writing about me when you say this, it’s true.

Your life of running is like mine. In my marriages when I could find happiness it was because of the void from childhood. Thinking it was with someone else, or something else, my addiction was sexual. A lot of these patterns work themselves out but it is not until what the void is that we can resolution and true harmony in life. We all have addictions and most often it is from early life experiences/influences. These influences don't make you do it but they are so strong the least bit of temptation will cause the pattern to continue throughout life, until resolved.

It’s the process of healing, isn’t it? It can’t happen overnight and it’s not a fell swoop thing, but each dream, each insight generated, each emotional quake, all serve to bring some peace, some piece to the puzzle.

Thank you, Jerry. Your intuitive gift has helped me a lot.

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Re: My 3 Selves

Raymonde,
I use my education in Campbillian mythology to address many of the directions and numbers in dreams. West is the direction of adventure and in our true lives that is what we seek. Not what society dictates but what the soul longs for. Of course in Jungian psyche four is the number for wholeness and nine is associated with that as the feminine source of knowing. It is amazing how dreams use these numbers and directions as symbol and metaphor in dreams. And although we never say there is a concrete fixed meaning I see a lot of consistency in numbers and directions. Even when dealing with personal issues of emotional conflicts, beyond the archetypal applications we would normally apply them to. I believe there is an archetypal influence on all dream images, what is not archetypal approaches in many instances a 'universal' application. For instance a house in a dream is always either symbolic of the dreamer or related to the dreamer in a very personal way. "I was in my mother's house" would be speaking to the relationship with the mother and since the dream is about the dreamer then it is a personal house. I find there is little deviation from this concept and when I use it in an interpretation I get a positive response.

About breaking the negative pattern. If it requires leaving your husband to resolve the issues, yes, that is what needs to be done. You are in a loveless marriage, one that likely was unconsciously assimilated to 'fulfill the abusive' nature you experienced as a child. You are punishing yourself eternally and one of the results is to marry an abusive person. You have to end that pattern.

About the man who abused you. He needs to be held accountable. I did not know this was something that continued in your life, still in contact with him. I can see also in your last posted dream where there may be a message about this {I will take another look at the dream and see where it may fit in}. Just as with the abused children in the Catholic church, a complete healing could not take place until one, it was brought out into the open and two, those who perpetrated the deeds were held accountable.

Another aspect to your last dream that may have an explanation in this post is about writing your book and it having a double edged sword. You ARE consciously and rightfully dealing with the demons by expressing it. As with my self expression through Myths-Dreams-Symbols I was able to see what is actually within me that needs expression. I did not have the physical abuse you experienced by the psychological abuse was something that had to be let out. You must tell her story as you said. This is how great literary works come about. They are often personal stories or taken from personal experiences. Beyond your creative self you are having to address the painful aspects of the abuse. Once again I can see where this applies to your last dream where you are having to force yourself to write. Delete, no add to, what I said about my personal experiences and apply your own inability to write this stuff down because the pain involved. This fits much better and I can see where it is applicable. You do not want it to be about the abuse although it is. It is your way of expressing yourself and in terms of bliss that is what you desire most. Not only about the abuse but also the inner self that seeks expression through creativity and spirituality.

It is a process of healing. It takes time but more importantly it takes an understanding of what causes the void within. For so many years I never knew what it was until I started my own inward search. It is first and foremost psychological. Once I identified what it was that drove me to act the way I did in my early adulthood I was able to put it in its place and move on. I broke the cycle of a 'dead beat dad' by making sure my son never experienced that. But I lacked my own healing and that was not possible until I went inward psychologically and discovered it was my dad's fault I never received the love and acceptance we all require. It is imprinted on the psyche of all animals. It did not make me do it but its energies so strong it pushed me to be as I was. And because of my stunted childhood it was logical to take the easy path and use something addictive in its place. These are common patterns of behavior and common themes in our dreams.

From what I can see you have taken large steps in breaking your pattern. By continuing to express yourself through your book and other creative aspects you will soon resolve those remaining issues. I said confronting the abuser is the way to go and it is likely true. But circumstances only you can know about should be taken into account. It may be something that is totally necessary. I never confronted my dad so there are ways around it. I decided to ignore him. He died a few years ago and I did not attend his funeral or give second thought to it. But i still at times grieve for that little boy as you do for your little girl. It can still be powerful emotions but they are fleeting. Now I have other resources to support me. I've changed my mold of thinking and that is how you change. If what you are thinking is painful you need only change what you are thinking about. Easier said than done but essential if there is to be wholeness in life.


Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: My 3 Selves

Jerry,
You are the first person to affirm that I must write this book and that my abuser must be made accountable. I don’t feel I want to confront him directly and in person, but in putting the book out there for people to read, people who both know me and also know him, I am confronting him, first in my psyche and secondly, in an indirect, but very public way.

All I can say for now is Thank You, Thank You, Thank You! for your continued help.

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Re: My 3 Selves

Raymonde,
Confronting in your book will be great therapy. I would never question your decision not to confront him directly. But i do have question. If you abused you could he have done it to others? Perhaps instead of confronting him it would be wise to let someone in authority to know he does have these tendencies. Give it some thought, talk to others close to the situation and see what they think.


Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: My 3 Selves

Jerry,

I appreciate your concern as I have had over 50 years to think of exactly what you mention. I have spoken with my friends, who know the situation, but I have never come up with a definite answer as to whether it would serve any purpose in initiating a confrontation. What would be my motive? my intent?

This secret of mine has eaten away at me for decades. The courage to 'do something about it' has eluded me and kept me from living a full-on, normal life, and it still to a certain extent, haunts me.

In coming here to talk truthfully and openly about my dreams, which I have never done in my life, I am doing something about it in the only way that the frightened little girl in me knows how. By taking small steps, being open to what my dreams mean, being helped by you, and writing about it in my book.

That is all I can do for now.

This is stirring up some really disturbing stuff and all day I have kept busy trying not to think about it. But... I don't want to stop the seeking and the growing.

I have been asking Goddess for a breakthrough. Well, I got it!
Now, if only I can stick with it. :)

Hope your talk/presentation goes well!
Raymonde

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Re: My 3 Selves

Raymonde,
I appreciate your openness and willing to share. Healing is the primary goal in interpreting dreams and you know better than anyone letting it out is therapeutic. Continuing to observe and interpret your dreams can help to stay a steady course and let you know where you are in your journey. I had a recent experience that demonstrates the importance of interpreting our dreams throughout life. Here is that experience.

Since moving to Florida from Tennessee I have remembered more of my dreams without any great intent. I know the process in how to remember dreams but have not instituted any practice to do so. But I do I believe dreams take on a greater energy in those times when it is imperative to remember them. This dream is a great example of those energies. And as is all dreams it had to do with my journey and the emotional energies related to it and my life.

My most recent concern may seem insignificant on the surface but in reality it has to do with the reasons I moved. That reason is to live my life to its fullest and at the same time share what I have learned about dreams. When I first arrived my energies were strictly on the sharing, taking great pains to set up dream classes, and neglecting the other {my websites which we have discussed and being retired and not having to do anything I don't wish to do}. Then fate intervened {from an experience of an odd kind that came from out of the blue} and I realized I was again overloading myself and creating an imbalance. I had a dream My Dream: Cutting the Grass that confirmed the events and clarified what my original intent and desire was. The unusual aspect of remembering the dream 30 minutes after I had awoke and not immediately after waking said to me, "this is something the dream wants you to remember and interpret because it is important". Of course the dream fit with my life, recent events as well as deeper aspects, but the fact it come up as it did convinced me it did so because it was so important for me to interpret it. I was able to do so {although I magnified the interpretation after I looked at it several times over} without difficulty and understand the message of what I was doing in my waking life. I was overloading one important aspect while neglecting another {actually two others}. Because of the dream and the 'fateful' incident I have altered my course and will spend more time on my websites {where I can reach many more souls} as well spend more time 'being retired'. This event once again demonstrated for me the power and importance of our dreams.

I am interested about how your future dreams play out. Having undergone an important realization and being a person who understands the power of dreams, I see future dreams being even more helpful. It is wonderful to be able to work with someone who has the knowledge and experience with Jungian psyche, and willingness to share, because it makes it easier to learn from your dreams. I look forward to future dream posts.


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