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trapped woman/ fighting men

Dream

I learn that there is a woman being held prisoner / who is trapped

and I am going to rescue her - despite not having any special skills or background (like the Marines or the like)
the woman is on a boat, a yacht; and the man is currently away.

Part of the problem is how to get to the boat, and first part of the dream proper that I remember is a small young asian woman somehow swinging on a rope (like Tarzan might) and getting to the mast of the boat.
Next I am inside, and it is much more cramped than I had thought - I remember thinking that I was totally unprepared.
yes, small and not much room to move

then the man (?husband) is heard and I have to hide - but where? the woman and I had not discussed this, and I scrambled through a small door into a room only just big enough. What could I do from here? attack him?

Next myself and another man are somehow captive of the man holding the woman captive. He has us both in a room, that it turns out he has specially prepared. We are going to fight, and he gives us swords. As we are fighting, things happen (eg: things come out of the wall) that make our task of fighting him all the more difficult. They are like obstacles / hinderances he has designed to 'enhance' our suffering.
I realise he could kill us if he wants, yet that may not be now - he might let us live for a while.
With his sword, he cuts off the hair on one side of my head, and I allow him to cut the hair off the other side - him saying they can make it look good when they prepare your body.

We are not killed then,

Next I am on a very public bus, somewhere like the Philippines; I have no idea where I am, yet I realise that if I keep going in this direction, I'l end up far away from where I started. I get off the bus, amongst all the havoc - all I have to do is find a bus heading in the opposite direction: easier said than done. I am trying to keep my bearings (orientation), as there are a lot of buses and roads that look like the same direction, but they are not: eventually I think I have found the correct road, with the traffic heading in the correct direction, and I wake up.

** I'd been listening to some Jungian material before I want to sleep, it was about the vampire archetype
** recent Junigan listenings, Marion Woodman, and Pinkola Estes have reactivated my dreams , , ,,

any insights appreciated
Justin

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 54, Darwin Australia

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Re: trapped woman/ fighting men

Justin,
Your inner feminine is 'trapped' and it needs rescuing. There may be an unconscious problem confronting some aspect about the feminine and consciously a problem connecting {rope} with the feminine in your waking life. The ability to access these vital feminine aspects is 'foreign' to your abilities. You have found yourself in a restricted situation.

Masculine aspects {abilities} are hidden, unavailable. Because of your 'restricted' situation you condemn yourself.

There is inner conflict over this 'situation'. The more you resist the unconscious aspects the more restrictive/conflictive it becomes. You need to embrace the inner conflict to resolve the outer. You have 'cut' away the unconscious influences to make the conscious self acceptable. The inner aspects lives on and the outer suffers. This affects your whole being.

Are you attracted to Asian women? Or very petite women? Is there an 'orientation' to either or both.

The last part of the dream seems to be summarizing your total situation as described above. I see that as unconscious influences controlling your outer life. You fascination with the 'Ladies' probably stems from early life experiences/influences. What those are exactly would take a deeper examination. One thing seems for sure is the masculine aspects are unable to function as they should due to the inner conflicts. Has Marion woodman's books/audio books helped in discovering these inner conflicts?



Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: trapped woman/ fighting men

hi Jerry

you have certainly hit the nail on the head in many aspects
yes I am married to an Asian women, and like Asian women (I have wondered about this for many years).
Having said that, I have been Asia orientated for most of my life, since childhood I would doodle the ying-yang symbol on my schoolbooks before I knew what it meant. This added more potency to Jung's theory of our unconscious manifestation of symbols (although surely I had seen it somewhere, and 'liked' it).

There is certainly conflict, inner conflict that is affectig my outer life. It is a real issue, and I can see, yet I cannot access (rescue ? ) the solution,,, and I know I am 'forcing' myself to continue in my current life, perhaps until I sort this out, or perhaps because I feel the constraints of supporting a family and feel no longer able to just up and leave / change direction (something my father castigated me for ie: ''you never stick at anything', , , mind you I was a child, and it would now seem ok for a child to experiment, sample different things. (link to ''my fascination with the Ladies' as you write ?)
The other practical issue is finding the time and (mental) space to do this work in the midst of lifes other responsibiities,,,, I've been wondering about some time off, or moving to part-time , , , worried bc I know that I am constaining the inner, to make the outer acceptable, , ,

I live in a small town and there is no Jungian therapist here, and I feel hampered by that, and have been looking to where / how I can access someone.

Marion Woodman - yes, listened to some again last night (Crown of Age); just a small chunk , , , absorbing

many thanks
Justin

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 54, Darwin Australia

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Re: trapped woman/ fighting men

a further unravelling of one of this dream's messages:
yes the femininine may be imprisoned,
and the attempts of my inner masculing to rescue her' are thwarted by another masculine presence, ,

this entity seems to be the one blocking things, a complex of somekind , ,, but what

could it be related to the frustration and deeply hidden anger at not having a guiding father as a child?

So although yes I may need to connect to my feminine, the impeding agent is a masculine complex - this could explain my real issue dealing with men, older men in general, and overall lack of trust in power systems

One of the many things I got our of Marion Woodman' dvd was that it took her months of solid work to connnect to the energy system underlying her uterine cancer, , , ,
how do I connect wth this combative force within, , ,,
J

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 54, Darwin Australia

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Re: trapped woman/ fighting men

Justin,
You connect with it by continuing to monitor your dreams as well as self analyzing your life. Much of who and what we become in adulthood is related to early life experiences and influences. Issues dealing with older men, where could that come from. Tracing the origins of emotional conflicts and complexes is the best way I know of in determining their origins. In my journey I looked back at my early childhood which was fatherless and caused me to be introverted {whereas I have a natural extroverted personality}, followed that path to early adulthood and three failed marriages and was able to see the connections. Although I was nothing like my father when it came to responsibilities to family I was just like him in many other ways. The most obvious was to run away from relationships. That was unconsciously driven by the need to fill the void from never receiving the proper love and acceptance from my father as a child. When I got to a point in my relationships where I felt alone I sought out new ways to fill the void. sex and libido was a driving force no doubt but the underlying cause was a need to fill the void. I did that by involving myself with new relationships. Just like my father I went from one relationship to another not knowing the unconscious influences. The two things he involved himself with were the same two things I also did. Fortunately, and unlike my father, I was not the SOB who never ever cared about his children and responsibilities to them. He died the same way he lived, never caring and really never having had fulfillment in his life. I dare say if I could trace his origins his childhood would be a big factor in the way he lived his life.

What changed me was discovering Jung and his Individuation Process. That day I just happened to see Joseph Campbell in The Power of Myth {1992} I knew something inside me had connected. Unconsciously I had connected but for the first time I consciously knew there was something on the inside that was having an affect on the outside. I followed Campbell to Jung and over a period of many years was able to resolve my 'father' issues. And along the way discovered my intuitive ability to understand/interpret dreams {using Jung once again} and my creative being in designing websites. It was a 180 degree turn around from what and who I had been to who and what I was really meant to be. Once I realized these things I was free to follow the 'hero' path. As Campbell states we all are heroes in our own journey to wholeness.

“Furthermore, we have not even to risk the adventure alone; for the heroes of all time have one before us, the labyrinth is fully known; we have only to follow the thread of the hero-path. And where we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god; where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves; where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence; where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world.”
― Joseph Campbell, The Hero with a Thousand Faces

The above quote sounds great and illuminating but one can not truly appreciate its meaning until they experience it for oneself. Having 'been there and done that' I know what he states is true. It has been my life path for many years and it has worked time and time again, without fail. But it only works if you stay the path and realize it is you who is doing what needs to be done in discovering and achieving your bliss. Once you discover this there is no turning back. My thoughts are once the seed is planted Karma {cause and effect} take hold and your life is ruled thusly. The laws of nature have its mechanisms that govern all life, all things. Trust in that and I believe there is always the helping hands of fate awaiting to help push open those doors when needed.

Joseph Campbell
“We're in a freefall into future. We don't know where we're going. Things are changing so fast, and always when you're going through a long tunnel, anxiety comes along. And all you have to do to transform your hell into a paradise is to turn your fall into a voluntary act. It's a very interesting shift of perspective and that's all it is... joyful participation in the sorrows and everything changes.”
― Joseph Campbell, Sukhavati

A question. Could your problem with dealing with older men have an influence on your life as you become that 'older man'? Unconscious influences are paramount to adult life and when the dots are connected there is an illumination like no other force in life.


Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: trapped woman/ fighting men

hi Jerry,

once again many thanks,, you have got me going


this dream has highlighted for me the rrole of the masculine in my current statee (well actually it has been playing out over my lifetime). I had thought things were mainly related to the feminine,, aand I'd been needing to 'get stronger''.
So it is now a shock to realise that these issues relating to my father are so profound; yet iit is so, and explains a lot, a lot.

Clarissa Pinkola Estes, aJungian lady mentioned that the looking for love was actually ddue to confusing ''love'with guidance - it struck me like a flash - tthe profound lack of guidance from mmy father;; so I turned to my mother for tha, yet a boy needs masculine guidance. Anyway that was a significant insight for me..

Another iis your rremidner that this is midlife stuff:: bbig stuff ::: and that it is affecting me profoundly at present. It has and is profoundly affecting my interactions with all authority ffigures (the big institution within which I work)).. and gives me some understanding of why I have had/ have such problems dealing with aauthority figures. IIt would be hard to overstate the depth of its influence oon my life.


And now I am 'becoming '' one of those older men,,,, a fatther, , , no wonder I am in such inner turmoil

A lot of work to do here Jerry
(keypad playing up))uugh

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 54, Darwin Australia

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Re: trapped woman/ fighting men

Justin,
I feel your pain. Like you I did not have that 'guidance' from my father in my formative years {or any year}. It 'prompted' me in later to look for those important aspects that are normally supplied by the father figure by elsewhere. It resulted in three failed marriages, all of which could have been saved had I known of the unconscious influences. There is an argument that such early life experiences/influences has little to do with life making decisions. I know that is wrong and you and I and many others whom I have 'counseled' at the Dream Forum are proof of it. Once upon a time it was believed that an infant's/toddler's mind could not process information well. But now we know that is not true either and a child takes in stimuli around it and processes it as material for unconscious motivations. A battered toddler may not remember the actual experiences but it is possible for the unconscious to produce reactions later on in life related to those trauma experiences. For a young boy whose world is filled with requirements to fulfill hid masculine identity, a world without a father is life ocean without fish. It is devoid of those little things that give it life and purpose.

Then mid-life comes along and the biological father that was never there returns in the form of the archetypal father {Marion Woodman's 'The Crown of Age' wonderfully addresses the archetypal mother/father}. One can not properly function without the other. The archetypal father, those innate, predispositions we are born with that provide us with natural instincts relevant to the father/son relationship, seeks completion in a relationship with the biological father. If that is lacking, as in yours and my life without a father, the unconscious looks to the archetypal masculine. The results may play out differently depending on the individual but it can be {and often is} a controlling agent in the person's life. One result could be a weak masculine. And a problem with authority figures which most often will be male. The authority figure we are actually rebelling against is the unfulfilled masculine within ourselves.

Looking back at this dream we see there is a need to rescue the feminine. That would be a call for a strong masculine self. But you do not have those skills. Boats are vehicles of transition and here the weak masculine has been 'transferred' into a feminine identity {for me that identity was looking for that unmet fatherly love in relationships with women}. Later in the dream 'the man (husband?) is heard and I have to hide'. The husband is the father and those natural aspects are hidden from you because you do not have the experiences of a father/son relationship. So what do you do? You attack him. That is played out by your rebellion against authority/masculine figures. Where else is it played out if any? A lack of the biological father can result in the person lacking the skills as a father to his son/children.

So what do you do to replace that lack of masculinity in early life? Your turn to the mother. In the dream the feminine is held captive. But actually both aspects are being held captive {He has us both in a room}. A weak masculine and a substitute feminine which lacks the required skills {natural} of the masculine. The fight is the internal emotional conflict. Earlier life barriers {walls} come out {at midlife}. Those barriers, the lack of the biological father figure, enhance the suffering throughout life. The suffering lives on, until the underlying causes are realized. The psyche, in its natural therapeutic function, tries to bring balance by 'cutting' away both elements that provide emotional nourishment {or should do so}. The logical as well as the emotional {the two sides of the brain} , trying to make sense of it all {at midlife}.
{There are probably other applications to the symbols but these come to mind when reading the dream a second time}.

Defining the problem is how healing begins. Dreams are attempting to do that. But there has to be a 'connection' to the conscious mind of the unconscious contents {in the dreams}. You seem to have made that connection. The task now is to reconcile the conflicts. By looking back at your life and seeing where the weak masculine had such a profound affect on your actions, that is how I came to my healing. I identified the controlling aspects and gave them life in the moment {revisited the experiences as if they were happening now}. Once I did that {many times over} I was no longer held captive to the unconscious stimuli. I could see clearly why I was who I was throughout my early adult life.

Note: This 'in the moment' application is how art therapy, visual therapy, etc. helps to resolve these issues. They bring them to life in the moment, a visual realization of the unconscious contents that are in conflict.

So you now have realized how strong an influence the lack of a father figure was on your life. Go back and revisit that 'child' you were, those moments that have been captured in a 'freeze' frame in your mind. See how strong that child was even though he was suffering. That 'natural' resilience in childhood needs to be rekindled at the age of 54. That child did nothing wrong. And now that you are 54 you need to realize that so you can reconcile those experiences where you may not have been the person you should have been. That in itself is life changing.
What Joseph Campbell often said about following your bliss applies here. You get two chances in life. Now is the time to take that second chance and make good use of it.


Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: trapped woman/ fighting men

hi Jerry,

thanks for such a clear reply, it has given me a lot to think about, and there are many threads to follow

One that really strikes me is that in the absence of the physical father, an archetypal father appears in midlife.
The dream that started all this off for me (after I had left a job and headed off into the unknown - 2003); a dream that 'touched' me so profoundly it was the first dream I wrote down - upon reflection - it was the archetypal father, set in very ancient times, a leader (I was not following him, I had my own theories and my own followers, , , he came up to me, picked me up, enveloped me and put his forehead on my head and I felt an incredible warm rush go through my whole body::: yes lots of symbolism ,,,,) This dream really fired my way.

More recently there was a dream where I turned around and saw / felt / said 'my dear old man, my dear old man' - it was as though I had seen behind myself. And it was not my father, ,,

Just last night I had a man offering (he and his wife Sophia (!) to support my work overseas.

So the masculine, and in particular the archetypal masculine is trying to get my attention / break through.


Further - in relation to your reply - I can now understand the 'mother substitute' for a 'deficient' father (especially if her opinion of him as a father is low, and she undermines him both to the son and her husband).
I had many of these dots but unable to connect them.
It further (I think) further explains why I had always chosen women who had father issues (usually alcoholic fathers) = unconsciously I understood their pain, unconsciously I could pretend that I could ease their pain , , , you get the picture.

So I have gone from years of trying to unravel my mother issues to father issues , , ,, I think it is just as Alexander Lowen said , , ,it is unconscious anger at the father , ,, wow that is a tough one

many thanks,
Justin

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