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Struggle with sorceress

I had a very strange dream some time ago. I was in a large house, definitely not my own, where there was a sorceress who was looking for a pill that would give her some extraordinary powers. My 'job' or mission was to prevent her from obtaining that pill, and I’d already defeated two of her subordinates (who were also female) and obtained the pill myself when the dream began.

When the dream started, with the pre-existing history I've described, I was hiding in an alcove that was abnormally high from the ground, and I had the impression that a battle with one of her minions (a victory for me) had taken place at that great height. I was trying to hide from the sorceress but she knew where I was and eventually, as she moved on the floor level and I tried to adopt different positions to hide, she saw me directly.

Now I’m on a couch on the floor, as if she summoned me there, and she’s walking around in front of me. But her attention is not directly on me, so I decide to hide the pill in the couch cushions, and then do so. The pill has a scratch on that I think was placed there in one of my earlier struggles for it. I realize immediately that she’ll find the pill in the cushions, or anywhere on my person, and that my only option is to swallow the pill myself, so I do that.

The sorceress knows immediately that I’ve done so, and walks up to face me, now giving me her full attention. She is gesturing with her hands in a way that suggests magic, and I feel the pill starting to come up. “I think I can do something for you” I say to her, even though she is the one doing it. Then I regurgitate the pill, which is completely unchanged by having been inside me; even the scratch I mentioned earlier is still intact. She takes it in her hand (her finger and thumb actually) and swallows it at once without removing any of my saliva from it.

Now I’m released from her spell (the one that summoned me and caused me to regurgitate the pill), and it seems that I am no longer important to her on any level. But I have the strong sense of an impending explosion or some other imminent cataclysm, and an urgent need to leave her house, which I’m free to do.

So I run down the steps at her front door, carrying a very small red car “around my body” with my arms around the outside of the car's body, and I recall that I'd left it inside her house when I came to do battle with her minions. The steps are red brick, and lead out the door and to the right, where her driveway is located.

Reaching the driveway I begin to drive, but soon the car is gone and I’m riding a bicycle instead, going home but for some reason wearing no shoes. But there is something like a basket on the front of the bike, and my shoes are stacked together on the left side of the basket.

I can hear the sorceress calling my wife on the telephone, even from that great distance (and she remained in the house while I fled). She is telling her that everything is ok, and that I’ll be home shortly. But I feel a sense of urgency as though some danger were imminent. The feeling tone was similar to what I feel sometimes when the autumn winds blow strong.

I don't know what to make of this one and I'd appreciate any insights. And I should probably add that I haven't been involved with any females outside of my marriage, that I seem to be fairly sensitive to what some have called the 'Sacred Feminine,' (I've been told so female friends in the past), so I don't know what this tension is really about.

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Anon,
First let me say Nashville is my home town. Born and raised in the Middle Tenn. area. Last lived in Murfreesboro and moved from there to Palm Bay, Fl. last Oct after taking early retirement. I've been doing dream analysis {and web design} since 1998. Other than working for my son in his fence construction business {I started the business in Middle Tn 35 yrs ago} a couple of Saturdays a month, working with dreams and my web sites is pretty much all I do.

About your dream.
Since I do have to work Saturday for my son it may be Sunday before I can give a full analysis of your dream. But a cursory look at the dream indicates a very strong inner if not outer conflict with 'assertive' feminine aspects {your anima}. Because of the strong opposition to this feminine aspect, especially in the beginning of the dream, it may be you have developed a complex. Jung's concept of a complex is a core pattern of emotions, memories, perceptions, and wishes center in the 'personal unconscious', organized around a common emotional theme. What we need to do is figure who and/or what this strong sorceress represents.

The first question addressing such a strong 'outer/conscious' feminine 'sorceress' would be 'what is/was the relationship with your mother like?' The 'pre-history' comment may have been a sort of unconscious 'freudian' slip where the pre-history would represent something early own, before the present conscious history of you current waking life. The primary candidate in such instances would be the 'mother'. But it could be some other female, if in fact it has to do with outer sources at all. There may be an issue involving an conscious relationship but it may be the 'minor issue', a secondary issue in the dream. The primary issue may be the 'inner sorceress'.

Because dreams always address at least two 'psyche' aspects to every dream {outer/inner-conscious/unconscious}, the outer feminine may have to do with your mother, or some other female with strength to cast a spell over you, the anima complex. But there would be an inner issue also, your inner feminine 'complex' having to do as much about 'collective unconscious' aspects, along with any possible personal unconscious/outer issues. This 'collective' aspect could have to do with the 'Sacred Feminine' you mentioned in your comments. If there are collective aspects we may be able to look to mythology to determine any 'patterns' you have developed to do with the Scared Feminine. There does seem to be a strong resistance to both inner and outer feminine aspects. There may be something about the 'Scared Feminine' that goes against what you normally believe in, which may be associated with spiritual/religious aspects.

Ponder this and I will take a good look at the dream this weekend. If you will provide more info about the Scared Feminine you spoke of that may help. Of course info about the relationship with your mother. Knowledge of the Scared Feminine, a spiritual concept {one I tend to gravitate to}, would usually indicate contact with the subject.

Jerry

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Anon,
I will await a response before giving a final assessment of your dream. But there does seem to be a 'feminine' force that has a great influence on your unconscious if not conscious psyche {sorceress}. So much so you have developed a complex over it. Again I ask about the relationship with your mother. i've broken the dream down and there is definitely a powerful feminine force/source that has control and/or is seeking control over you. If it is not your mother it is some other powerful 'feminine' source/force in your life. Something you can't escape from unconsciously no matter how hard you wish to/need to consciously. This is an unconscious force {complex?} that is controlling or seeks to control your conscious life. What I can't determine is what this powerful feminine force is. It could be a particular person or a particular emotion, or both. I'll need feedback to better determine which it is.

Jerry

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Jerry,

Thanks so much for your thoughts about my dream; I think your insights have helped me to get to the bottom of it. I'm travelling today and have limited time and internet access, but I'll post a detailed reply in a couple of days that I think you may find interesting. It concerns an intense waking vision I had some years ago, which btw I understand Jung to have said (In Job and elsewhere, but I couldn't give you chapter and verse off the top of my head) is not (necessarily!) pathological.

Please rest assured, this dream is several years old now, and I'm not under the influence of a complex that's going to ruin my life or the lives of others. Of course it still may be a complex, but more on that later. In the meantime, I hope you'll have a great remainder of the weekend!

Best Regards,
Anon

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Anon,
I appreciate your response and will be interested in your story. This sorceress seems to have strong presence in your life and it will interesting to know who/what she is and/or represents. Have a safe trip.

Jerry

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Hi Jerry,

It's been a busy couple of days, but I definitely want to follow up on this. And I've always wanted to know someone's thoughts about the waking vision I'm about to describe too (it may require several posts - I'm not sure what the maximum length of a post is here).

But after reading your thoughts, the possibility occurred to me that the three women in the dream were three who with whom I'd been close at one time, each of whom had hurt me quite severely when the friendships ended. The circumstances may not be important, but I've described this process (with tongue slightly in cheek) as 'cauterizing a friendship,' i.e. throwing flame on an ex-friend's heart so that he won't be inclined to try to repair the relationship. It strikes me as a repression mechanism on the part of the party who's ending things, i.e. as pushing the image of the ex-friend out of the conscious psyche... and I imagine something like this has happened to most of us, so moving on...

What I do think is important is that I was involved with first two women in the dream on a romantic level. I met 'the sorceress' after I was married, and there was never the slightest romantic element in our friendship, although I was tempted a few times, and the woman, whom I'll call Ann, said the same.

Ok I'm going to post the vision now, with apologies if it takes several posts.

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

The vision:

Ann was physically beautiful, but she was far more gifted than she was beautiful. With a Doctor's degree in Psychology, she also had credentials as a musician and an actress. A scholar and athlete, she was a fearless person, and I was inspired by just about everything about her.

We worked together, Ann was the HR director, and we were required by management to have sessions that would help her to implement the company’s recruiting plan. I was an IT generalist, new to the company (actually, we were both new there), and called on to assist Ann by generating technical questions and helping her to understand them on a deeper level. We began to be friends, and we decided to have these sessions over weekly lunch meetings.

One day I'd taken her to lunch just to cheer her up, i.e. we were not having a technical session that day – as she was having a difficult time in life. She was going thru a divorce, stress with her children, and battles with management at work (over recruiting, as it turned out).

Even though I’d hoped to cheer her up, everything I said seemed to make her feel worse, and seemed just to remind her of another problem in her life.
When I could think of nothing else, I spoke my heart to her, saying "Ann, I’m sorry you’re having such a difficult time, but I do want you to know that you are an inspiration to me, I’m grateful to know you, and I want to aspire to live a better life because of your example."

She was as tough as nails, but now she was crying quietly as she thanked me. And I, who hadn't cried for the six years since my son died during childbirth, was crying too.

Yet here we were, at a Shoney's salad bar (I’ll never get over wishing it had happened at a nicer place!), weeping silently as we looked into each other’s' eyes. I was embarrassed by the incongruity of the situation. And that’s when the vision came.

I saw my friend's heart, what seemed to be her very core. And although it was dark, it was not dark in an evil sense; rather, it was somehow just quiet, as if dormant or asleep. As soon as I saw it, the thinnest of lines was drawn from my heart to hers; how that happened, I don't know. But that silent connection was the beginning of some astonishing experiences.

Then I was bathed in light - from within. I’d never experienced anything even remotely like it. At the time, it seemed that Ann’s heart was the source of the light that filled me, although later it seemed that both of us may have been filled from a common source. The light was the color of sunshine (somehow the color seems important to me, i.e. that it wasn’t pure white), and it overwhelmed me like nothing I'd ever known.

I was drowning in light, and had to look away from my own heart because I was afraid of losing control of myself in a public place. This was the most emotionally powerful moment in my life to that point – but only for a moment!


The next thing I know is that I seemed to have died by drowning in the light that was also somehow fluid, and as a result, I’d somehow been elevated beyond space or time. My mind had become ‘disembodied’ by the process of dying, and from my new vantage point, I could see the entire universe - past, present, and future, spread out before me. It looked something like a beautiful city when viewed from the air at night, or a brilliant jewel on black velvet. In this new perspective, time somehow constituted one axis and spatial extent another. And its beauty was terrible, unbounded, and breathtaking.

Then my perspective moved in for a closer look at the 'manifest universe,' (in some sense it's as if I'm focusing on Ann) and as I pause over the boundary that separates all that ever will be from the cold edge of nothingness, I am completely undone. At this point, looking into Ann’s eyes, there were tears in my eyes I couldn't stop, and I had to turn away from my heart again. This moment had so much more intensity than the moment above, when I was bathed in sunlight, that I can’t really compare them. It was life and death, male and female, being and non-being, and so much more than I could ever put into words.

OK, it shook her too. Before we left the restaurant, she went into the ladies' room for ten minutes (we were less than five minutes from our office building – and don't forget that she was an athlete). I told her I needed to talk about it, but she was "busy" for a couple of weeks before she'd let me tell her about the vision.

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

The old fool’s thoughts about his vision:

I'd never been so unsettled in my life, Jerry. I'd never had a waking vision before, and haven't had one since. And I knew all about anima projection, or thought I did. And I think it’s clear that this vision, until and including the moment when I was bathed in light, is certainly consistent with anima projection!

However, after I ‘died’ and became disembodied – well, let me get to that.

I know that Campbell often said (in Hero With a Thousand Faces, for example) that the path to "enlightenment" involves crossing through the veil that is comprised of the polar opposites (Jason and the Symplegades is one mythological example that comes to mind).

Crossing through this veil requires the death of one's ego and leads to a second birth. I realize I'm not only paraphrasing here, but also expressing my own limited understanding of Campbell's thoughts. But I’d go a little further: Every life is a hero’s journey (=ego) that ends in the death of the hero (ego death). But out of that ego-death, there can arise an authentic human being. Would you buy that formulation?

In any event, even today I see light and dark, self and other, time and eternity, and even being and nothingness, as some of the pairs of opposites expressed in this vision (I also recall reading that the Buddha said, about Nirvana: "It both exists and does not exist; neither exists nor does not." This certainly fits in well with my understanding of quantum mechanics (my undergrad is in Physics), by which theory all matter is comprised of particles that are blinking into and out of existence all the time.)

And I really did seem to die in the vision; only then did I "move" beyond space and time, and the other pairs of opposites. So I'm not sure the second part of the vision can be explained as mere anima projection. It seemed to me, and still does, to be an enlightenment experience of great validity (and I've been wrong before).

Jung talks at some length in a paper about the relationship between art and analytical psychology, about how some critics tend to reduce works of art by focusing on the infantile heritage of humanity, whereas he favored a more teleological approach. If I understood him correctly in that paper, he found it more fruitful to focus on where the symbols in a work of art pointed in the direction of the future rather than the past. He said something along the lines of how everyone has an infantile component, and how some critics tend to reduce art to the infantile components they can find in an artist’s life.

I'd rather look at this experience as a forward-tending moment, but if you think it's primarily infantile (I believe infantile tendencies are present in every person so they certainly exist in me, even in my most transcendental moments) then I want to re-evaluate it.

I think it’s important to note that this happened early in my discovery of Jung, Campbell, and Eastern ways of thought. And after this moment Ann and I began to be truly close friends, and I began to have insights that Ann said she didn’t get from any of her other friends, that she said many times she was grateful to share (this is the white magic pill in the dream, I believe - the magic that happens when people care deeply about each other). She also said many times that she was grateful for our friendship too.

In any event, until she ended our friendship (painfully) at the point of her re-marriage, I had some of the most amazing experiences, which I think can arise only in the lives of people who are truly searching for enlightenment.

Ok I’ve gone on for too long. And I'm sorry if I'm taking too much of your time from other dreams!

One more thing: whatever you have to say about all this, I promise I can take it!
:-)

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Hey, one more thing: Ann was living in Murfreesboro during the time when all this occurred! I wonder if you knew her...

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Hello again,

After being concerned that I'd said too much in earlier posts, I started to wonder if I'd actually said too little. Maybe if I tied this all back to the dream I posted it would make more sense. So here goes!

Ann was a big part of my discovery of the unconscious - no, the experience of it - and all the insight, enlightenment, bliss etc. that comes with it (usually after being crushed first by one's shadow), along with the writing that was always a dream of mine, poetic fiction that conveys psychological truths (if I could 'just' write like Kahlil Gibran...) was a process in which she played an important role. She was one of my dearest friends for a long time.

So she was there when the 'magic' started, and was a big part of my psychic development, as we explored the deep things of psyche together, and found out a lot about ourselves along the way.

But when she was about to marry, she decided to say and do some very hurtful things. I'd never seen that side of her, was completely astonished when I did, and for a long time the magic went away (as when, in the dream, she was able to cause me to regurgitate the magic pill) - and the writing did too. Only recently have those things really started to come back in my life. At the time, I felt that I should be able to get on with my bodhisattva journey without interruption, but I guess healing takes time. It did with me, anyway.

Some years after our lives broke apart, I contacted Ann to see if I could try to understand what happened, just to put a slightly more graceful ending to things, but she declined to speak with me.

It was a very strange ending to a friendship I cherished - but I'm old enough to realize that if one person feels that two should part, that person is right. But this painful experience is what I think my dream was about, and I hope this post adds some meaning to the previous ones.

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Anon,
I appreciate your willingness to share your story. A lot to go over. I'll give a response either later today or in the morning. As for Ann, I didn't know her in my days in Murfreesboro. But with her interest in psychology and the arts we would have had some great conversations. The same holds true with you. Anyone who has an interest in Campbell and/or Jung is someone I would want to meet. Didn't find a lot of those types in Middle Tn. most people are focused on the outer world of ego they have no clue to the true nature of their being. It is a psychological journey first and foremost this thing we call life. As you can see at the top of this page the way i look at life and try to live it is, Think PSYCHOLOGICALLY Live SPIRITUALLY.

Jerry

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Hi Jerry,

I want to thank you sincerely for taking the time to go through all the material I posted!

And that's very well put - thinking psychologically and living spiritually - I like that expression very well. I hope you won't mind if I use it? :-)

I haven't found very many in middle TN who are interested in the depths of the psyche either - especially in IT (my profession), where everything seems to be a 0 or a 1, and there's not a lot of talk about nuances.

So it would have been great to hook up with you when you still lived here; I have so many questions, but I'm still committed to learning more and living it.

In any event I hope you're enjoying Palm Bay and the Atlantic Coast! It sounds like you're living a dream of an early retirement - I just hope that storms don't come in too frequently there. :-)

Best,
Anon

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Anon,
I am going to break my response into two or more posts since it will be long and detailed.

First, to answer your question about hero's journey. The motif you speak of is what Jesus experienced in his death on the cross and his resurrection {in a cave}. Both are related psychological symbols and the experience is what needs to happen to the individual to find wholeness in life. The cross is a symbol for psychological balance {among other things} and the resurrection is from an ego centered life to a spiritual one. The fact his resurrection occurred in a cave {his burial tomb} is reflective of the psychological death and resurrection experience that the whole ordeal is {the cave symbolic of the deep unconscious}. In other words the whole experience is psychological and not physical {as depicted in the bible in the story of Jesus}. The hero journey is experiencing this death and resurrection and the psychological transformation that must be undertaken to achieve it. What happens is a self search of ones whole life to determine the emotional conflicts that prevent the individual from realizing wholeness.

There are two aspects that determine what path we 'unnaturally' choose in life. Because we all are born with a set of blue prints {Jung's archetypes}, we must come to realize these innate patterns and what emotional forces that keep us from realizing there immense unconscious energies. Just as the turtle knows upon hatching from its egg to go straight to the ocean, we too have internal programming to lead us through life. Most never know about this and thus never understand the immense energies they possess over our conscious lives.

The second aspect has to do with emotional nourishment. When we are born we are programmed to expect emotional as well as physical nourishment. If the mother rejects the child there is psychological harm. The same goes for the father. We have two mothers and fathers, one the psychological parents we are programmed for and the second the physical parents whose task is to fulfill what is expected internally. When there is lack of proper parenting, a lack of emotional nourishment, not only is the physical world thrown out of whack, the 'archetypal' world is also. Psychologically we are damaged. We supplement what was not provided in our earliest years with drugs, food, sex and all other types of negative behavior in our adult lives. Look at the world around us and we see it everywhere.

The hero journey is to reconcile the psychological wounds and find a balance so the 'archetypal' energies can work as nature intended. The ego personality is formed from experiences and influences and this is usually counter to what the archetypal 'Self' expects. The hero undertakes a journey to destroy the ego influence and replace it with a life where the proper archetypal energies can work properly. We are spiritual beings, intended by nature and those overriding natural forces are what we must strive for. The ego is fixated on what the outer body desires whereas the inner self, the true self we see in our dreams, seeks fulfillment in the spiritual realm {nature and Karma}. What is your emotional patterns? Discovering what those are and reconciling what is out of balance is the hero deed. The demons and dragons are psychological and stem from early life experiences as well as unmet archetypal expectations.

The hero journey is what the myths are about, the collective stories of individual experiences. Our individual journey will have associations to one or more myths since the patterns we demonstrate in our lives have already been experienced time and again throughout the ages. Campbell's Monomyth is the general patterns of the hero journey {often repeated in the different stages}. A famous quote from Campbell that sums it up.

"Furthermore, we have not even to risk the adventure alone, for the heroes of all time have gone before us. The labyrinth is thoroughly known. We have only to follow the thread of the hero path, and where we we had thought to find an abomination, we shall find a god. And where we had thought to slay another, we shall slay ourselves. Where we had thought to travel outward, we shall come to the center of our own existence. And where we had thought to be alone, we shall be with all the world".

This quote is about the established patterns of human behavior. It was a young Carl Jung at Burgholzli Psychiatric Hospital in Switzerland who realized the associations of myth to psychological complexes and disorders and took it to a investigative level that we now know as doctrine. The archetypal images Jung recognized in myth he also saw in dreams. Campbell articulates these associations in a way that can be understood {Jung is very deep and often hard to take in}. Once there is an understanding of the archetypes and the associations of myth to the human psyche, you pretty much have a good grasp of the energies that control human life. By decoding the dream there is a direct connection to unconscious. Although most dreams are not 'archetypal' {have direct associations to mythological imagery} the themes/patterns persist. The journey in life is recorded and played back but as with any movie film what is taking place is the true adventure and not what is perceived by the ego personality {which is tainted with personal bias}. When to analyze the dream you are performing an inspection of ones true self and whatever is not in balanced {emotionally} will be the main feature in our dreams. some nights it has more to do with the conflicts from life the day before. other times the primary focus is the underlying causation for the personality and emotional conflicts. But the dream is always trying to communicate what is out of balance so the conscious self can take action to put it in balance. Balance and wholeness is the intent.

Jerry

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Anon,
I am going to briefly comment on this post and provide a more detailed response this weekend {probably Sunday}. I am scheduled to give 4 workshops at the Earthdance Festival in Lakeland, Fl. next week and I must put together my presentation. Because I plan to use charts and printed materials I need to put some real effort into that between now and then. Also on Saturday I am scheduled to work all day for my son in Orlando {the contracting business I began 35 years ago is now his}. I do this several Saturdays a month. So please bare with me.

My first impression of your vision, and I want to look at this more thoroughly before I give a final assessment, is there was a connection to Ann's psyche that probably had to do with your inner feminine. Her core has a lot to do with your core. With what you have told me about her she is very learned in creative fields. Those aspects, important in discovering ones true self, is what may have come through. But from what you describe she may not have discovered the 'secrets' of Jungian psyche. That too may be a part of the 'soul' attraction, you being on your search. It could be she completes you, if you possessed her soul features you would be complete. Yet the lack of total identity of Self by Ann is also reflected in where you are in your journey.
Ponder this possibility and see where it leads.

A response to an earlier post you made about the three women who with whom I'd been close at one time. The dream probably was touching on those associations but because you are on a conscious journey and search, the deeper associations are probably more important. All dreams have at least two applications {often one dealing with recent outer experiences and the second focused on the deeper associations to causation}. I will need to go back and read the dream and the parts about the women to see which would be the primary focus. As you stated, the process is the central theme and understanding that would be valuable in understanding the unconscious processes to do with outer relationships and inner experiences. The women could be themselves as well as aspects of your anima.
Such is the way of the dream.

Jerry

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Hi Jerry,

I hope you're doing well. And yes, especially after I experienced the waking vision and received Ann's surprising - but hoped for - acknowledgement of its validity, Ann became very precious to me.

For a time, she was more precious to me than my own life, and I mean quite literally that I would gladly have died for her sake during that time. At my core, there she was, so your perception that her core and mine were closely linked is absolutely correct. After the vision, I had to keep telling myself that I'd had a universal/collective experience, and that she was a particular, individual person. And that she couldn't possibly be as wonderful as she seemed.

But I wouldn't say that her reflection in my soul was an anima image, although I suspect that might surprise you, because even from the start of our friendship I could see some shadow content in her.

Jung says in 'Man and His Symbols' that a man who is under the spell of an anima projection (I beg your pardon for any inaccuracies; as I mentioned earlier, I'm traveling and don't have my reqular sources with me) tends to think of the object of his projection as similar to a goddess, and is unable to see any flaw or darkness within her. But I could see darkness right away; I just dismissed it as having been related to the extreme difficulties she faced during childhood.

Ann had indeed had a very difficult life, and frequently wanted to share painful experiences with me. For example, I think she was molested by her father, but she never quite said so.

Nevertheless, she seemed to crave the insights that came from our talks about her life's struggles. I would love to tell you some of the amazing things that happened during these conversations, but there is not enough time, and I would be surprised if you didn't have some similar stories too.

In any event, partly because I was on my own bodhisattva journey (and thought she was too), and partly because I simply wanted to believe it, I considered Ann to be one of the most enlightened people I'd ever known, and that she'd achieved everything in spite of enormous difficulties.

Having discovered Jung, Campbell, and Eastern ways of thought before I met Ann, one of the best stages in my life was upon me, and I set myself on the path to enlightenment with more discipline and more joy than I'd ever experienced. I thought I'd found something that could help everyone - and I still do. But after we became friends, my search (a la the Noble Eightfold Path) continued, seemed to find a new and deeper level, and I gave Ann a lot of the credit for my growth during that period.

So... I want to try this on for size, and I'm interested in any impression you may have: my impressions of Ann led more to a transference, perhaps, than a projection. Jung, either in 'Man and His Symbols' or 'Psychogy and Alchemy,' tells about his experiences with a female patient who had conceived a transference involving Jung. One point he made about that case was that the patient knew Jung was neither divine nor her father, but she still felt a deep longing for him for quite some time after she knew intellectually what was happening to her internally.

In my case, even after several encounters with Ann's shadow, sometimes painful ones, I was prepared to attribute any shortcomings that I saw on her part to the difficulties she had to deal with as she grew up - even to my own detriment. So I think my situation is similar to that of Jung's patient.

It took a while for me to realize this, but I think you said it very accurately in your last post: Although she was familiar with Jung, Campbell, and others, she didn't know (in an experiential way) the true depths of the secrets of Jungian psyche.

And it took me almost a year to realize that I wasn't a 'lesser' person, that the insights always came from me and not from her, and that even though her knowledge was greater than mine (she introduced me to Thomas Moore, for example, who has written some wonderful content as well), I seemed to be living the walk in a more dedicated way than she was.

Here's a slight digression: In part I wonder if the inflation I experienced had anything to do with the 'very high' alcove I was in during the dream, and after victories with the first two women, whom I loved, i.e. that I'd achieved some enlightenment in spite of the pain they had dealt me. But I was never better - or higher - than I was right before Ann brought me crashing to the ground.

Ok, my lunch hour is over so I need to get my nose back on a grindstone. Take care and I hope it's all good with you.
:-)

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Anon,
You have a presented a lot to think about and although I love discussing such matters I am in the middle of having to focus on an upcoming event Friday and Saturday {the EarthDance festival in Lakeland, Fl. where I will give 'workshops' on dreams}. So my responses won't be as detailed as usual, at least for this week. So please patient with me and let's do continue the dialog.

The story about Ann is very interesting, and confusing. A highly intelligent woman who should by your accounts 'have it together', her having ascended to a higher level of consciousness with her knowledge of Jungian psychology as well as other higher knowledge associated with what I think of as true 'gnosis'. But there is something definitely lacking gauging by what you state about her pulling away from you as she did and still not wanting to renew the relationship. You bring up several possibilities about her own inner demons that are probably valid. From what you have stated, and this is what is so confusing, is it seems she has not become 'individuated' as one would expect from someone worth her gnosis. Something is very wrong. she has not achieved wholeness despite her journey. Why is that? You mentioned the probability of abuse as a child. Has that not been reconciled and if not why? Any clues?

As for Campbell and his hero journey. Every life is unique and a journey. But the hero/heroine journey is one of 'Individuation'. Campbell's great ability to articulate 'Jungian thought' has been the catalyst for many like myself to not only discover the hero path but also understand the psychology behind it. The journey is psychological and the hero is the one who dares reaches into the depths of their soul to discover what it is that prevents them from being whole. For me the central problem was a lack of a relationship with my father as a child and, like Luke Skywalker and the many mythological stories of the son seeking the father {Campbell spoke of the many Native American myths that had this theme}, spending my energies in early adulthood unconsciously doing that. Of course what happens is we tend to substitute that lost love with other things. For me it was sex. I grew out much of the 'addictions' to sex by the age of 30 but it was not until I discovered Campbell at the age of 42 that I began to understand the unconscious control and motivations. That was my path to true wholeness, my hero journey.
Note: From the age of 30 it was physical fitness that taught me the disciple to stay the path despite the many dragons that I needed to slay over the next 21 years {I'm 63 now}. Besides Jungian dream psyche, physical fitness is the other 'discipline' I preach to anyone who will listen.

There is one aspect about Jungian psyche I don't completely adhere to. Jung tended to believe the psychosis many experience in life comes from the later stages in life. While I can see where he comes from in that belief I strongly believe childhood has so much more to do with who we become later in life. From my own experiences I can see how and why I become the 'half' person I was during my twenties, understanding that underlying foundations were rotted in a lack of fatherly love and acceptance. Plus, so many things my father did I unconsciously imitated {he was a over the road truck driver with who knows how many women along his routes}. And when I analyze dreams I see a lot of unconscious motivations, finding in my interpretations a lot of truths to my assumptions {look at my first response in today's dream post by Grace about the inclusion of children in dreams}.

My point in this remark calls into question whether Ann has thoroughly come to terms with her childhood. An Individuated person would not act in the way she did toward your relationship. Has she completely confronted her shadow? An truly Individuated person has not only discovered and confronted the demons in life, they also have become 'wholly' spiritual. A spiritual person may reject a relationship but not with an attitude of animosity. Just this past week I parted ways with a dear lady friend of 40 years {she is a Nashvillian} because of her deep prejudices toward African Americans {and Muslims}. Not because I do not care for her any longer but because hopefully ending the friendship will in some way change her attitude. The 'think psychologically, live spiritually' is something I believe in, if for no other reason in my belief that the laws of cause and affect {karma} rule in this life.

Perhaps answers to the questions about Ann will provide clues to your anima. There is no doubt in my mind the dream is focused on your anima aspects, the sorceress being a strong anima figure. The one thing Jung said in his therapy with his patients and one I wholly believe in is 'let's get back to the dream' when analyzing ones soul {dream work is soul work}. Although I use the anima/animus application outside what Jung called for, my experiences have been in working with dreams they generally apply {any male, known or unknown, in a dream in some aspect is addressing the animus in a woman's dream}. The same holds true for a woman in man's dream.

Another general rule I have realized in my dream work is when a child {especially unknown/unnamed}, a childhood reference, time frame or experience is stated in the opening of a dream that dream is addressing experiences/influences about the dreamer that fits with that description. In Grace's dream of today the dream starts with "My first dream started out with me seeing a young girl, she looked about 7 or 8". From many years, and especially the past two years in my interpreting dreams at The Dream Forum, my analysis of such a dream includes a reference to this application. EVERY response has confirmed this. Jean Raffa had posted a dream on her blog about a dream with such a childhood reference {I’m in my childhood home"} and I gave an interpretation pointing to this reference and how I thought it was addressing her childhood. Sure enough she confirmed the reference and application even though she had not given thought to it in her own interpretation. All this goes back to Jung's instructions of 'let's get back top the dream' in attempting to discover what unconscious formulations there were that needed discovery and understanding. Such is The Power of Dreams.

I will end this 'session' by asking if you have discovered your 'bliss'? That is the answer Campbell offers as therapy for all of us. It was in 1998 I began working with dreams as well as web design. Those two things have become my bliss {along with my continued physical fitness routine} and in retirement I am living that bliss. When I first came to the Space Coast of Florida my intent was to do dream work on a one on one basis and give group presentations. I lined up several presentations and soon found myself once again in a position of 'obligation' which brought forth emotions of the 'social dragon'. Having put some much physical and emotional energies into my contracting business over the previous 35 years the 'other' one thing I won't was to be 'retired' from all obligations I did not feel comfortable. The workshops this weekend will be my last. I enjoy the classes but having to prepare for them takes away valuable time I could be giving to my dream work and designing and maintaining my websites {The Power of Dreams being my most recent endeavor}. Campbell pointed out in one of his conversations with Michael Toms just how hard it is in today's society to live the hero journey {of course that was more than 25 years ago}. To follow your bliss is what Mohandas K. Gandhi stated,
"Indolence is a delightful but distressing state; we must be doing something to be happy."

If you can be tolerant of my busy slate this next week I promise I will be free for better discussions after that. I am working toward not being obligated with anything other than those things I see as my bliss.

jerry

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Hi Jerry,

You ask some excellent questions! And they aren't all easy to answer either, especially since my perspective is necessarily subjective in this case. I hope I won't forget that!

But after some years of thought, I've decided that Ann was probably not dedicated to the individuation process, and that it was a big mistake on my part to think that she was on the same journey I was on.

She was an actress, as I mentioned, and when I knew her she had the lead role in a play at the Murfreesboro Little Theater. I think that to an extent, Ann lived in other peoples' perceptions of her - but maybe I'm not saying that very clearly.

I know that Ann always longed for approval from her father, but didn't ever receive it. She told me once that when she brought home a paper with 100 per cent score, it was simply expected, but that if she brought home a 99, her father would spank her.

She shared other stories about him too, and I don't want to waste too much time with those, but maybe one more would not be too much: she told me that her father died just before she got her PhD, and I think she was in the PhD program largely to gain his approval. Once I said something about how proud he would have been, and she said nothing, but my impression was that she said nothing because it was something she'd dearly longed for, and that it hurt for her to recall that.

But to continue with my original thought, I'd say that as an actress, it was too easy - much too easy - for her to conduct herself in such a way as impress people, and she was very impressive, even without any acting. I'd never seen anyone so polished! But I've known a couple of people who were experts on body language, for example, who were simply adept at repressing their own shadow manifestations. And as I said, it took me most of a year to figure out that I was the one providing the insights. She frequently called me 'brilliant' and said I'd given her so much she didn't know how to thank me - but in the end that didn't matter.

I guess this is where it hits the road for me: I know she was hurt deeply as a child, but so was I. And I think anyone who's lived a while has been dealt some deep hurts.

But at some point you have to draw the line, and say, "It stops here." Just having been hurt obviously doesn't give someone the right to inflict unnecessary suffering on another person. I wanted good things FOR Ann, not FROM her. And I was glad to think she was considering marriage, even though I knew that it probably meant our lives would diverge soon. She could have simply let that happen (it was just a matter of two or three weeks until her marriage), and things would have been fine.

But when one starts to think of oneself as a victim, one can justify a lot of actions that I hope I wouldn't rationalize for myself, or ever participate in. So to me, it seems that her final days with me were symptomatic shadow material emerging, perhaps because of repression.

There are a lot of deep writings about this, and Kahlil Gibran is coming to mind for some reason, so here's a link: http://www.katsandogz.com/oncrime.html.

So let me thank you sincerely for your help before I say more. This is really an amazing thing you do Jerry. It is very noble! Have you ever stopped to think of how many people you've helped? Not just the ones who post here, but the ones they're close to? It's amazing, when I look how vast your web site is, to think of the difference you make in the world. And I also want to congratulate you for following your bliss!

My bliss (I think I mentioned this before) would be to write, something like Kahlil Gibran. But that's about like picking an impossible dream! :-)

However, I've learned over the course of years that what happens inside me when I try to write poetic fiction about the deep things of the soul - is maybe the most important thing - and a more than sufficient reward for writing in any event.

I'm mentioning this because it leads back to the dream! I think the magic pill was something that Ann took away from inside of me, because I couldn't write for years afterwards. I couldn't meditate as deeply as before either, at least to the point where I felt I'd found that place in psyche whence Art, Religion, Science and all creativity springs.

Even though I don't think Ann was the quite the object of an anima projection for me (Although, to my understanding, there's nothing pathological about anima projection - since the anima is in our collective unconscious, as opposed to the personal unconscious, it can surge out at any time in a healthy and 'individuated' human being - i.e. repression is not necessary, but adds emotional force to a projection when it does happen. The important point is that a person who knows about this can realize what's happening, whereas those who have an adversarial relationship with their own unconscious are helpless when projection happens, because they're not able to realize what's going on - IMHO.), she was - for a long time - an example of what a human being should be in my eyes. It turns out that there was too much polish, and not enough substance, but I want to acknowledge how close she was - in my eyes - to what was most sacred in a person.

Yet somehow, after years have passed, I'm writing again, and the meditation is getting deeper, despite a number of job-related issues, deaths in the family, and others. And I'm grateful for all that, even though I don't think I'll ever quite get over what Ann did. But I think I'm slowly finding a way to be grateful for that too - and maybe that's what's making the difference.

In closing, I'd like to point out that I had some sexual addictions to deal with early in life also, and that I'm dedicated to fitness as a lifestyle now too. I think exercise and yoga are a form of 'worship' to me - I have to put that in quotation marks - or at least have a lot to do with loving life. And I don't see any of that changing for me either! A wise man once told me that it's much easier to replace a bad habit with a good one - than it is simply to eradicate the bad habit. I think he was right!

Thank you again Jerry. You are an amazing person and I wish more and more that we'd met. Take care, and I'll definitely look forward to visiting your site in the future!

Best,
Jim
INFJ

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Anon,
Sorry not to respond sooner. I've been consumed by putting this workshop together, I'll have it done by this weekend and will take a good look at your post.

Jerry

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Anon,
Finally, time to concentrate on your recent post. He explains a lot, about your dream and Ann.

The title of your dream was 'Struggle with the Sorceress'. I can see who the outer sorceress would be. Ann was good at acting and although her attitude in general was genuine her deeper emotional conflicts ruled her life. A lack of a proper relationship with her father not only deprived her of that father/daughter relationship it also damaged the archetypal father that is 'naturally' expected. On my way to the EarthDance festival this past Thursday I was listening to Anthony Stevens' Jung: A Very Short Introduction {for the umpteenth time} and was reminded of those strong natural currents archetypes afford {so much so I created a page for the Stevens work}. For someone like Ann who has achieved so many achievements in her life, the one achievement that was lacking was the one that was the controlling agent in her life. The lack of proper fulfillment of the biological and archetypal father left its mark and in the end it is showed in her attitude toward you. Despite her many talents he was exhibiting the same cold attitude of her biological father, which in itself was a strong emotional energy. Add to that an unfulfilled archetypal father and what you have is the powers of a sorceress but with a delusional outward projection of unfulfilled energies.

As for the 'inner sorceress' in your dream. I dare say the relationship with Ann aroused emotions within you that focused on your own inner conflicts. Her strong personality may have compensated your anima, what was lacking on your feminine side. Of perhaps it was compensating a desire for a stronger anima. A sorceress is a strong feminine force which can be used for evil and good. Since you are a spiritual person the 'evil' aspect may taken the form of Ann and the balance would be the positive force for which she also possessed. When I look at your dream with the sorceress as an 'inner aspect' there seems to be a quest to find her, her return, something 'she' can do for you', etc. this probably fits Ann in many ways but as you may know all dreams have at least two meanings/applications, usually an inner and outer application. Ann would be the outer.

The deeper aspects
If Ann is the outer sorceress why would there be a focus on the inner sorceress? Did we ever answer the question about your mother? I side with the Freudian view in he placed great importance on the early years of a child in the development and formation of personality {while also accepting Jung's view of the collective unconscious and archetypes}. It may be you are seeking a stronger 'inner' feminine and the early years may or may not contribute to that in a negative way. But when I see a dream where there is a sorceress my first thought goes to the mother. If that can be eliminated as the theme of the dream then I can focus on other aspects.

As for Ann robbing you of the ability to write and meditate. Meeting someone of her powers can be disarming and even when you possess a normal anima her powers could dispose of those. At least temporarily. A strong, balanced personality always resurrects itself and you have done that. Plus her cold attitude at the end of the relationship could play a part. It is a shame she has so much talent and yet can not find her true center. If there are inner associations to her one that does not fit would be the individuated state you seek and are achieving.

You mention sexual addictions in early life. I had the same problem and mine stemmed {unconsciously} from the lack a proper father relationship. The Luke Skywalker seeking his father motif. Have you examined that fully and if so what was the stimulus for it?

I am a firm believer in 'cause and effect' {and Karma} and believe there is an underlying cause for almost all addictions as well as personality and behavioral traits. I often speak to those in my analysis and have begun to focus on that, seeking to better understand if indeed early life fits the 'Freudian' view. I make an effort to point to those early life experiences when I see them and in a dream and thus far the response has been very positive.

To that end, I have long given thought to writing a book but had not decided on what. The one subject I know well and one I may be able to contribute to is dream interpretation. In my work with dreams at this forum I am seeing patterns that I believe are more a norm that previously thought {by accredited Jungian analysts}. Some of this is addressed in Anna's Dreams concerning numbers and Grace's dream about childhood statements in the first part of a dream. I have already formed the opinion that a house in a dream is always the dreamer as is a car and other 'universal' images/symbols. I draw these conclusions from experience. This is where I would direct my energies if I were to write a book on the subject.

Jerry

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Jerry,

I continue to be very impressed with your insight. The amount of information you've gleaned from my dream is almost amazing to me. And the sensation of being totally transparent, or of being read like an open book, can sometimes be a little disconcerting! But I signed up for that when I posted symbols sent by unconscious psyche on your site, didn't I? :-)

Maybe I'll start from the end of your message and try to answer all your questions that way. Actually, I want to apologize first, if this message is just too long - and please let me know if so. I want to answer all your questions, but I know you have other dreams to read. So I'll just emphasize how much I'm going to have left unsaid (!) when I post this reply. :-)

So apart from that, the first thing I want to say is that I'd definitely buy your book! So I hope you'll post a notification on your web site when it becomes available. Maybe you could even offer an arrangement to the people who visit your site, to select a copy autographed by you. I'm not joking! I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one who'd appreciate that.

During the years I've had many dreams about houses and cars, btw, and naturally I agree with you about what they represent. I even think Jung said something along those lines in Man and His Symbols. I'd just add that in my own dreams, it sometimes seems that cars are more likely to represent ego, and houses can kind of get supra-personal sometimes, but again, that's just a general tendency in my own dreams. And I definitely want to read Anna's and Graces dreams now, to see what insights you've distilled from those.

But to answer your questions, first of all, about my mother: Basically, she never grew up (her own mother was the culprit, IMHO). Many of her sisters still have anxiety attacks in their 70s, while my grandmother, who was like a truck who ran over everyone and everything to get her own way, passed away over twenty years ago. She played the organ at church and was very sweet to everyone there, but when she was at home she could fly into a profanity-laced rage instantly when things didn't suit her. I grew up with two brothers and no sisters, completely without a balanced female example in my life (not that the males were any better - they definitely weren't). But I definitely paid a painful price for all that during my early romantic forays.

As a young person I was an overachiever, athletically and academically, and I'm surely not going to list all that I did here. But I think
it could be important to note that I attended the US AF Academy for two years; Gerald Ford nominated me to attend when he was still president. I left with an honorable discharge after two years, looking elsewhere for fulfillment.

Have you read Siddhartha by Herman Hesse? I think that like Siddhartha, I was determined to go my own way. And after many years, and dreams about returning to USAFA (that's what the people who lived there called it), I have to say that going one's own way (= following one's bliss) is much more than 'worth it' - it's absolutely essential, in my opinion. But to over-summarize: I felt like going to the Academy and most of my other 'achivements' - were more of a feather in my mother's cap (my father was an enlisted man in the Air Force) than my own. I couldn't continue at that point to live my life for my mother, or for the approval of anyone else for that matter; my decision to leave USAFA was visceral, mostly unconscious, and extremely powerful.

Ok, fast forwarding to more recent events: I discovered Jung and Campbell a year or so before I met Ann. You're right about Campbell being an easier read btw! I've always considered Jung the analyst, and Campbell the synthesist, bringing many traditions and ways of thinking together, and showing that at root they are one, whereas Jung was blazing new trails in his examination of the psyche - but also finding a lot of ancient wisdom in the Eastern traditions).

It was like being born again, Jerry; so many things about me were brand new discoveries, as I was observing new 'budding' attributes of my personality regularly. Having started with Man and His Symbols, and having read about anima/animus issues, I was very deliberately trying to discover the most sensitive and more feminine aspects of my personality, things I'd repressed without any intention of doing so, and for too long. I'd always focused on the outer, observable world, but now my inner world was asserting itself, just as I started to seek it in earnest.

I think it's important to note that it was a conscious effort on my part to discover my feminine side. But I reached the decision to do that only after dreams I had after I started reading Jung, dreams that brought out some anima issues in a way that was so vivid and emphatic that I couldn't misunderstand the deficient aspect in my personal development. I 'thought' I was understanding Jung as I read the book, but it was really the vivid dreams I started having, that clinched it for me.

So - soon afterwards I met Ann, and was very impressed. Not only was she living life as if she cherished every moment, but she also had PhD in psychology and seemed to have - at least at that time - far more knowledge of the psyche than I did. I hoped that we'd become friends, and it seemed to happen spontaneously. In a way, I relied on her superior knowledge as we began to have some short conversations about Campbell and Jung during the lunch meetings I mentioned in an earlier post.

So let's see if I can answer your question about the inner and outer sorceress. It might be hard to explain if you never had a waking vision like the one I described, so I'd like to describe it a little further.

But it was so far beyond anything I'd ever experienced, that I don't have words to describe it. And because I had to look away and 'choke it off' (i.e. repression) so that I wouldn't lose control of myself in a public place, moments of extreme sensitivity kept welling up spontaneously for at least a month afterward. I thought that the experience - i.e. the vision - was a gift from Ann, but later I thought it seemed more that I was responsible for bringing up something precious from the depths of my own being.

The day I had the vision, Ann cried too. It was definitely a shared experience, but she didn't have any idea about my vision, or have one of her own - I had to explain that to her later. But as I said earlier, she did excuse herself to go to the ladies' room for ten minutes before we went back to the office. And on the way back, she said she was glad we were friends, but she also made it clear that she was not interested in romance. She told me that she'd had an affair once, that it had ended her marriage, and that she didn't intend to repeat that mistake.

But please note that I'd never brought up anything remotely like romance, so I was a little surprised when she said that. She'd never made a personal disclosure remotely that revealing to me either. So I gave her my word that I'd never try to introduce a romantic element into our friendship, or try to be more than a friend to her.

But I also allowed myself to think she was starting to like me in a deeper way. Since she had an advanced credential in psychology, I always assumed that Ann could read me like a book, so I never tried to hide any facts or feelings from her. But there are definitely things a sensitive person doesn't bring up, such as feelings of affection, without some kind of invitation - but that invitation came, in time...

In any event, the vision was (and still is in my mind) a strong validation of the path I was walking, but it also was a profound bonding experience that seemed to affect us both. Ann began to tell me about the deep hurts in her life, because in her words she didn't have another friendship that generated the insights that ours did. She called me a kindred spirit, and told me she cherished our friendship.

But she had a cold side too; you were so right about that! After a while, I noticed that if I dropped by her office to say hi, I'd tend to see her cold side, but that if I just waited for her, she would come and share the most intimate details of her life with me, without the slightest prompting on my part.

I had been reading her favorite book, Care of the Soul by Thomas Moore, and it opened my eyes a little further along the lines of Jungian thought (Moore studied under James Hillman, who studied under Jung). And I thought the book helped me to understand Ann better as well. One day it coalesced for me: I thought I'd figured out some important things about her, and was starting to understand some of the apparent contradictions in her behavior.

That same morning, she came to me and asked if we could go for a drive before work started, and we did. By then, I'm sure she knew that I loved her, though I would never speak of it - and she knew that too. That day was one of her 'cold days,' and she seemed to think it was necessary to rule out the possibility of romance for a second time. So she started by asking me what had been troubling me, and I asked in turn if she was sure she wanted to know how I felt about her. She didn't hesitate when she said yes.

So I told her what I thought Thomas Moore had helped me to see, that even while she was a child, she had died a thousand times for her father's approval, to hear him express his love for her just once, and that I knew she'd do it another thousand times if her were still alive. I said it was the most holy example of human life in my experience, that it staggered me to think about it, and that sometimes I just didn't know what to do with all of that. I told her I loved her deeply and truly, and that I would die, if necessary, just so she could go on living.

I was moved by a lot of unconscious energy that day, and I went on to say that I thought she'd looked for affection from other guys to replace the relationship she didn't have with her father, that she'd been become promiscuous, and that she'd eventually become cynical about men as a result.

I even said (like a fool), "Am I getting all this right?" And she bravely said yes. I really regretted saying that and tried to apologize the next day - but she waved it aside as if it were nothing - and I'll get to that in a minute.

The fact is that this had started as one of Ann's cold days! She knew I loved her, but to Ann that meant only sexual attraction, and she was not about to have sex with me, so she wanted to get away from the office to clarify something that was already painfully clear to me. But now she was crying again. She was truly stunned. "This is what I've always wanted a man to say to me," she said. Then less than a minute later, she said the same words again. I didn't touch her that day; she touched me three times.

She told me that she thought I'd just wanted to have sex with her, and she said that every man she'd ever known had wanted to have sex with her. Please note I'm not denying that I wanted to join with her, but what I told her then was the truth: I told her that I was A true friend, not just HER true friend, that I wanted good things FOR her, not FROM her. It went on for a while. It was a good talk.

The next day she came into my office with tears in her eyes to thank me again. That's when I tried to apologize for suggesting that she'd been promiscuous, but she waved it away with a smile, as if it were nothing - as if she was glad I understood without judging. She said she'd come to see me because now she was afraid that we'd become lovers after all, and that it would ruin our friendship, so I told her that I would always be her friend (I was surprised by the change in her attitude, and that's all I could think of on the spur of the moment).

Ok, I could just go on and on. And in case you think I already have, let me emphasize that I haven't really even started! I could write a book about this; nevertheless, I'm going to stop now.

What I'm trying to do is answer your question about the inner sorceress and the outer sorceress. And I think that part of the answer is that Ann was part of me. Just as I began to integrate my own shadow, I found the most remarkable insights (this story is not the best incident with Ann, but it’s definitely the most relevant). Wherever my 'inner goddess' was, Ann wasn't far from that.

But when, with extreme cruelty, Ann threw our friendship away, I began to doubt myself seriously (almost always a good practice). Had I really made all the progress I thought I’d made, or was it all just an illusion of love?

In the dream, I definitely had some magic inside me, some insight won at the cost of great struggles with myself, resolved in the wake of other painful separations, and she took it from inside of me and left me empty before she discarded me.

So… those are my thoughts about the inner and outer sorceress. Now I’m going to go back and cut the non-essentials from this post!

I want to add that I always thought we’d get together after our split, and resolve things. We had to do that a couple of times during our relationship, and I was sure we would do it again. It was only when she refused to speak with me that I knew it would never happen. So it became incumbent on me to continue my walk alone, but it also freed me to do that (well I was always free, but I felt free then). I think Campbell says that’s the way it is (the solitary path) in Hero with a Thousand Faces, and I think he was right.

So in a way, the moment when she refused to meet with me freed me to pursue enlightenment again. Before that, I wondered what had happened. Had I said something that she had misunderstood? One day, after the story I just told, I was able to show her how her father had once apologized to her for everything he'd done and hadn't done, and she hadn’t realized it. That’s when I started to see I wasn’t ‘less’ than Ann. And she cried again, told me that she was so grateful for all I’d done for her that she didn’t know how to repay me.

And one day she pulled her pants down, and (partially) her panties as well, to show me a tattoo that she had that she said was inspired by me during a conversation we’d had about Taoism. That was another day I didn’t touch her - which is not to say I didn’t want to.

Oh well Jerry, I have to apologize again for all these details. They’re all so interwoven in my mind that it’s hard to separate one from another sometimes.

I’ll just say in closing that I was molested at age twelve, that it seemed to cause a mental block regarding my feminine side, and that it was the cause for a lot of the sexual difficulties that followed. It’s difficult to say more.

But I hope I’ve answered at least your important questions, and thank you again for your amazing healing work.

Best Regards!

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Re: Struggle with sorceress

Anon,
You don't have to apologize for the long response. One thing I know the Forum does is let people speak what is on their mind. When they do that they give thought to things they seldom think about and by doing that indulge in self therapy. Of course you are different in you have given much thought to this. But we all need a n outlet and by speaking the words I believe is good therapy.

Plus I tend to say a lot in my posts also. I can never give a simple interpretation, no matter how short the dream.

I sensed there was a conflict with your mother. In a way she was an outer sorceress in she possessed negative qualities of the sorceress. Vampiric blood is poisonous to all members of the Sorcery Lines and your mother was a vampire in her own right. Able to change forms at will.

Of course your recent encounter with the sorceress was Ann. I dare say you were drawn to her not only because of the attractive qualities she possessed {physical and mental} but possibly an unconscious attractiveness because of an intuitive sense. She in actuality possessed similar qualities of your mother, able to change forms at will. Plus there is the similar experience of expressing your love {naturally as a child to a mother} and being rejected by both your mother and Ann. Deep wounds early in life as well as later in life. Thankfully you had already discovered Jung and the later life experience did not destroy you. In many such cases it would have with 'lesser' men.

I want to take a minute to share a little of my personal history on a couple of topics since you have been so brave to share yours. On the subject of the intuitive mind. I an a very strong believer in the innate senses with intuitiveness being one we can actually enhance. I am an extrovert and have always trusted those things I 'sensed' as concrete. Whether this is purely inherent quality or was partly a product of distrust because of how my father treated me {abandonment} I am sure. But looking back at early life and the introverted way I lived {feelings less than other children because I was poor} I know this quality is a part of who I am if no other reason because of my early life experiences.

But there was a change later in life after I came out from forced introverted life {it was a black school teacher at Hume Fogg who changed that-who was incidentally murdered by his son in the 80s}. After 'coming out' I was able to be my true self, at least personality wise. I carried with me that sensing attitude and still possess it {show me the facts}. But after working as an environmentalist with the Metro Health Department for 13 years {a job the school teacher helped me to get} for 13 years {after my military service} I gained valuable people skills. Along with the many 'relationships' I had both romantically and otherwise I 'learned' people. Later in my 30s I realized I had this ability to 'sense' people from the inside [whereas before it was purely outward}. When I discovered Campbell in '92 I discovered what I possessed was intuitive abilities. When I began studying Jung and dreams {I consider myself an 'intuitive Jungian'} I realized I had a 'knack' at understanding dreams, long before I actually acquired the skills I now possess in analyzing and interpreting dreams. I thought for a long time I needed to guard against believing I had 'extra-ordinary' skills in interpreting dreams but now I know it is true. One only need to look at the track record at the Dream Forum to verify this. And I credit this ability because I possess both intuitive skills as well as personal experience/people skills. If I am not mistaken when you are able to acquire the opposite senses of your natural type you have fulfilled one aspect of Individuation.

But there is more history to my intuitive abilities I feel relevant. All of your siblings were brothers whereas I grew up with three sisters. From the age of 6 until 18 I lived with my mother and three sisters. Such a strong feminine influence for 18 years surely had an affect/effect {it both was a result as well as an influence}.

And then there were the 'romantic' relationships. I know now what was occurring was 'looking for love in all the wrong places'. But during those experiences it was never a demeaning experience toward women, just the opposite. I felt I needed to share my positive self {perhaps feeling it so strongly after my coming out}, I wanted so much to please women. Of course the pleasing aspect was part of wanting to fulfill what I 'felt I never did' with my father {the child blaming oneself} but I think there was more to it. I was connecting to the inner feminine, perhaps the influence of natural law, balancing what was needed to find wholeness {Jung: we are all meant to be whole}. And of course the sex was a fixation, that being the Freudian contribution to understanding the great forces this 'animal' quality had on life. By the age of 30 I had grown out of the sexual fixations but not the need for to fulfill the father I never had. That only happened after I discovered Campbell and Jung and began my inward journey. It took nearly 12 years to come to full grips with that, although there are still moments when I can still see and feel for that 'little boy' I was.

Back to the present. And your dream.
I like the expression 'back to the dream'. I understand that is what Jung insisted on when analyzing a patient. When I get a response to my interpretation i like to go back to the dream and see how every thing plays out with any new information I may gain from the response. This helps me with discovering patterns, not only in the dreams but in the dreamers' personal lives. Both should coincide, the dream pattern to the waking life pattern of behavior. Often I see personality traits in a dream and I try to verify this as well. When I do write my book I want to express what I have learned independent of Jung {of course using his concepts and expanding on what I believe is beyond that, or beyond what I know of his 'voluminous' works}.

In the dream its starts out 'you are in a large house, definitely not my own'. Two points to this opening statement. One is this wording before the mention of the sorceress {which is the primary 'villein/negative emotional conflict in the dream}. A house definitely not your own. That suggest 'being possessed' by something other than natural aspects. When I look at a dream the first thing that is stated is what I believe to be the primary message of the dream. Even without the mention of the sorceress this statement alone would require me to look for a 'possession' aspect within your life. Just with a dream where there is a unnamed/unknown child being the dreamer at the age or time frame stated {or inferred} in the dream, this is what I believe to be a 'truism' in dreams. And as it turns out this is true with your dream and your life {these are the type things I want to focus on in my book}.

But your opening statement goes further. The first two paragraphs are actually the opening statement but the very first gets to the central negative theme that is the 'emotional conflict'. The pill would be the 'spell' this inner/outer sorceress has over you. Your statement not only describes the central conflict but also aspects of the battle you have waged with this 'sorceress'. "I’d already defeated two of her subordinates" is a phrase I take to mean you have already confronted two of these feminine sources, having encountered and taking on the task of reconciling both the relationship with your mother {inner} and Ann {outer} sorceresses. This is not common {such a statement describing the battle} in many dreams. But few people have discovered what you have discovered in your study of Jungian psyche. You were at first 'hiding' from this but possess the courage and discipline of the 'hero' to take on this task of confronting and reconciling your demons.

Then the scene changes {fitting with Jung's second stage of the dream structure, the plot or development of the 'story'. You are on the floor which I believe points to 'foundations' of the personal psyche. You are confronting the inner sorceress, your mother. The clue to this inner aspect would be the dream language "which is completely unchanged by having been inside me." These early life influences are still 'intact'.

But you have confronted this inner sorceress and have begun to remove the importance to her influence at 'all levels'. Here we see a distinct reference of confronting to both aspects of the inner and other sorceresses {all levels}. The freedom to leave {which could also easily be interpreted as 'the freedom to live', as in the 'monomythic journey'} is a statement to both aspects. But fears remain {normal for the ego self to feel}.

The plot is developing. The dream starts out with what is the primary emotional conflict and the people/things involved with that. And now the story develops to what is happening with that conflict.

Then the dream turns to the third stage, the culmination or new actions in the dream. The outer sorceress becomes a focus of the dream, but with the influence of the inner {carrying a very small red car “around my body”}. Your mother is out of your life as a 'conscious' controlling agent. But you continue to carry the unconscious influences and this is where the outer sorceress comes into play {arms wrapped the outside of the car's body}. The central battle is still an inner battle {left it inside her house}, the influences still having an unconscious attachment to the outer world. Anything on the right is of the ego world {the left is the hero path}.

This outer sorceress has put you in an 'inferior' position {car to bicycle}. This is what love can do to you, as well as what a strong feminine power has done to you {childhood}. Home is your inner home and no shoes not being grounded to proper principles {at least temporarily when it comes to be influenced later in life}. But you have the 'helping hands' of Jung and Campbell to guide and support you}. The basket contains developed principles 'put' together by the inner work you have done. The left side of the basket {things you hold on to} is the hero journey, the path you have chosen to take, the principles you live by and hold on to.

Now the final stage of the dream, Jung's lysis. This can be a resolution or result of the dream actions {reflecting the true condition of the dreamer}. There seems to be things left unresolved although things are under control {remember, this is your condition at the time of the dream}. The affects/effects of the relationship with Ann {she remained in the house while I fled} are still present. The inner feminine, your anima, is OK despite the emotional conflicts {both inner and outer}. But until you understand the full force of the 'sorceresses' there is an impending urgency to know and understand. Plus, and this is important, there is another aspect now in play {the real urgency}. At the age of 54 you are in the autumn of life and although there have been conflicts with the sorceress there is a desire for the feminine in your life. The strong winds of love perhaps, once touched twice affected. There are probably still unresolved issues with your mother and definite issues remaining about Ann. But having gained the knowledge of combating these issues, and the archetypal influences of the natural life, autumn is upon us {literally, its almost October} and time is short [as is life}.

There are always other aspects to a dream that have meaning. I've touched on {on a single long examination} on what seems to stick out. I could look at it again and see something else {mostly in association to what I have already provided}. As Jung stated, a dream can have new meaning years later.

A full range of emotions for sure. Getting back to the dream with the added information you provided gives new insights to the dream. And of course what ever the dream is saying is reflective of the true condition. The great news comes toward the end of the dream. You have placed your confidence in the hero journey {as have I, and live by those specific principles}. With that the helping hands of fate on your side {Karma is a great ally} and what ever remains unresolved will be resolved. No one can reach perfection but we can be as whole as we let ourselves be. The hero journey is as good a path in achieving that wholeness as any I have come across. And like you I have read much of what is offered. With our belief system we merely need to 'let go and use the force'. The hardest work has already been done, we have discovered that inner SELF and its is now in control.

And you were worried about being long winded.

Jerry



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