Jimmy,
I apologize for taking more time than promised for my reply but there are so many things to do with to little time to do them all. I thought after I retired I would have all the time in the world to work with dreams. But because of the task of caring for my community felines {and those I personally have} I often find myself overloaded with things to do. One thing about my retirement is I have no time to get bored.

To your latest response, one I thank you for because it was detailed and from the heart. I thrive on feedback and detailed response with true sincerity is the best I can get.

Jung's concepts are from the natural psyche. I have no formal education in Jungian psychology, my education being self learned over the past 23 years. I have an intuitive connection to his theories primarily because they are a natural part of all human psyche {and nature as a whole}. I began working with dreams on a serious level in the mid 90s and at that time Jung was still pretty much new to most internet travelers. Today it is Jungian psyche that has replaced Freudian misconceptions with all most all serious dream sites either Jungian based or using much of Jungian concepts without admitting it. The concept of the shadow is basically Jungian as is the anima/animus {although most all modern theory has its foundations in early concepts}. When you are self analyzing you are involved in the individuation process, that term being an official concept of psychology. Perhaps a better known term for individuation but not realized is 'going inward' or the inward journey. It is when the traveler seeks to know them-self better by dissecting all aspects of the inner self that it becomes a psychological journey. I started the process in 1992 {when I discovered Joseph Campbell} and have been engaged ever since {it is a life long process of self discovery}.

As for the academic application of Jungian theory when working with dreams, I have pretty much abandoned that and instead use the basics. I don't go looking for a shadow self but instead let it find me. The only concept I use on a regular basis is the anima/animus and that is because it is so prevalent in dreams. I don't try to explain the concepts either having the benefit of two Jungian based websites with Myths-Dreams-Symbols containing several hundred pages of content. I more often refer to these pages {linking to them} when I do note a Jungian concept with my intent to make understanding dreams as simple as possible. I believe doing this helps the dreamer understand my analysis/interpretation and allows them to see associations to their waking life. To state a dream image is your shadow requires either a detailed explanation or leaving them wondering what that dark side is all about. Jungian psyche is 'deep' and confusing to the mind that has not explored his concepts in depth. I do my best to simplify as much of my analysis as possible, articulating what I see within a dream in words that can be understood with only a degree in life and not psychology.

The importance of the childhood years. This is where I tend to side with Freud over Jung {Jung believing later experience in life having just as much or more importance}. We now know {a science Jung did not have access to} that the first three years of life are the most important in the formation of the psyche. It used to be thought that an infant is born with a limited capacity to learn. But that has changed and it is believed that by age nine personality is pretty much formed and the foundations for attitudes are set. Of course the Jungian archetypes provides us with a knowledge we all have preset instructions for our human life and with an understanding an infant is not only capable of learning from its environment, it thrives on it for basic understanding on what lies ahead. The psyche begins to form in the womb and its earliest experiences/influences become motivators for personality and attitudes for the rest of their life. When I use this as a part of my dream analysis I find it fits too perfectly not to have a sound basis for its application. Because all dreams do have at least two meanings/applications {a Jungian concept I totally agree with} I see these markers in the great majority of dreams. Whereas a dream is trying to help the dreamer understand the emotional conflict from yesterday's disagreement with a co-worker or family member, it is at the same time revealing the underlying reasons for the actions/re-actions by the dreamer and the developed attitudes and personality traits for them. I can not name a specific experience that stimulated a dream but I can discern the underlying reasons for the attitudes/traits for the emotional response. By naming those the dreamer most often can connect the dots and see all ends of what the possible meanings/applications are. Using this method has resulted in great success when I analyze dreams with the evidence of that success contained in the posted dreams at this Dream Forum. A 'rational' mind can see that evidence if they take the time to read the dreams, my interpretations and the responses to my analysis. Based on experience I truly believe that dreams are no longer a great mystery that is unsolved but instead messages from the psyche that cane be interpreted by anyone with a developed intuitive sense and a good many years of study of Jungian concepts. My mind is average at best {I don't believe in IQ tests as such} and if I can successfully analyze dreams anyone with the defined qualities/experience I noted can also.

You state in this last response something I feel is not only important in your self discovery but also a primary reason for your dream. Leaving the world you know and exploring the vast other possibilities opens the psyche to even greater things, within and with out. Not only is it a physical journey of 'worldly' discovery but also a psychological journey that stimulates self discovery. Leaving the known world behind to explore other worlds, this is exactly what individuation is and can be found in all mythologies as the 'hero journey' {Joseph Campbell's Monomyth}. When one participates in a journey of self discovery they become the hero/heroine in their own life. As Campbell stated, "the dream is a personal myth, myth the universal dream". The emotional energies depicted in dreams are connected to the universal energies of all mankind if not nature itself. They are references to the archetypal energies we all possess with the personal energies not only influenced by the environment in early growth but also by the innate influences of the universal energies. Both are motivators for the development for individual personality and attitudes with individual DNA a determiner what path the person ultimately takes{try stating this in analyzing dreams and watch people go for the door in utter confusion} .

A brief comment about lucid dreaming, pretty much what i have already stated. Lucid dreaming can be a great tool if used properly. But when used as a 'play thing' it can dilute the natural intent of dreaming. Although the natural process will eventually come through {just as with losing sleep and making up for dream time when you sleep again, proven science research} it will take longer to do so and any lost time is essential in proper development of the psyche. There has been a lot of research into lucid dreaming but there is a lot more to do before we know exactly how it affects dreams and dreaming in general.

Your words 'sheer creative genius' is perhaps the ultimate result of working with ones dreams. Campbell's lesson for life was to 'follow your bliss', find that thing in life you love best and make it your career. Most often this is a creative aspect. Besides my great interest and involvement in working with dreams I am also self educated in web design. My web site Myths-Dreams-Symbols is my creative self and has been an outlet in expressing my true self {and part of my process of individuation}. My more recent website the Power of Dreams is also an aspect of my creative self and a condensed version of MDS. When you discover your bliss you put yourself on a plane beyond the norm and as Campbell stated 'doors open where there were none previously'. The ultimate journey as well as discovery in life is spiritual and through the creative aspect of 'giving' you are involved in a spiritual endeavor. When you realize you are on that journey, and after you have traveled a path of self discovery long enough to 'know', the next aspect of the journey is to reach others what you have learned. I see my analyzing/interpreting dreams along with my dream websites as tools in sharing what I have discovered and learned. A spiritual endeavor that gives not only to the other but back to the self.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 65 Cocoa, Fl

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Jerry,

Thanks yet again for your informative response Jerry. It is always a pleasure to see a person fill their life with fulfillment and love. I am delighted to hear about your spiritual journey leading into helping others (myself included!) as well as into creative endeavours. It is rather beautiful.
I like your non academic jungian approach. It seems one of the more common pitfalls of the jungian approach is that it is seductive to look for the big dreams for the noumenal archetypal touch in every dream but this can end up being a false hype. Letting the dream speak for itself is no doubt the best approach and I definitely agree about the anima it is a concept which really revealed a lot when I came across it and bore a lot of fruit in my dreamwork. As for the shadow this was also a big revelation but it has not borne as much fruit. In fact I've been tempted since speaking to you here to delve back into my dreams and explore with an eye to shadow elements for no doubt they are the parts I would naturally not want to focus on whereas the anima is a lot more flowery and seductive and invites exploration.
"I do my best to simplify as much of my analysis as possible, articulating what I see within a dream in words that can be understood with only a degree in life and not psychology."
∆ I really enjoy this sentiment.

As for what you say about the childhood years I have many thoughts and feelings on this. I find it so fascinating and it is something that is really new and exciting for me in my dream work. I'm still not sure how to use it and so I am seeking to learn from you for I really enjoyed your interpretation of my dream and I've been looking at some of your other work and its fascinating to me its a tool you definitely bear a lot of fruit with. I agree with this multiple level idea and it seems to have been something jung and then hillman tried to accept. Jung at first saying stick to the image which I take to be keeping Freud in line since yes you can trace back to the childhood years but that is not what the dream is speaking about but what it betrays in the sense that it is part of the dreaming psyche if that makes sense. Hillman seems to go further in saying the same and applying it to Jung as well saying yes we can go off into the archetypes and off into the childhood but stick to the image. Im not such a fan of Hillman. But again I think there are just avenues which open up but the childhood avenue is never one I've known how to integrate into my own practice and so to discover you has been a very pleasant encounter! As for the Freud vs Jung argument while the childhood certainly has a massive and primary role it is not final our fate is not written so early I feel that the individuation process is not greatly important and effective. It is like a second interaction with the developments of the childhood years a chance to play more of a role in this conditioning.
What you say about joe Campbell certainly resonates I read his hero with a thousand faces in my travels and the symmetry of the physical as well as the psychological nature of the journey certainly struck a chord with me. I also know what you mean with lucid dreaming. It can just be a play pen. My intention had been to engage my subconscious in my lucid dreaming and interact with it. As it turns out this intention has come to fruition through my dreamwork.
I am going to post another of my dreams on the board after this response jerry but before I finish I want to ask you about a couple of things. I read your guide to dream interpretation and one thing I came across was your three things to pick out in the dream: the images the phrases and the patterns. While I fully get the images and I think I understand the patterns of behaviours I was having trouble understanding what you were aiming at with the phrases describing actions. Could you help make this clearer for me perhaps using either this dream or my next one? And maybe some examples of the patterns of behaviour as well if you could?
Also one more question about jungian dreamwork what do you think of active imagination. I mean obviously it's not a technique you can take advantage of on here but do you find it useful in your own dreamwork?

Thanks a million,
Jimmy

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 23 now in canada (previously travelling Australia) but from Ireland

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Jimmy,
Thanks for the detailed response. I'll give a brief response of my own and then take a look at your latest dream.

It is not often I get to have a conversation with someone who has god knowledge of Jungian psyche. I stopped trying to converse with academic types because they are so intent on the strict application of Jungian concepts. Plus few have real life experiences or intuitive mind to compliment the depth knowledge Jung provides. I feel my life experiences are largely responsible for my ability to intuitively understand dreams since many of those experiences involved emotional energies most people experience in life. I also believe my learned/developed people skills provides great insights that are helpful {I worked as a health codes inspector/enforcement for 12 years before starting a fence construction business for which I retired after 34 years}. The one thing I have learned from working with dreams that fits with life in general is good common sense goes a long way in understanding what is and what isn't.

As to the question about the phrases describing actions. When you read my analysis/interpretations you will notice how I mention my interpretation of images and actions. An image alone doesn't always provide a right direction or true description or intent of what the dream is attempting to communicate. Although I interpret an image itself I take into context the actions involved when the image appears as well as how it applies to what has been stated already in the dream. I look at a dream as a production, a script of the dreamer's emotional life. Just as a with a play or movie production there has to be a plot that comes together. Just like a good play/movie production dreams have complex twists and turns. Being a big fan of the old Sherlock Holmes movies I see myself as a sleuth of dreams, taking the available evidence as well what is not available {common sense plays well with this} and finding patterns that fit together. Dreams are like a picture puzzle with a proper place for each piece. When the pieces {images/actions} begin to fit together to form a picture then I intuitive sense a direction as well as an emotional pattern take form. An image a lone says a lot but the actions that go with the image says a lot more. As with all patterns {I'm thinking of neurons as an example} there are related actions to the central energy {the image} that allows us to understand not only the direction it is headed but from what direction it came. In dreams/psychology the foundations begin in childhood with those experiences/influences being imprinted on the psyche. Going back to the source of anything will reveal its underlying foundations, even if it does change into a butterfly from a caterpillar later in life. The image of a butterfly doesn't properly describe the intricate journey it took to reach its maturity.

As for active imagination. That is one aspect of the individuation process I have not actively investigated as a tool to wholeness. Of course just by working with dreams we are bridging conscious and the unconscious. By translating the images in dreams we are participating in active imaging but not as a meditation used in the various methods offered by different techniques. Plus I used my imagination in my web design, my creative outlet of self expression. While I was self analyzing my own life and discovering who I really am I used my websites {Myths-Dreams-Symbols in particular} as a way to express what was within. This was my path to self imaging as well as a way to be creative. Unfortunately I have had too little time in the past several months to work with my creative self and because of the demands of my dream work, caring for my cat population and maintaining a home I have lost touch with that creative self. It is there, incubating but utilizing it at this time is on the back burner.

I'll take a look at your latest dream. It will take a little time to analyze because of its length so it will be tomorrow at the earliest before I will be able to interpret the images/actions and the dream {I have begun to provide a breakdown of how I interpret the images/actions for most dreams}.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 65 Cocoa, Fl

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