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Waking the Guru

Hi Gerard,

Since discovering your website I've enjoyed it very much. Last night I had a dream which I found interesting and which seems to play into what I have been processing for several months.

In the dream scenario I am talking to another women outside of what felt like apartments, but old, European style (felt like Italy perhaps). I was stating to her some point of view of Jung's, but as I used his name I didn't know if I was pronouncing it right. At first I used Jung with a "J" pronounciation and then Jung with a "Y". After getting that out, I was saying something along the lines of how we need to be integrated within the self. Then, a spiritual teacher (whom I knew many years ago) came out of the door. He looked different but I patted him on the back and stated "did I wake you?" Seems he just smiled, there was no verbal reply.

Over the past several months many, if not all, of my dreams have contained water as I have been processing the letting go of two different relationships in my life that I felt, held me back. One was a love relationship that never gave the fulfillment I longed for and one was my sister whom I feel, I could not relate to genuinely because of her need to compete and compare. The former pained me greatly and so the dreams were frought of for example, a tsunami coming and me needing to get to the other side of a road in order to not be engulfed, while I knew he was "still back there" in the rising water. I literally ran for safety. Lately, I've dreamt of being in a house and there is snow all around encasing the house. I tell someone to shut the door because it is cold outside, yet, I go into the interior of the house, to the kitchen, and find warmth there and good feelings. The next night I dreamt of being outside in the snow having fun while riding upon a sled. There is a tissue that I watch float away. I did not feel compelled to try and catch it.

During this period I've found that in my dreams I was somewhat judgemental of the male. In one dream I "size the man up" and height wise, he is found wanting. In another scenario he is not supportive of me. A female child is at the mouth of a cave needing assistance and I run ahead of the male somewhat resentful that I take action before he does.

Does the Guru implicate that I am now beginning to trust that my own male aspect is awakening and I can rely on that? Interspersed within these dreams were lovely scenarios of hearing a tranquil stream and seeing a broad horizon. Or, of me and my ex husband receiving a boquet of flowers each and smelling their fragrance (many years ago - 12, I left him. He is now recently remarried while I remain single and while I continue to strive toward continued growth no matter the dissapointments, have to have believe in self). These past months more than ever, I feel in the throws of great change, self initiated mind you, but so painful, i.e, getting older, building a new foundation (I am in school, going back to an old vocational love, massage, and so it's another transtion). I have faced many "unknowns", but this is different!

Your insights would be very appreciated.

Sincerely, Pj

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 46, Calif

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} F

Re: Waking the Guru

You have certainly covered some ground and are well versed in the hero' path.
Overall you seem to have a good understanding of the message of your dreams. Do you have doublts ? (this may be represented in the uncertainty of pronounciation). In the dream how did you feel after the re-appearance of the teacher? There are cautions about the appearance of the wise man in dreams ,,, I think this relates to our ego being inflated. However your feeling in the dream would be indicative of the teachers significance.
I think you should take deep heart from this.
This would be supported by the house encased by snow ,,, inside it is warm, comforting and in the kitchen there is alchemy ,,,,then you are outsided playing ,,,
There is a lot of symbolism in your post - one that really caught me was the tissue drifting off and you didn't bother to chase it. Casting off, something that is now so light it floats off and your response ,,, the changes have been underway for some time.
Take heart PJ, you've woken the guru
JC

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 46

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Brisbane / Australia

Re: Waking the Guru

pj,
I had a long, detailed breakdown interpretation of your dream and then my computer crashed {g#@*^%+#%* computers}. Let me start again and hopefully give an adequate response to your dream. I will not try and resurrect all that I had written before the crash but will give a synopsis of what I believe your dreams are trying to communicate.

Justin has hit on a favorible aspect about your Self that is definitely good news; you have awoken the guru within. But there seems to be a bit of distrust of the masculine rather than an acceptance as you asked in the last paragraph of your post. Overall the dream is reflecting the actual events, experiencies and emotions surrounding the waking conditions in your life. The spiritual teacher, the inner Self is taking the lead in your life but there seems to be some unresolved issues concerning the masculine. The emotional issues
{tsunami} may have provided a barrier to a proper integration of the masculine, in your waking life and your inner world.
Your statement about your dreams having a judgemental attitude towards male/masculine gives credence to this distrust I spoke of. In your actual waking life you have found conflicts in the love relationship with your male partner and also conflicting emotions with your sister over her masculine attitudes of competion and comparing. There may be a tendenacy to 'shut the door' to outer relationships when it comes to the masculine, and/or those people who tend to show masculine qualities you believe to be unnecessary. There may also be an inner distrust which could have an affect on those masculine qualities within your psyche.

On the positive side the dream seems to indicate you are working through these issues. Riding on the sled in the snow and letting the tissue {outer issues} float away suggests your individuation is functioning properly. In one dream you find the masculine wanting and unsupportive. This reflects the outer conflicts in dealing with your love relationship and your sistre's attitudes. It may not
only reflect inner aspects of conflict dealing with masculine issues pertaining to those outer experiences but also personal masculine qualities about yourself that are lacking {were you forceful enough, or were you too forceful in those outer relationships?}. The dream is trying to present a balance in your attitudes, conscious and unconscious.

One thing that is unusual but very interetsing about the first part of your post was the problem of pronounciation of Jung's name. You saw yourself using the Y instead of a J. This seems to be a '
Freudian slip' and may be addressing the issues of getting older. Instead of Jung with a J, using the Y may suggest peroccupation of no longer being 'young'. Dreams can present so many different possibilities when it comes to the interpretation of the symbols. And since you are in the middle of the mid-life thing, this possibility of J and Y seems to fit.

I believe as Justin suggested you have awoken the hero within and are on a path of realization. I would look at the masculine attitudes to see if there are issues from past experiences that may be a negative in your waking life. This is not unusual, I myself have encounter difficulties in resurrecting the passion I once possessed when it comes to relationships {I have not had a serious relationship in the past 12 years, after 3 failed marriages}. We seem to confronting
some of the same issues when it comes to relationships.

Let me know your thoughts on my interpretations and perhaps we can discover more about these possible issues. I wish my computer had not crashed since I had broken down the symbols from your dreams. But the above synopsis should provide you with my understanding of what your dreams are wishing to communicate to you about your life as it stands at the present time.

Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 55 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

Re: Re: Waking the Guru

Well as I read your reply, Gerard, to PJ's post you might have heard coins dropping and nails being hit on the head -
Interesting how looking things from the (non-attached) perspective taken when looking at someone else's issues can really do this so effectively.
(The ego is disengaged ,,,, and the camouflage is not as effective).

You may recall my posts about female nurse, teacher and then prison guard; and as Steven pointed out there is a progression there ,,,

Your reply has given me a much clearer personal insight into how the masculine has been unsupportive in my life.
I think I turned to the feminine, and away from masculine aspects; competition in particular.
This played out in my relationships - women that initially were 'feminine', compensated for my under-expressed masculine side (as I look at it now) and became more 'masculine' .... so they saw that I had changed and I saw that they had changed ,,, in fact we both had.
I knew this before but couldn't get a handle on the 'why / how',,, and so did not know how to address the situation(s) - especially with diminished skills at 'confrontation'.
The initially nurturing (nurse) and helpful (teacher) aspects of the feminine that I turned to and took refuge in became too big, and blocked my development (prison guard) ....
There is probably a lot more detail to unfold but this is a major new perspective for my own history ,, that will maybe allow a degree of healing re-writing to occur

lots more grist for the mill
Thanks to you both - PJ for the post, Gerard for the detailed reply and maybe even the gremlyn that got into yr computer
JC

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 46

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Brisbane / Australia

Re: Re: Waking the Guru

Hi Gerard and Justin and thank you for your replies.

I given thought to your imput and while I wanted to print out your post Gerard for reference it came up invisible. Guess I have to dig a little.....#@?*&^printers....

There is much credence to what you've suggested about trusting the animus Gerard, and it has been helpful to realize that my inner self is seeking to establish some healthy balance to counter the emotional issues that I've delt with in waking reality. While the relationship is four months in the past I'd known this person through my thirites and then didn't see him for three years. There was much manipulation and abandonment at a time when I was undergoing a very challening phase (back surgeries - I'm totally fine now), but those wounds took two years to heal. It was lonely, etc. but I got on with my life. It was a dissapointment this time around to find he hadn't changed too much so I let him go. At one time I'd loved him very much but alot of that was about me giving unconditionally and receiving very little in return. That's not acceptable now, so who I was in my thirties is not who I am in my fourties. Hooray! There has been progress!lol

Never the less, it does appear there is still a healing process involved. In the tsunami dream right before I'd escaped I'd seen a couple in a car in an intimate way. There was another intimate sceanario in another dream, but I feel your right in that I used the tsunami as a barrier. There were all "these feelings" and even though I was processing them in waking life I used them to justify my rejection - "he" was still down in the water and I simply crossed a road. I think this is indicative of my having moved on in life but also residule inner anger - I abandoned him back. Along with that I feel there was also fear of needing to free myself (he was controlling) and not getting caught up where I no longer wanted to be.

Considering what you suggested about me perhaps rejecting persons whom display masculine characteristics that I find un-necessary is true. An overtly male trait of my sister's which is difficult to be around was finally adressed after 15 years. The snow on the house dream does indeed convey how I've felt. I go to the inner sanctuary (warm kitchen as nurturance) as a refuge. I couldn't believe how clear this symbology was.

You've given great time to my post. Thank you very much. I've been working on these male issues for a long time and it has not been easy! You've given me new insights and inspiration. If time permitts Gerard may I ask of an interpretation of a dream? It was of my mother and me and I was clutching to her crying and wailing "I am dying".

Thank you, Pj

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 46, Calif

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} F

Re: Re: Re: Waking the Guru

pj,
Thanks so much for your detailed response. Communicating through dream posts and follow-up responses provide value insights to how the dream functions. This forum is a learning experience for all who seek a higher understanding of Self. Your response helps us all in that endeavor.

The Machine World

If we could only get back at our machines when they fail us. But what can we do, throw them away? I think perhaps they should go the path of the Buddhists. We shot em, kill em, and they re-incarnate to a better machine {life}.

The Inner World

The inner anger is often much harder to overcome than the outer. We may feel as if we have overcome the anger but unconsciously we still hold much in. I believe our childhood experiences, especially those of seeking love and acceptance, play a large role in how we address innner anger later in life. That is why I strongly believe in Jung's Individuation Process. It gets to the root of the psychological problem. The choices we make as adults are not merely circumstance, they are influenced by the make-up of our personal evolution. Getting to the roots of 'why we are who we are' will ultimately provide the resources needed to overcome our psychological, physical and spiritual maladies. You are on the right track, continue on your path and with proper discipline you will find that balance and harmony you seek.

If you have another dream you wish to share please do so. If it is about your mother then it could help in understanding those experiences I mentioned from childhood, or at least provide insights to relationships in your personal evolution. Every dream provides new insights to the true Self and helps discover any hidden aspects that contribute to the negatives in life. What is hidden, reveals and the dream reveals all that is within. It sounds kind of cliché but from my experience working with dreams {Jung and Campbell as resources} there is no doubt in my mind that it works.

Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 55 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

Re: Re: Re: Waking the Guru

Justin,
When you’re on a journey, and the end keeps getting further and further away, then you realize that the real end is the journey.
The journey is a lifetime.

Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 55 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

Re: Re: Re: Re: Waking the Guru

Hi Gerard,

And once again, thanks for your reply. When refering to personal evolution are you refering specifically to how our experiences have been colored (particulary as a child) in this one particular life? I have not delved too deeply into Jung but it is obvious that you have spiritual learning and knoweledge.

I am asking about childhood conditioning because of having read about the soul image. Is the "image" simply concepts about our opposite gender as accrued from childhood rather than the memory of the actual soul which I have understood contains both genders from incarnations? I am seeking to understand. I have understood that the soul and personality are polar opposites also and that the marriage of the two lead one to wholeness. Is this where the soul image comes in? As for example in dreams when we dream of our relationship to the opposite sex. Is this indicative of our relationship with our soul and /or of what yet needs to be healed between soul and personality? I'm wondering why it would be gender specific except that to understand the duality of the soul to personality we would need to assocaite ourselves with an opposite. And that perhaps our interaction with the opposite sex (being played out in waking reality especially) affords this opportunity? If so, do we then (as it has been said in many writings) draw to us those persons who fulfill our unconsious needs in order for this to be accomplished? I know this bespeaks of two sets of dualities - the male/female dynamic and then the soul/personality dynamic. It appears that it would be impossible to disassociate the two, and that the opposite gender might serve as an initiator of the integration between soul and personality.

Are the people we are in intimate relationship with living embodiments of those opposite gender characteristics held within the unconscious self? As for example if we get into a relationship with someone who is manipulative and controlling. What does that say about our own inner anima/amimus? And can another individual serve as the means in the manner that we, having unknowingly projected our unconscious needs and characteristics outward, find we must, in order to attain inner integration, dispell this illusion? (of projection).

Yikes! You know it's always easier to blame the other guy. But on "the path" and in taking responsibility for our interaction with someone to begin with, we then ponder what was the lesson - being autonomous beings we wonder "how much of this was yours and how much was mine". The pat answer I think is to chalk it up to karmic circumstance, but the psychological interchange is what I'm striving to understand.

Any thoughts and insights you can give for clairty will be appreciated.

Sincerely, Pj

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 46, Calif

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} F

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