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Church-cult

Hi Gerard,

I had a couple of dreams a couple of weeks ago that really made me think, so I wanted to get some feedback from you. I felt that it was important for me to know what they were really trying to tell me.

These dreams are both about churches.
Background: My parents have different religions, so we did not go to church when I was growing up. But there was a brief time in middle/high school when I was very active with a church (also youth group, volunteer work, etc). My beliefs have changed drastically since then, so going to church now is generally not something that I would participate in.

Dream #1:
I'm at a house that I recognize being familiar with a long time ago. And it has something to do with church, perhaps I went to this house for some kind of youth group meeting. An older woman arrives, who is a fortune teller. We sit in a room and she begins to read my palm, and explains what all the lines mean, etc. She gets to one line and says "You're never going to get married."

Not sure what happens exactly after that, but I go into the different rooms of the house and see clusters of different people. I recongize a man with a group of younger boys, maybe a choir/bible study, but he doesn't acknowledge me. I come back to the woman. B/c there are so many people in the house, I don't want to continue the reading b/c we have no privacy. End of dream.

Dream #2
At my grandmother's house, with a group of my friends. We wake up, and 3 of us decide to drive into town to get lunch. I drive the car and park on the side of a street. I tell the girls that we have to walk through a church to get there. As we are walking through the church, which looks more like a regular building, I explain that this is a very religous community and that people are at the church everyday.

Inside the church, there are people everywhere, like we are on a busy sidewalk in a major city. We get to one point in a hallway, and the people in front of us have stopped walking and are facing us, blocking our path. I turn around, and see that all the people have stopped walking, and that the people have formed a huge circle around us.

Then people start introducing themselves. And all the people who speak, are from a different country, or are not the regular types of people who would really have lived in my grandparent's small town.

My first impression is that these are just nice people who want to recruit new members. I introduce myself to the group, and explain that we want to go eat, and that we will talk to them later, even though I really have no intention of speaking to them seriously.

After lunch, I tell the girls to wait in the car while I go back and speak to them inside. (to be polite) When I come back to the car, I see that there are people speaking to them too.

Now, I am very uneasy about the whole situation. Once we are home, I am convinced that this is a cult (or something worse) and that if we didn't leave my grandmother's house before nightfall, then something bad would happen. I tell everyone that we have to leave, and the dream ends with me frantically packing my things.

Thoughts-
In dream #1, I remember feeling a little out of place inside the house. I was embarrased that I didn't remember where things were, and a little disappointed that no one recognized me. Also, the married thing, is there a symbolic interpretation of this? Or is this just my subconscious fear of not being married surfacing?

In dream # 2, I know I'm afraid of what the church represents. But I'm having trouble figuring out what that is supposed to be. Also, I'm wondering if there is any connection to a dream that I posted before. (The one where I "almost drowned" b/c I was being pulled into a hole in the ocean floor.)

Any thoughts are appreciated!

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 26 - Texas

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Re: Church-cult

dr,
There are efinite similarities of these dreams, and your previous about the hole in the ocean floor - caution about being swept away.

The issue of an established church (following the mainstream) and a cult (where identity of the self is given over) - both reflect issues of self-identity or identity of self.
I suspect that you know that you are your own church (recognition of the self - that the Divine is found in the everyday) but that you are uncertain, indeed suspicious.

Interested in your thoughts,
JC

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 46

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} m

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Brisbane / Australia

Re: Church-cult

drshell,
Here are some of my thoughts to your dreams. I will look at each independently then sum up the whole.

Dream #1 Marriage & Religion

Perhaps the marriage is between you and religion. Like you my spiritual beliefs have changed drastically since I was a youth {a recovering Church of Christ/ Southern Baptist}. While I no longer hold to the religious dogma of the church, my spiritual Self is strong and thriving. Instead of faith I believe in the deeds. WWJD is much more worthy of my time and intellect than that of a patriarchal system that denies the feminine.

The fortune teller is seen as anti-christian. And she is feminine, a part of your feminine Self. Religion is not a true part of the Self, but spirituality is. Perhaps this is her message. Your psyche recognizes the need for spirituality but not religion.

As with all dreams that use the past {I'm at a house that I recognize being familiar with a long time ago} I suggest you investigate that period of time to ascertain if there are any personal experiences that need your attention. I don't see anything within the dream that suggests any real psychic problems but looking back is always beneficial.

Dream #2 Inside the Church

If I understand it correctly, you no longer hold to religious doctrine but have an independent mind of your own when it comes to spirituality. The church in your dream is most likely you, the body is the temple. Having given thought and time to what spirituality means to you, you no longer take religion seriously. Possessing this attitude invites ridicule, you are the one that is different. The reference to your grandparents house may have to do with the attitudes of that generation. You are seen as the cult, and what you have had to do is pack your things and leave that world of your grandparents {the attitudes of their generation}.

Your Thoughts

As I stated I believe the marriage aspect of the first dream has to do primarily with religion. there could be elements of actual marriage but I don't see that as a primary focus of the dream.

Your thoughts about the second dream expounds on the fear of being outside the mainstream of religion. You will face a lot of ridicule from religious types because of your rejection. But what you are rejecting is a dogma of patriarchal man. The soul is feminine and spirituality is a recognition and acceptance of the physical world as it is, not as religion projects it to be. Man rejects nature as being equal. But the soul knows better. We are all a part of the natural world and the inner Self can not divorce itself from this truth. We all must learn to live life as spiritual beings, WWJD/WWBD, and not as a religious type who rejects the natural self. Jesus was a man, masculine, but he lived from his feminine Self {love, compassion, acceptance, turn the other cheek, etc.}. The Buddha recognized the power of the feminine also. There is no rejection of the feminine.

How do you live a spiritual life? There are many spiritual organizations that reject the dogma of the patriarchal church without denying the importance of the spiritual Self. The Unitarian/Universalist church, Unity churches, Religious Science are a few.

But you don't need a church to be spiritual. I believe that creativity is part of our spiritual identities. Going to the mountains, walking along the beaches next to the ocean, being in nature is the most spiritual experience I can think of. Just being there, feeling alive and in accord with nature. Of course to do this on a regular basis requires that the conscious mind is not cluttered with ego stuff. That is where Jung, Campbell, myth and dreams come into play. Resolving the inner crisis is most important when trying to achieve spiritual harmony. If this is not done properly the ego reverts back to its ego ways.

Jesus on the Cross, the death and resurrection is what needs to happen to the ego. Death to the ego-centered life and a resurrection to a life lived from the spiritual Self.

I hope I have helped. Let me know your thoughts and perhaps we can discover more about religion and marriage.

Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 55 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

Re: Re: Church-cult

Thanks Justin and Gerard for your replies.

My current beliefs are very spiritual and have been for some time. (maybe the past 6 years or so) And while I recongize that they could be ridiculed by someone else, I have pretty much been able to deal with it. I sort of think that everyone has their own path, and that if someone chooses to go to church then that's fine. So, it's hard for me to accept that this dream is about me letting go of mainstream religion, or how I'm afraid of what people think, etc. Although, I suppose that it's possible.

(I second everything that you said about being spiritual and think that I do a pretty good job of incorporating it into my life.)

I'm more inclined to think it has more to do with me being afraid of being "sucked" into something and being controlled. In the dream, I was very afraid that the cult was going to sabotage my car overnight, so that we couldn't leave. I even remember thinking that we might be killed.

But if that part was true, then it doesn't really explain the psychic/marriage dream.

Anyway, I appreciate your thoughts, and you both have made me think of other possibilities. I will definitely look into this further.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 26 - Texas

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} F

Re: Re: Re: Church-cult

drshell,
Thanks for the follow-up. It seems you have given much thought to the possibilities of the dream and have an understanding of what they are. The suggestion I gave of the spiritual search is something that I feel is a natural conclusion, given the symbols. Of course if I had known the extent of your spiritual beliefs then I could have eliminated the possibility as being 'THE' focus of the dream.

I have given a lot of thought to asking those who submit dreams to fill out a form page that will require submitters to provide any associations they have to the dream. That will eliminate much speculation on my part. Of course that may deter some from submitting dreams but to be serious about dreams requires more than just asking for an interpretation. The dreamer should keep in mind that this is a process of investigating the psyche and as we all know a good psyche detective owns a very comfortable couch.

Since I now know that you have found a spiritual ground and overcame the religious bias that many associate with spirituality, I can look elsewhere in your dream for possibilities. I will try do so later today.

Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 55 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

Re: Re: Re: Re: Church-cult

Gerard - So sorry about that. The idea of the dream having to do with organized religion never occured to me, so I didn't think to mention what my spiritual beliefs were. I hope that you didn't spend too much time speculating. Regardless, everything you said was very helpful and did open some other doors up for me.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 26 - Texas

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} F

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Church-cult

drshell,
I didn't mean to chastice you for the omission. I was thinking out loud,having given some thought to expediting the process of interpreting symbols. As you know dream interpretation is an art to a great degree and requires much intuitive thinking. The personal aspect of dreams {as opposed to the universal issues} are much more difficult to scrutinize. The more the interpreter knows about the dreamer the more likely a positive interpretation can be given. On the other hand a great many of those who submit dreams know little about the process and probably would be reluctant to provide information. I have to balance that with my desire to give my best when interpreting dreams.

Changing subjects.
You have heard of writer's block. I have discovered there is also such a thing as interpreter's block. My business, the one I make a living from, often requires a lot of my time and energy, so much so that when I put on my intuitive hat I find a lot of resistance. Usually during the months of August and September things slow down and I can spend more time with dreams. This year has been busier than normal. Even when I do get back into the groove it often takes several days for the transition from thinking mold to intuitive mold. Whereas I can look at a dream and give a 'good' account of the possibilities, without the intuitive guide I do not process the dream symbols as positive as I would like. The 'feel' isn't there. For me this illustartes what Campbell said about the path. When one is shackelled to social duty, the intuitive self suffers.
Oh!, to slay the dragon once and for all. Someone lend me a sword.
Gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 55 Murfreesboro, Tn.

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

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