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Bluebeard?

I'm in a silver, grey car, parked outside my parents house. A scary man is approaching my side of the car. I scream and scream, but no one in the car, my father, mother, sister or brother even hear or acknowledges that anything is going on. The man is holding a knife and coming toward my window. I'm still screaming as he is approaching even though it isn't doing any good and I know that my family isn't going to help me. As he approaches nearer and nearer, the glass just somehow, magically dissolves and there is no longer any barrier between me and the man with the knife. I wake up terrified.

May

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 35

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} female

Re: Bluebeard?

I've just very recently finished reading Clarissa Pinkola-Estes' book, 'Women who run with the Wolves'. She gives an excellent interpretation of the Bluebeard myth as well as modern day examples of women's dreams that have the Bluebeard motif in them. One of the 'classic' dreams she makes reference to is of a woman fearing an intruder entering her house, when she picks up the phone, and tries to dial emergency help, she feels someone breathing down her neck, and can't get through the line for help, because the intruder is right there with her, and she wakes up terrified.

There is something about this dream that seems similar to that, the fact that the glass dissolves, so suddenly and strangely, and there is no longer any barrier between outside/inside. I think the example of Dr. Estes had two themes: 1. the 'external' intruder becomes 'internal', and 2. the woman in danger is trying to get help, but for whatever reason, the line is dead, or no one is listening to her, can't help her. There is also an element of urgency in the dream and a sense of 'it's too late', once the dreamer realizes the intruder/predator is inside.

Just some food for thought. Oh and another thought....

What about the relationship between the Bluebeard Myth/the internal predator and Patriarchy? Not Classical Greek Patriarchy, perhaps as it was intended to be, but the patriarchy that Marion Woodman discusses?

Any thoughts on these themes are very welcomed.

Many thanks,
May

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 35

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Bluebeard?

I am also intereted in Fairy Tale archetypes, although their 'qualities' do change through the centuries and are dependent on contemporaneous ideology/zeitgeit.

e.g. Brothers Grimm, Perrault and Hans Christian Andersen all 'retold' fairy tales and thus changed their meaning/interpretation.
Many western fairy tales came to us from the Middle East (Thousand and One Nights) via Russia.
They were originally an oral tradition and it is only when they acmeto be written down (around the time of teh aforementioned writers) that they were deemed to have acquired 'authenticity'.

Of course, only the children of wealthy parents could originally read so the readership was rather limited.

As Shakwespeare (and others) utilie intertextuality and plagiarism to write and extend their works, they also inlfluenced/were influenced by contemporary socio-political culture.

e.g. King Lear. Various incarnations of his 'history'. various incarnations writen by Shakespeare.

Shakespeare was paid to produce a certain quota of work, much lke modern day authors, teh most obvious example being JK Rowling who was contracted toproduce a quota of harry potter novels by X date.

Another example of myths/tales taking on different qualties/meanings is that of King Arthur at one time beliigerent hero and another courtly lover.

Modern feminist interpretations/retelling of fairy tales include works by Marina Warner and Angela Carter.

My feeling about your dream is that the glass has acted as a lens, perhaps distorting yuor view of the 'male' side of your character, which you perhaps viewed as negative and thus avoided.

Silver/grey car. Grey can make us anonymous, silver can represent a mercurial nature amongst other things.

Mercury (as in Roman god)represents communication and traditionally was regarded as hermaphroditic.

Was your car/your shell representative of neutrality, of a desire not to assert yourself/your sexuality, of wanting to be protected by your family, feeling as vulnerable/innocent/neutral as a child?

Or does the male in your dream perhaps represent a real male, whom you may have at first trusted and now see as a threat.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 39, UK

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Femaile

Re: Bluebeard?

Also I recently had a dream (white corridor etc, posted on this site) in which seemingly impenetrable glass, just implodes/disappears without me kowing how/why.

There is a male figure present in that dream too. A man whom is preventing me from entering the glass door. He disappears and then a huge hole appears in the top of the door.

See Justins thoughts about my dreamand see if theyhave any resonance with yours.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 39, UK

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Femaile

Re: Re: Bluebeard?

Hi S,

Thank you so much for your reply!! You know it is so interesting, after I had that dream about my Fairy Tale covered stairs that I couldn't climb up, I felt like maybe Fairy Tales and Myths are not the way to go. I actually do have a copy of One Thousand and One Nights, that I have been meaning to read. Also, less than a week ago I went out and bought Grimms' Fairy Tales, as well as Hans Christian Andersens' and Angela Carter's book and I really did get the sense that these versions must have been totally watered down and made palatable and therefore relatively (sorry for such a harsh term) worthless in terms of what they have to offer as defined by author's like Clarissa Pinkola-Estes and other Jungian analysts. I am grieved about this loss of deep wisdom that has been so distorted and covered up over time....perhaps my dream was saying something about that too. Carter's book has some hope. I had been planning on reading Thousand and One Nights, I won't put it off any longer.

Your ideas about the glass acting as a lens is very helpful...also the ideas about Mercury.

I think the car may have represented something close to a house, my self, and I think the inner family as represented by my real family may be abandonning me???? In the dream I scream alot and they are all just staring straight ahead as if nothing is happening. They are ignoring me and completely oblivious to the fact that I'm about to be stabbed.

Also, the glass barrier suddendly dissolving made me think of betrayal. Its as if the glass was also supposed to be protecting me, and it was supposed to have this solid function. The guy didn't even have to break the glass....the glass made it that easy for him to get to me...it not only didn't serve as a barrier, it dissolved itself..even the glass abandonned me as did my family...

I am not sure what the man represents. In the dream he didn't represent any particular man I know. Perhaps I did feel let down by someone in particular. I thought he might represent the inner predator or Bluebeard since the glass so easily let him into the car.... Maybe he represents a distorted way of viewing the masculine side of myself...although he is so different from other men I dream about who also represent my masculine side, like my husband, dream lover, male friends, father-in-law, etc, father, brother. This guy had a knife and he had it out for me and I was so vulnerable that even with my family around and with glass windows he got to me so easily...which is what makes me think of Bluebeard again.

I checked out your dream and all the following posts. I think it is interesting that the glass in your dream is kind of similiar to mine. I tried to open the link you posted about liquid glass but couldn't open it. The interesting thing about your dream is that you were outside of your home, and the door man was standing at the doorway of your apartment not letting you in and then the glass shattered and froze in space......it seems almost like the reverse of mine.

Let me know what you think.

Best regards and thank you so much for your reply and new ideas
May

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 35

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Re: Bluebeard?

Hi S,


Here is a great link:

http://www.mouseplanet.com/fairytales/ft011011.htm

It's about how Fairy Tales have become so watered-down that they almost totally lose their original meaning. The author of this website. Dr. Lee gives an example of Sleeping Beauty, among other Fairy Tales. In the original story, Sleeping Beauty fell dead from the prick in her finger and was raped. She awoke because her babies suckling from her sucked the splinter from her finger. She was a princess, and the King who raped her had a wife who was jealous of her and tried to kill her kids. The author of the website has other stories on his site that I haven't had a chance to read yet.

So different from Grimms' and the other's tales.

Best,
May

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 35

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Re: Re: Re: Bluebeard?

Sorry, the author's name is Dr. Kevin Yee, not Lee.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 35

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Re: Bluebeard?

Thanks May

I will have a look at that later.
As I was drifing off to sleep last night I was thinking about fairytales and how many of them inlcude an interdiction/transgression i.e. something is forbidden and then someone goes and does something anyway, depiste it being forbidden.

This is apparent in Bluebeard.

Do you feel that something is 'forbidden' to you in your life, that you have transgressed/incurred the wrath of others or even yourself?

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 39, UK

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Femaile

Re: Bluebeard?

If you just type in the address re 'is glass a liquid or a solid?' it should come up.
I found it thus - I typed 'Is glass a liquid or a solid?' into Google and it came up.

The corridor in my dream is not representative of my 'real' home - looks nothing like it.

My view of my 'home' in the dream began with a view towards the door and adjacent door in the long wall to the left from the other end of the corridor and then suddenly I was stood in the open doorway of this 'home' rather reluctantly peeked inside and thought 'no thanks' whilst looking at the other door from the 'home door'. From this persepective the 'other' door was on my right.

When it imploded I was stood the other side of the 'other' door, still in the corridor, but facing my 'home' and the 'other'' door was again to my left.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 39, UK

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Re: Bluebeard?

Hi S,

Thank you for your reply.

I think in terms of religion I do feel like I am trying to find my life path, and having been raised within very conservative, patriarchal traditions, I am struggling to free myself of that. That's one thing. (Transgression) Also, somehow, I always attract fundamentally religious friends. I don't know why. So, even though they are of different religions from what I was raised in, they are still fundamental. And I'm trying to find different friends.

I'm also trying to be myself more and be more intuitive. I'm trying to spend more time focusing on my inner life and not my outer life exclusively. Maybe there are taboos against that, against using our intuition, against being our selves, against connecting with the Wild Woman, that Women who Run with the Wolves talks about.

I'm also newly married, to a spouse who is not someone my family would have chosen for me, and believe me they would have loved to choose for me! That's a huge transgression.

In terms of the Forbidden, I think of the Red Shoes myth in women who run with the wolves, again. The little girl who hand-crafted her own red shoes, a reflection of her own handiwork, her own creativity, her own values, her own handmade life. With religion, I feel like I am transgressing if I explore different religions from my family or friends. I feel almost guilty taking so much time away from my outer life to learn about my dreams, but I tell myself it is worth it. Good to keep balance though.

Thanks for the food for thought. I will definetely also keep it in my mind as more insights unfold.

Best,
May

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 35

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Re: Bluebeard?

Hi S,

Were you inside the door of the other apartment, the apartment that was not your home, while the glass of your home was breaking?

I did some reading about glass. It has characteristics that make it different from a solid. It is not quite a solid. It's molecules are arranged more differently, I think they are not as stable. This made me think of a popular experiment in quantum mechanics that demonstrated a principle in quantum physics that actually went against one of Newton's Laws. The experiement was when scientists watched two types of particles, one weak and the other high energy dancing in front of a solid barrier. The high energy particles were able to get to the other side. The weak ones were not supposed to, but they did, to the surprise of the scientists. It was concluded that solid matter is not so solid as it seems, and that the nature of reality as we understand it is less like Newton's and more like Buddhist ideas of the non-solidity, impermanence of the physical world which we collectively understand and refer to as 'reality'.

Hum, Very Interesting....

Best,
May

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 35

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Bluebeard?

Hi May

I posted a link to a site about glass - liquid or solid on my dream posating (corridor/glass doors).

The glass to my apartment did not break, it was the other door that broke. Although I had been stood in theopen doorway of my apartment, when I viewed the other door as it was breaking , I was stood outside my apartnent in teh corridor, looking at the other door to my left, not my apartment door which was at the end of the corridor facing me. The otehr door was in the left hand wall. Also the other door semed liek an entrance to a commercial premises, possibly a nightclub. I recall a feeling of the club being underground in a dark basement at night, although from whwre I was standing in teh corridor everything was bright and white.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 39, UK

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

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