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Gossip Ancient rites& The Divine Liturgy, repeating theme of falling of stairs, and Patriarchy

My friend J., a petite blonde and born-again Christian missionary and her husband whose name when translated means Paracletus Caliph are discussing my marriage with the goal of establishing theirs as better, and showing me I got the short end of the stick compared to them. J points out the beautiful and expensive teakwood imported furniture her home is furnished in, that she got for her wedding gift, of which I have none.

In my husband's defense, I show them the Aquamarine Ring that my husband spent an entire months salary on. J's husband asked the cost of the ring. I said, 650. I also point out something else wonderful that my husband did for me as proof against their charges against him, I forget what it is now.

I go to a coffee shop and sit at a long table, like a picnic table. It is night. And dark. A group of friends come. I am upset with J and her husband. My friends tell me that J and her husband belong to a group which represents 77 percent of the total of people who have evil intentions and wish to sabotage my marriage to my husband. They are jealous of me because they do not have it as good as I do and are trying to breed a sense of discontent within me. These friends are wise and loyal. We make plans to meet later.


Later, it is day and I'm sitting in a Cafe at a small corner table with a laptop writing something very important. Two of my friends, one of them R, I know in real life. They ignore me and act like they don't know me. Another friend, this time a man, shows up. He gives me a message about meeting later. These friends are telling me important things and trying to help me.

I am in a kitchen that looks exactly like my mom's kitchen in my childhood home. I have a photographic memory so there is a memory photo of my mother's kitchen suspended in space and I'm comparing my friend's kitchen to my mom's kitchen. My mom has a tall white space heater in the highest part of the cupboard where it can be of no use. Both my mom and my friend also have their microwaves in the highest part of the cupboard where no one can reach them.

I am now in a Coptic Church. My mother is sitting in the pew next to me dressed in furs. The Ancient Rites have begun. The liturgy is being recited.
I am bored out of my mind and leave.

In the adjoining space next to the church where I walk out is a huge two or three story library. I have dreamt of this particular library many, many times before. It is a familiar place. At the stairs between the ground floor (which is one level above teh basement but not the first floor yet) a woman sits on the first step and is reciting a Fairy Tale. It is one that I know well, heard before, but I cannot place it in my mind, nor recall it or it's title.

I attempt to claim the stairs to reach a higher level. The entire staircase is covered with soft-cover bound books- mostly Fairy Tales, almost all of them. My shoes provide me with no traction against the slippery covers and try as I might I slip and slide dangerously, unable to ascend the stairs and terrified that I will fall and hurt my self badly.

I get away from the stairs and go down another narrow low ceiling corridor where my friend M, A Seventh Day Adventist Missionary, is seated. He indicates his wife's empty chair. He wants me to take her place as his wife. I decline. I walk further in this narrow low-ceilinged hall in the back of the library. I find W, a Greek Orthodox acquaintence. I ask him the way back to the Coptic Church. He leads me part way-to an empty space in front of a door that leads underground to an underground crypt. The door is brown, wooden, with black iron handles and trim and a round arch shape.

I see an old man and ask him if that door is the entrance to the church and if I may enter it. I ask for the entrance of the church- the side that will not open into the Altar, The Holy of Holies where the Priest is conducting the Ancient Rites, the side where women are not allowed to enter. *

He indicates that door. After I pass the thresh-hold, there is a modern day security device constructed to screen out anything that may harm security. I pass under it and there is a long line of people in front of me.

I search for my mother. She is gone.

The Ancient Rites are concluded. The Divine liturgy has been recited and ended. Sins have been forgiven, confessions heard and the Wine and the Bread have been transformed into the Body and Blood of The Christ, the Messiah, in the stomachs of the believers absolving them of their worthless Adamic State of Original Sin.

I join the existing crowds of believers, one of them is a group of very catty, cliquish, snobby girls all decked out in expensive fox and mink furs, jewels, the latest fashions. They are maliciously gossiping about out-members not in their little exclusive clique. They don't care who hears them. They are extremely arrogant. Typical, I think to myself. They are unredeemable and sooo snobby! I wake up.


* It is forbidden for women to enter the sacred place where the Holy of Holies is symbolized and a site for a holy re-enactment- where the Priest as a stand-in for the Christ/Messiah engages the Ancient Rites and Divine Liturgy to transform grape juice('wine') and bread into the living Body and Blood of Christ that wipes out the Adamic Original Sinful Nature. The Feminine is wholly excluded from participating in the Patriarchal Rite. Even the 'Alter Boys', who in the Coptic religion symbolize the disciples of Christ, must all be men. Those who assist the Priest of course, then are also men. Women have their own section outside and away from the Altar, located in what was once considered the Holy of Holies). They are mere spectators in the transformation. Even Jesus' best friend Mary Magdalene, as well as his Mother, Mary, and the Mother of his disciple Elizabeth are in no way included in this ritual, or valued or allowed to participate in this patriarchial Rite of Divine Transformation. Sadly, the Feminine is excluded, and also considered and unpure, polluting element to be kept out of this Holy Sanctuary at all costs. The Orthodox Christian Churches brough a Patriarchial dimension to Christianity as did the Doctrine of Paul which states that women are not to speak or teach in the Church. This means no participation and total exclusion. It is on this basis that historically women have been excluded from participation in Orthodoxy, whether Christian, Jewish or Islamic.

Why were the Gnostic, Essences and Nag Hammadi aspects of Christianity formally excluded? Did they make a space for femininity????

How can their be true transformation and healing for the human Psyche/Soul when it is subjected to being split from it's femininity, then having that femininity rejected, despised, marginalized?

It was two women who notified the disciples and the early Christian community of the removal of the stone from before the tomb entrance and of the angel's message that 'Christ has Risen' (is is chanted only be orthodox priests and deacons in the Mass and never with the participation of any females....) and 'is at the Right Hand of the Father'- they were the one's who told about the ressurection. Without them the disciples would probably have lost hope and there wouldn't be much going on in the way of christianity.

How can the feminine be so disavowed, excluded, marginalized and not given a symbolic role to play in the transformation of the body/blood of Christ? Coptic and other Orthdox Christians believe that the Mass and what the Priest prays makes this transformation come about. It has to be a man in that role.

And finally... Where is the MOther???

Why is the venerated Saint Mary, Holy and Pure Mother of Jesus Christ not allowed a role in The Divine Rites and Liturgy? Is she automatically also considered polluted then, a mere female who cannot enter the sanctuary? Why don't the Orthodox Religions, including Islam who also shares the same beliefs about Mary as do Orthodox Christians, have a participatory role and symbol for her in the Mass itself??Why doesn't she get to be physically represented in the form of a physical FEMALE BODY???

Are there even any religions that FULLY include the Feminine and the Mother???

Sorry for preaching to the Choir. :) ,

May

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 35

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Gossip Ancient rites& The Divine Liturgy, repeating theme of falling of stairs, and Patriarchy

Hi May,

Wow ,,,, a lot has happened by the sound of it.

I think this dream speaks of deep question of beliefs, symbols + images of the feminine and so much more. You are getting the hang of Jungian thought, so you will have fertile ground in this dream.

The dream both reveals + contrasts the way things are ,,, and the way things really are (the True Nature of things).
It warrants hours of thought and contemplation and its fuller meaning may take some time to unfold (as is so for many dreams).
I will just mention a few points that got my attention:

- kitchen; a place of alchemy, were our 'food' is prepared ,,, your Mother's kitchen ,,,, our Mother who prepares all for us

familiar place - library; repository of knowledge; there are things in the collective unconscious
a woman reciting fairy tales,,,, you know it but can't recall it ,,,,
the fairy tales pave the way to 'higher knowledge' however your currrent shoes (the role you are in now does not help you to get to where this knowledge is.

To my knowledge the Gnostic Gospels did include the feminine - why were they 'forgotten'; why was the feminine excluded ? ,,,, I have my opinion however it is not academically or historically based so it is better not written. You'll need to research and decide for yourself - maybe let us know what you find.

Suggestions? see my other post about suggested reading + fairy tales +++
Do you notice the change in theme of the dream?

Justin

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: Brisbane Australia 47

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} M

Re: Re: Gossip Ancient rites& The Divine Liturgy, repeating theme of falling of stairs, and Patriarc

Hi Justin,

Yes, this dream certainly contains a lot!

One change of theme I noticed from this dream and other past dreams I have been having is the change of how I perceive my husband. In this dream, I am defending him, and pointing out how great he is. In past dreams I felt he let me down. Does this speak to how I really feel about my animus? Although in a dream after this, the cheating theme returned. And in a dream after that, my husband was helping me with something, but wasn't entirely successful. Perhaps this dream is also telling me how I really feel about my husband in real life? (Is that a Jungian interpretation?)

I agree that this is a 'big dream'. I think it is not only about masculinity/femininity balancing and integration, or only about spirituality, but that it may be laying a foundation of deeper guidance about my life mission and destiny,whether that be work, vocation, creative endeavors, career path, as well as spiritual choices. Don't ask me where I got that idea...its just there.

In real life, I am having issues with religions when they become intolerant, exclusivist, patriarchial or violent toward either their own members, or members who wish to leave them, or people who are originally or never members. I am trying to free myself of that and keep ending up attracting lots of friends from groups who seem to have those characteristics. I have been having this problem for years and really wish to come to a resolution of it. Also, the environment I live in has a very polarized, us against them mentality, and that really bothers me too.

Another aspect of the symbolism is that most of the feminine symbols were underground, or unconscious...my mother in the church, the church itself, the gossiping girls, the furs, even the fairy tales and the woman reading them. The unconscious, the psyche, are also feminine symbols as is night, darkness, the hallway, the low-ceilinged corridor and the arched doorway. In Jungian thought, isn't the masculine animus supposed to be the unconscious masculine aspect in women while feminine aspects are manifested in a woman's personality, or way of being in the world, with her animus to bridge the gap between the unconscious and the ego desires? I'm very new to this kind of thinking and still trying to learn. I'm just wondering why the feminine is so buried.

Also, the kitchen I was in was not a warm, nurturing place. The heater was out of the way. Even the microwave, an artifical form of heating, was out of reach. It was not an inviting, nourishing place. Also, the fact that my friend's kitchen was as uninviting as my mother's kitchen, is sending me the message of paying attention, that this coldness is doubled.

In the dream I was very careful not to break the rules. I know I wasn't allowed in the Altar area, and even though my friend W. lead me to the door, I was extra over cautious to ask the old man again if that door was alright for me to go in. I didn't want to break any religious taboos. I didn't want to violate the sacred rule of entering as woman into a male-only designated space. And this worries me. How am I to overcome patiarchy, to break the glass-ceiling, to be an empowered woman, if I am afraid to dare to walk into an all-male space and say, 'hi there, I'm here.' What are they going to do? Or maybe as you wrote, this is the way things are, and the way things Really are. Is it how they are meant to be?

Somewhere I read that either Freud or Jung or someone said that issues of spirituality and religion are really issues of sexuality, and that issues of sexuality are really issues of spirituality and religion.

Am also very worried about my slippery shoes that couldn't help me get out of the unconscious, underground part of the library, and bring up the knowledge I had, and climb the stairs to consciousness. I don't know exactly what is going on with that, what role I'm living in my life that is holding me back, but clearly there is something there.

Also, there are various symbols of wealth, like the expensive teakwood furniture, which in the dream I could care less if I have it or not, and the gossiping girls in the church who are very wealthy and decked out in the most expensive dress, furs, jewelery etc, but who I think are just not worth being friends with. Am I maybe not making the most of my 'inner wealth', I ask myself.

Also,the symbolisim of the Aquamarine ring. I think it is supposed to signify fidelity, commitment, trust and happiness in marriage and was used by sailors as a talisman to help them come home safely after navigating dangerous waters.....could it be the same..;a gift from my animus saying that all will be well with us and a lucky charm? Also the symbolism of the ring is quite similiar. And, in the dream, my husband made a huge financial sacrifice to give me that ring, that he valued giving me a gift that would reflect his love for me as well as romantic feelings, rather than a gift that was dead wood (a symbol for lack of feeling...???), and a show for his ego, the ring is the sign of love and warmth and feelings, while the furniture is more like for show. But then I think of men who cheat on their wives and give their mistresses expensive jewelery to impress them and their wives expensive jewelery to not suspect anything, but the symbolism of the ring wasn't like that.

This is only the beginning. There is a lot more to this dream. Thank you so much for your responses,
May

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 35

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

Re: Gossip Ancient rites& The Divine Liturgy, repeating theme of falling of stairs, and Patriarchy

'I got the short end of the stick ' The abusive marriage

'Another friend, this time a man, shows up. He gives me a message about meeting later. These friends are telling me important things and trying to help me.'

the truth I needed to hear about my ex-husband



'In the adjoining space next to the church where I walk out is a huge two or three story library. I have dreamt of this particular library many, many times before. It is a familiar place. At the stairs between the ground floor (which is one level above teh basement but not the first floor yet) a woman sits on the first step and is reciting a Fairy Tale. It is one that I know well, heard before, but I cannot place it in my mind, nor recall it or it's title.

I attempt to claim the stairs to reach a higher level. The entire staircase is covered with soft-cover bound books- mostly Fairy Tales, almost all of them. My shoes provide me with no traction against the slippery covers and try as I might I slip and slide dangerously, unable to ascend the stairs and terrified that I will fall and hurt my self badly.'

The stairs out of the abusive marriage, in my case higher education, symbolised by books, leaving the country for a year to do a second master's and get away from him, and Fairy tales, psychic truths....also the fears that 'I will fall and hurt myself'

But I didn't fall. I made it up the stairs......

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 38

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes


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