Hello,

This is my first post here. I am female and am age 47. I journal all remembered dreams and have an interest in understanding a Jungian perspective on dreams.

6/28/08 BARACK AND HILLARY

Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are themselves in this dream. They are standing together in a large interior windowless room, like one finds at convention centers, although they are not directly beside one another. Barack Obama is situated left of center while Hillary Clinton is situated right of center in this room. They are in conversation with others around them. This is a comfortable setting.

I now see 2 children (genders unknown) separately entering this room from a centrally positioned doorway at the back of the room, and each is running around this room like small children do but they are running around independently of one another and in different directions with one spiraling to the left and the other spiraling to the right.

I know that both children are age 4. One is related to Barack Obama and, in the dream, is his own child while the other is related to Hillary Clinton and, in the dream, is her grandchild. Each child is having fun running around as if making large circles around his/her relative and whoever is standing beside them. While each senator is preoccupied in conversation with others beside them, I (as dream observer) notice that both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are keeping one eye on the movements of his/her respective child relative.

BACKGROUND

The day before the dream, my boyfriend and I took a much needed “play” day where we allowed the Inner Child/Children to go have fun, something we haven't done in quite awhile.

The night before the dream I had watched a news clip of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton standing beside one another in the town of Unity, New Hampshire, USA. Each senator had received exactly 107 votes in the primary election in this town and both came here now to broadcast the unification of the democratic party with Hillary urging the people who had voted for her to back Barack in the November presidential election.

2 days before the dream I had read a description of the DIVINE CHILD in excerpts from Prema Scott Key’s book, THE JOURNEY TO RADIANT HEALTH:

“The physical body represents the merging of the emotional and mental bodies, the heart and mind, and masculine and feminine energy. It is the transcendence of duality that places the physical body at the crown of The Sacred Trinity of Radiant Health (see page 60). The resulting state of wholeness leads to the emergence of the Divine Child.”

“The Divine Child is supremely flexible, adapting to the movement and flow of any interaction, event or circumstance. Its actions always arise from the heart of pure awareness, and it has the strength and confidence to trust and follow its own Divine guidance, especially when the message opposes protocol or etiquette or what is contrary to what appears to be the right action.”

Etymologically, Hillary is a variant of the English Hilary which means “joyful, happy”. Hillary is considered to be an example of a “Unisex Emotion” name. Then there is the Latin hilarius linking to the English word hilarious. And Barack’s name from either the Swahili or Arabic Semetic root is translated as “blessed”. So, I find these to be names which can reflect the nature of a Divine Child.

COMMENTS

I can see the dream reflecting the 3 prior waking life events. I often have dreams with 4 characters, and the added detail of the 2 children being age 4 is further interesting. I am curious as to the significance of the relationships, where one kid is a child and the other a grandchild (of the senators).

The fact that in waking life Obama and Clinton were rivals but are now allies seems to ask for a similar transformation in my own life. With whom or with what aspect of myself have I been fighting or competing which I should simply embrace?

I can see this dream portraying the theme of the integration of the psyche in many ways: the number 4: children age 4 and the 4 dream characters, the uniting in the room of gender: male/female, gender qualities: male = mental body and female = emotional body, male occupying the left/yin side of room and female occupying right/yang side of room, the bringing together of race: black/white.

It seems that the dream is presenting the importance of allowing the inner child to play and not to be totally focused on other “serious” matters. The spiraling/circling actions of the children bring to mind a state of evolution/progress.

I have been reading about THE SELF on your site and have been thinking that perhaps Obama and Clinton (given their long battle vying for the democratic nomination) are representative of my own controlling nature in regards to the mind (male Barack) and to the emotions (female Hillary)? This race was a race for just one person to be in control. Even amidst defeat, Hillary was reluctant to renounce her position which can relate to my own lack of desire to surrender the ego.

I think the final scene is important where the 2 senators do nothing to stop the movement of the children running around them in the room but are instead simply aware of and tolerant of their presence.

I welcome any insights and/or differing perspectives.

Thanks,
Susanna

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 47 in Florida

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} female

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? 1st post

Susanna,
I'll provide my thoughts to your dream later today. Social duty calls {work with a workout before hand}.

This should be interesting. Not only from the dream title but the fact you are knowledgeable in 'Jungian psyche'. And it seems very familiar with his mystical side {which I am}. I will read with interest your impressions of the dream {having quickly glanced at your impressions in this post}.

gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 58 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Susanna,
Your interpretation/explanation of the dream does seem to fit. Coming together of the opposites, resolving inner conflicts, seeking wholeness {the number 4}, all of which are a therapeutic function dreams seek to convey.

As for the distinction between the child of Obama and the grandchild of Hillary, my impressions were the feminine being wiser than the royal masculine {as opposed to the rogue masculine negative qualities}. No gender of the children is provided, so the role of the parent/grandparent transfers to the child. And although you hold both of these icons in high esteem the collective unconscious sees the higher Self as being feminine {creativity and spirituality being the two primary representations of the feminine}. I Jungian psyche that is true.

I see the number two as the opposites. And eventually unity of those opposites. Add the primitive mind from which the archetypes flow {two aspects- personal unconscious/collective unconscious} and you have 4. Wholeness.

So we know what the intent is, of the dream, and in your waking life. But where are you in that search? There we can look to the waking life for evidence of creativity and spirituality. Have you fully incorporated those aspects as the lead in your life? Or is it still a work in progress? There are the many levels to enlightenment.

"not stopping the movement of the children". The developing spirit is free to express itself as a child would express them self. Natural and true, ego not controlling, the metaphysical condition in its infancy yet full of wisdom.

That sounds very positive to me. What are your creative endeavors. I will assume your spiritual beliefs are beyond the confines of any 'normal' organized religion since you are aware of that 'Divine Child'. Jung, and Joseph Campbell, referred to this as 'gnosis, hidden knowledge. Hidden aspects of the psyche within the unconscious, the secrets being of the archetypes which inform the senses beyond the normal range of knowledge.

There is another aspect of dreams. They often provide clues to the personality of the dreamer. The fact your dream plays Obama and Hillary in a positive light offers evidence to your thinking. I often see telling evidence of personality in dreams and that can be beneficial in discovering causation of behavior of the individual. So much in dreams that isn't always understood.

So much about ourselves that is not understood, until we look inward and make those discoveries of self truths. The TRUE SELF.

gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 58 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Thank you Gerard for your comments.

You write:

“So we know what the intent is, of the dream, and in your waking life. But where are you in that search? There we can look to the waking life for evidence of creativity and spirituality. Have you fully incorporated those aspects as the lead in your life? Or is it still a work in progress? There are the many levels to enlightenment.

What are your creative endeavors. I will assume your spiritual beliefs are beyond the confines of any 'normal' organized religion since you are aware of that 'Divine Child'.”

Reply:

I am on a strong spiritual path especially since my divorce 5 years ago but my creativity (sewing/quiltmaking) has stalled since then. I live in a community of like-minded people and recently became certified as a Spiritual Healer. The course of my life has changed to one of being of service to others which I never ever had imagined doing but which turns out to be very satisfying. I believe that the direction of my spiritual path will present to me a different avenue of creativity. Also, I see my present “lack” of creativity (in relation to a large creative outlet while married) as a reflection of a lack of security and empowerment — and that is a work of change in progress. Barack and Hillary are very much empowered and secure individuals, so can be role models in that regard. It is also a need for me to let the child within out to play a whole lot more often. I can tend to be too seriously minded which both candidates (as portrayed in conversation with others) can also be.

I am also committed to following the maxim KNOW THYSELF. This is definitely the eye-opener since when you look honestly at yourself, you are able to then see more objectively surrounding situations. And as I ponder this further I can’t help but also see another level to this dream of mirroring a particular division in the community in which I live, kinda like (at first) the 2 opposing camps represented by Barack and Hillary within the ONE Democratic party...

I like what you write about discovering personality clues of the dreamer according to the positive or negative light portrayed in the dream. It may also present at WHAT level the dreamer is coming from. For example, in waking life, I very much dislike politics and have not dreamt of political figures before and could not hold any intelligent political conversation. And regarding the candidates, I did vote for Barack Obama because I feel he is the right candidate but I personally distrust Hillary due to my gut feelings regarding her personality. None of this showed up in the dream. And it didn’t because that evidently wasn’t important. I feel one key of why I had this dream is my witnessing on tv the UNIFYING gesture attempt shown by the 2 Democrats. Unity is a transcendent function. I see this as presenting a focus of where I must be in regards to encounters in my immediate “world”. Dreams are such wonderful teachers.

Thanks for the input,
Susanna

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 47 in Florida

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} female

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? yes

Susanna,
Sometimes it is difficult to 'dis-associate' real people from the metaphorical references they represent in dreams, and to understand how they apply to the dreamer's life. Barack and Hillary were opposites yet in the end they came together in unity. That seems to apply to your life, spirituality and creatively, if not physically.

It may be significant in the words you used to describe the two in your opening sentence, "Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are themselves in this dream". That could easily be misconstrued as factual, a statement the dream is actually addressing Obama and Clinton as themselves rather than as metaphorical representations of some aspect of your psyche. But for anyone who is Jungian there is the knowledge that such representations is always about the aspects of the dreamer and seldom about other people, rather than associations to those people or as metaphorical references. The real significance though may be with 'who Barack and Hillary are' in within your psyche. Barack is black and could very well represent the unconscious. Hillary is feminine and could represent that aspect of your psyche. Dreams do have a way of using symbols in many different aspects to address the dreamer's emotional/psychological condition.

You also used the words gut feelings' to describe your impressions of Hillary. One aspect of dream interpretation is the 'intuitive' feelings in a dream. As hard as it can be to understand the language of dreams {metaphor and symbols in most instances} it is the intuitive impressions from a dream that ultimately provides solid insights to the dream scenario. 'Gut feelings' are seldom wrong and I find that to be very true in my interpretation of dreams.

As for the subject of numbers/ They are always significant. When I see the number 4 I will first associate it with a need/desire for wholeness in the dreamer's life, often a conscious quest for wholeness. Numbers are used in dreams are often used to associate the dreamer's emotional condition as well as a guide to determining what was the original affective agent to that emotional condition. A good example is Aleks' dream a cobra becoming a kitten. The opening dream language points to an age during her life {in this dream i am younger than i am now , i must be around 7 or 8 } which in fact is an actual representation of her age that depicts when the emotional stress began {or her earliest impressions of the emotional stimulus}. From my experience in interpreting dreams I have found the following statement which I stated in my response to be true; "Most often when a dream opens with {or even includes else where in the dream} language about childhood homes or experiences at a younger age, those dreams are actually addressing true experiences from that period of time of the dreamer's life". Her follow-up response verified this: "i had really bad experience with my father during all my life mostly - started when i was 6 or 7". There are particulars in dreams {as Jung surmised long before I witnessed them to be true} that can be counted on as constants and numbers seem to be one such particular aspect of dreams. Whether it be age of experiences or symbolic language describing emotional attitudes and or patterns.

But caution should be used when interpreting dreams. Looking 'too deep' into the possible associations of symbols and metaphors can lead you away from the central message of the dream. Your statement in your response, "Etymologically, Hillary is a variant of the English Hilary which means “joyful, happy”. Hillary is considered to be an example of a “Unisex Emotion” name. Then there is the Latin hilarius linking to the English word hilarious. And Barack’s name from either the Swahili or Arabic Semetic root is translated as “blessed”. So, I find these to be names which can reflect the nature of a Divine Child" may be drawing too many conclusions to the possibilities of the associations to dream symbols {people}. It is true the dream will use archetypal associations but those associations have to be universally understood by the collective psyche {we would all need to all the associations}. Whereas it may fit with the dream language the intent of the dream may not have any real associations with those conclusions. To interject too much into the possible explanation of the symbols may lead you away from the true intent of the dream.

But don't let that discourage you from interpreting your dreams. Better to look too deep into the possibilities than not to consider them at all.

gerard

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 58 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes