Power of Dreams/MDS Dream Forum

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Jan 22, 2011 - 3:42PM

64.126.87.221

Four Fish

I am on a wooden pier at the edge of the sea. I have four large fish from the deep sea before me. I know that I have just assimilated or taken in the life force from these fish (without physcially eating them). Kneeling there on the boardwalk with the bodies of the fish still before me, I have a feeling of wonder or concern over having done so...like, I am inwardly considering or asking, "Was it okay for me to have done this?"

Kristi

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 44, Kansas

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

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Jan 22nd, 2011 - 3:42 PM

Jerry {Host & WebMaster MDS Dream Forum}

Jan 23, 2011 - 9:28AM

68.52.102.205

Re: Four Fish

Kristi,
We know Jung's take on the number 4 is a symbol for wholeness. Let's look at the symbol of the fish I believe will fit with you and your dream.

A fish is a common symbol of fertility, which in psychological terms means (a promise of) personal growth.

If the fish is in the sea, the sea may symbolize the unconscious, the fish unconscious urges (over-eating, etc.)

According to Jung, fish, being cold blooded and primitive creatures, may symbolize a deep level of unconsciousness.

'Fishes and snakes are favourite symbols for describing psychic happenings or experiences that suddenly dart out of the unconscious and have a frightening or redeeming effect' (Jung).

A fish is a symbol of Christ and may therefore function psychologically as a symbol of your true self. This is an 'archetypal' image.

Knowing much about your journey I can see where all of the above would fit. In you are in the process of assimilating your life. You have discovered your life forces is indeed spiritual {the archetypal Christ}. It is not a merely 'physical' thing, it is a spiritual endeavor {physically eating them}. In examining your life you are examining the 'bodies in your life' {as well as the 'body of the archetypal Christ}.

The question, '"Was it okay for me to have done this?". For some reason I get the impression this relates to some event or experience in your waking life in recent days. There are always the questions when engaged in the 'hero journey' but I get the sense this involves something to do with personal waking life. We know the images of the fish and the number 4 are symbolic and that they fit with your journey. But beyond the normal questioning of aspects of your personal journey the last sentence seems to be directed at something else besides that inner journey.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

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Jan 23rd, 2011 - 9:28 AM

Kristi

Jan 24, 2011 - 8:02AM

64.126.87.221

Re: Four Fish

Jerry,

In the dream, my "feeling" sense of "how" I assimilated the "life force" of the fish is one of having drawn/sucked/"breathed it in" to my being. I feel it very viscerally.

I think one of the reasons why I am in wonder over whether or not it was okay to have done this is because I am still digesting so many recent experiences. A few of which are from recent days, which include some healing movements brought about by my dream life over the past days.

A little bit of the background story here is that I am someone who was rarely ever in church in my life, because I felt (learned to believe myself) so unworthy due to the unfortunate circumstances of my childhood...and yet, simultaneously, since a child, I was "hugely" moved by the Christ archetype...Love. I mentioned in another recent post that I have returned to my Christian roots. This has been an important move for me that started with my praying of the rosary which led to visitations with my (now passed) grandmother's spirit and uncovering more of the symbols and meaning (personal mythos/story) of my early life - which includes having learned that I was baptized in the Catholic Church as an infant (and some powerful [for me] symbolism surrounding the circumstances of that). So, while I am sure my journey will take me yet elsewhere, I am currently re-embracing the Catholic faith which, directly and indirectly, is a great source of my wounding (and hence, healing)...specifically, the patriarchal aspects, and the much harm this has caused...to include the belief that women are (the feminine is) lesser/not worthy. One of my quandaries this past week has been that of, "God the Father Almighty," and the generational repression/abuse of the feminine in my family line. There is a working out or bringing the healing of these inner dynamics to a deeper level. And my daring to realize/say, "I Am That," (Christ/Love), too. That this is okay, and true... so, "taking that in," perhaps.

I am finding the symbolism of the fish to be profound for me. Yes, definitely of the Christ archetype. But also, perhaps more specifically (for me) about taking in (beginning to embody) more of the feminine aspects/symbolism that fish themselves speak of (coming from a woman who took on much masculinity not only in my early life but also in my years in the military):

I borrow this from another webpage: http://www.whats-your-sign.com/symbolic-meanings-of-fish.html

To fully appreciate the symbolic meanings of fish, we must first consider their watery domain.

Water holds ancient symbolic meanings dealing with the subconscious and depth of knowledge. Water contains all the mysteriousness of the unknown.

Consider the murky depths of the ocean – we never know quite what to expect there. Even seasoned oceanic explorers are still awed by their findings from the deep.

Water holds endless mystery to us – it represents that which is certainly there, but cannot be seen.

Water has also been known to be a womb symbol and as such, an emblem of birth, fertility and woman-ness. This association comes from many ancient flood myths, and the “from water springs life” concept.

Given the wonder that its domain holds, the fish too has similar symbolic meaning. There are numerous species of fish, but the creature in general holds some prime symbolic meanings:

fertility
eternity
creativity
femininity
good luck
happiness
knowledge
transformation

The fish was sacred to the Greco-Roman mythology, where it held symbolic meaning of change and transformation. We see this in the myth of Aphrodite and Heros when they turned themselves into fish in order to escape from the ferocious Typhon.

In Christianity, the fish is a symbol of abundance and faith as observed in the Biblical story of fishes and loaves. There are also several Biblical references as Christ and his disciples being “fishers of men.” Here, man is represented as the transformational fish and the ocean is a symbol of the abyss of sin in which man finds himself.

Pagan traditions recognized the fish as a feminine symbol of fertility and an attribute of the Goddess. Water is a natural emblem of the flow of the Divine Mother principal, and as such, all creatures of the water (including fish) are aspects of the fertility and power of the female deity.

As an ancient Celtic symbol, the symbolic meaning of fish (salmon, specifically) dealt with knowledge, wisdom, inspiration and prophecy. Ancient Celts believed the salmon derived its wisdom from consuming the sacred hazel nuts from the well of knowledge (Segais). Further, they believed to eat the salmon would mean gaining the wisdom of the well too.

In ancient Eastern Indian mythology, the fish is a symbol of transformation and creation. This is observed in the ancient flood myth in which Vishnu transformed himself into a fish (Matsya) to save the world from a great flood. In this form, he guided king Manu’s boat (which contained the select few survivors & seeds of life to re-create the world after the flood subsided) to safety.

Ancient African creation myths tell of Mangala, the creator, planting seeds in the cosmic womb. From these seeds two fish erupted, and were set forth into the cosmos upon the waters of creation. We see from this myth the symbolic meaning of fish yet again deals with fertility and creativity by embodying a new phase of initial life. ( click here for other twin symbols).

In China, the fish is symbolic of unity and fidelity as it is noted that fish (particularly koi) often swim together in pairs. With this in mind, fish are often given as wedding gifts in the form of charms or figurines to present the newly-wed couple with an auspicious sign of fidelity and perfect union. They also represent fertility and abundance due to their ability to reproduce in speed and volume.

Furthermore, in Buddhism, the fish symbolizes happiness and freedom. Also the fish makes an appearance as one of the eight sacred symbols of the Buddha: 1) Conch, 2) Lotus, 3) Parasol, 4) Wheel, 5) Knot, 6) Pair of Golden Fish, 7) Banner of Victory, 8) Vase.

Lastly, in Norse and ancient European cultures, the fish had symbolic meanings of adaptability, determination, and the flow of life. It was observed by these cultures that fish often display enormous attributes of adaptability in the wild, and they adopted these characteristics for themselves. Salmon were commonly revered for their determination in their annual pilgrimage to their spawning grounds – the entire journey swum against the current.

I think these are fish that are going to keep on giving : )

Kristi

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 44, Kansas

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Jan 24th, 2011 - 8:02 AM

Jerry {Host & WebMaster MDS Dream Forum}

Jan 25, 2011 - 7:45AM

68.52.102.205

Re: Four Fish

Kristi,

Four Fish. Two words that describe the true SELF in all its wholeness.

A very appropriate and beautiful quote. The fish symbol, the Christ archetype, the feminine power. Having endured life of 'masculine' influences redefining your inner feminine and giving her the rightful place is a huge task indeed. Although I am not a 'church person' and have little need for organized religion I do understand the need for the rituals of the church, especially in the Catholic church which is so rich in ritual traditions {I do remember Joseph Campbell's comments, himself being Catholic, of how many of those rituals are changing to be more like traditional Protestant churches}. Let's hope the rediscovery of that feminine power provides greater things in your life. Questions will always abound but when you stay the course, the hero path to wholeness, hose questions will eventually be answered. You know as well as I it is a process, it takes time but when you reach that return threshold you will be ready for the transition. The true SELF will prevail.
twat twam asi, thou art that, I am that

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 60 Murfreesboro, Tn

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

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Jan 25th, 2011 - 7:45 AM

Kristi

Jan 25, 2011 - 8:28AM

64.126.87.221

Re: Four Fish

Let's hope the rediscovery of that feminine power provides greater things in your life ... The true SELF will prevail.

I fully trust that IT will, Jerry. It's been a long road already, but huge inner changes are afoot in my life. As you said, an ongoing journey, but I know now that "I Am." And that will sustain me.

Kristi

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 44, Kansas

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Female

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes

Jan 25th, 2011 - 8:28 AM