Here is a dream posted by noted author/speaker/professor/TV producer Jean Raffa that includes my interpretation and her response to my interpretation. The original post at her blog can be found at Matrignosis: A Blog About Inner Knowledge
A brief bio about Jean Raffa is located at the end of the dream and interpretation.

Dream About Individuation
Dream #4337: I’m at a social gathering in a large square rooftop deck of an apartment building. I’m holding an empty clear plastic cup and want to fill it with water but there isn’t any here. A protective railing surrounds the platform. I step over the railing on the right side to get to the water.

Now I’m on a runway-like ramp (about 12 feet wide) that rises up and out far beyond the rooftop platform. It’s bordered on either side by silver metal railings. As I walk up I notice X (a waking-life acquaintance) sitting at a table against the right railing. She’s absorbed in some sort of creative work. She asks what I’m doing. I show her my cup and say I’ve come for water. She says I shouldn’t go up there; it’s dangerous. I think she’s being silly. I feel bold, confident, and determined to continue on to the water fountain.

I look beyond her and see that the runway narrows and curves around a small, all-white bathroom at the end. The door is open and I see a white toilet to the left and a white sink against the back wall. I wonder why I expected there to be a water fountain up there, then realize there’s a tap in the sink. I wonder if the water is pure and safe to drink. I tell her I’m not afraid; there are railings on either side I can hang on to. But as I look more closely I see that the left railing gets lower and lower and is only a foot high where it connects to the bathroom wall. Once inside I’d feel safe but there is little protection near the end. It could get windy and I could lose my balance and fall over the edge of the ramp. Should I continue?

Jean's associations to the dream symbols

Summary of Paragraph I: I’m in a high place with four sides. I’m thirsty, but my cup is empty. I leave the group to search for water. Following are my symbols and associations:

High place: being in my head; intellectual, psychological and spiritual aspirations and ideals.

Clear plastic cup: cups, like chalices, symbolize overflowing abundance when full and, in Christianity, the cup of salvation or fate and the draught of immortality. That I’m thirsty but my cup is empty suggests I’m feeling the need for more nourishment, self-understanding and meaning. That the cup is plastic and not made of a firmer, more natural material like crystal or metal suggests my soul’s container is somewhat fragile and needs strengthening.

Water: emotions; abundance of possibilities; the primal origin of all being; bodily, emotional, and spiritual cleansing and the power of renewal; spiritual fertility and spiritual life when associated with the fountain. “Psychoanalysis regards water primarily as a symbol of the feminine and of the powers of the unconscious.” (Herder)

Square platform: Jung saw the square as a symbol of matter, life, earthly reality, and because it has four sides, wholeness. A platform is a man-made level rising above the earth.

Stepping over the railing and leaving the group: crossing a boundary from one place to another in search of nourishment; taking an individual psycho-spiritual journey.

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Jerry's Interpretation

Jerry Gifford (@MythsDreams) Says:
September 2, 2011 at 7:45 pm

Hi Jean,
First let me thank you for the contributions you have provided to my education in dream psyche. Your book ‘Dream Theatres of the Soul’ was inspiration early in my formative years in Jungian psyche. You are one of the pioneers of the understanding of the dream world and your contributions deserve recognizition. Thank you for all you have contributed to the world of dreams.

As always when I interpret a dream I propose possibilities and let the dreamer put the pieces together. Sometimes there is a recognition of something specific, and usually when that happens it has to do with the spiritual. Spiritual aspects in older adults seem to be easier to recognize. I also tend to focus personality traits within a dream and present those possibilities in my interpretations. As you know it is most difficult if not impossible to determine if a symbol ‘means exactly this’. Although there may not be an ability to pin point the exact meaning, there can be a recognition of the periphery aspects. If the dreamer can fit what is suggested with the waking life then that ‘comparing’ will help with the understanding by the dreamer to what the dream is trying to communicate. If I can achieve that much I believe the interpretation was a ‘good one’.

Here is my impressions of your dream.

Could this dream be focused on a particular ‘emotional events’ that are in conflict? Possessing the knowledge we have of your dedicated life to the dream we can surmise the attention of the dream to the spiritual aspects. Could there also be aspects of the outer/ego involving the ‘plastic’ positioning in/of society that the dream is addressing? A need/desire to complete the whole self {square rooftop}, a part of you that is empty and needs fulfillment, that has to do with the outer world of society. The right side would be of ‘social duty’, opposite the ‘left hand path of adventure’, the hero/heroine path, the inner journey.
I do get the sense the dream is, on one level*, speaking to a ‘position’ or positioning in life. The deck/platform would be an extension of your psyche and the protective railings would may suggest a ‘protection’ of that position. An apartment building, a symbol for the self/you, suggests the various aspects of the psyche and the one issue that is prominent is this ‘protection of your position in life’. There is a conscious recognition of this ‘right side position {clear plastic cup}, the opposite of the left hand path of the spiritual journey as your path in life {creativity being an aspect of the spiritual}. There may be a knowledge f this positioning, or perhaps it is the dream announcing a need for such knowledge to be made known to the conscious ‘mind’ {rooftop}, becoming consciously aware of the social position that is ‘empty’ and a need for filling {feelings}. This of course would have to do with emotions {water}, as are all aspects of our dreams, their purpose to reconcile the emotional conflicts in life.

The known aspect of your journey is the creative/spiritual. Your life is dedicated to a life beyond the ‘platform’ of this ‘social aspect’ . As always, to achieve/retain wholeness there needs to be a ‘ramp’ between the various aspects, connecting all the parts. This other part, while opposite the true self, is important to the whole but it is ‘dangerous’ to let it have a ‘platform’ that the true self.

This creative aspects is represented by X {shared aspects the two of you possess}. But this other part of you has more to do with the emotional, the outer self. There is a questioning this other self. The true self is ‘against’ the ‘right side’, the inner knowledge {gnosis} that the outer ego is the lesser aspect compared to the ‘higher’ creative being. This outer aspect in question needs to be confident and bold if it is to fit with and fulfill the emotional needs of this social being.

There is a ‘narrowing’ of these vital connections of ‘all the parts’. Looking beyond the creative aspects there is the ‘curvature’ of the psychological {Parabola}, the outer fulfillment of the emotional self. There is the ‘thought’ the outer self will fill a void {the empty plastic glass}. Bathrooms are usually symbolic of a need for cleansing or elimination. This is a small, ‘all white’ bathroom which may suggest a cleansing of the psyche but not a need of a total elimination of this outer aspect {there has to be an ‘annihilation’ of the ego, and a rebirth to the spiritual, but there will always be a personality}. The white toilet would represent a ‘release’ of emotions {sink} but in a controlled manner {tap}. Recognition of this other self can be frighten since it is ‘foreign’ to the ‘individuated’ self. It is the ‘individuated’ Self that provides support when encountering the outer aspects of self. As long as you don’t hang on to this ‘social’ aspect you need not fear it. This allows this lower aspects to be integrated as a part of the whole and allows you to safely participate in this social endeavor. With all social aspects the threat of emotional forces can affect balance. This fact cause you to question where to continue to let this lesser outer ego aspect to have a place in your life.

Conclusion.

In this ‘new age’ of technology we have become so intertwined with communicating through various forms of social media. Twitter is one form for such communications. Could this dream be addressing the issues that go with these instruments of social communication? The use of these media devices can become too ego influenced it threatens the fabric of someone like yourself who is ‘spiritual to the bone’. It can be a great outlet for expression but when dealing with the release of emotions {by others} there is always a danger. I sense the dream is focused on these issues. I also sense from the last part of the dream it is something you can control. There will always be challenges to the spiritual self when participating in a world full of ego. This new media does provide an outlet for expression in a forms not thought possible even a few years ago. The question whether to continue is one of necessity to the need for expression. Just as with my life and my expression through my web site and Dream Forum the answer is yes. It is just too great a way to ‘get out the message’, to share what we have learned so others discover a path to wholeness.

*Abiding by the Jungian theory that all dreams have more than one meaning.

twat twam asi,
Jerry Gifford
Myths-Dreams-Symbols

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Jean's Response

jeanraffa Says:
September 3, 2011 at 11:30 am
Dear Jerry,

I am moved beyond measure by your thoughtful attention to my dream and the deep well of wisdom from which your words spring. Your sentence about how the ego influence of social media “threatens the fabric of someone like yourself who is ‘spiritual to the bone’ ” resonated profoundly. It is rare in my experience for my soul to be seen this clearly by another soul. Thank you for this gift.

I have, indeed, been struggling recently with the need to express what I have learned vs. the difficulties, indeed, dangers of increased exposure to unhealthy emotional influences from others. As you write, “With all social aspects the threat of emotional forces can affect balance.” This comment helped me tie the dream to two specific experiences I had a week or two before in which the “release of emotions” by two others who found me on twitter did shake me up a bit. Thus far, my answer to the question, “Should I continue?” has been yes for the same reason you express, plus an additional one: Had I not made this foray into social media I never would have met you and several other new friends who are so affirming to my work and enriching to my life.

Again, a sincere thank you for your extremely helpful observations.

Jeanie

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About Jean Raffa

Dr. Jean Raffa is an author, speaker, and leader of workshops, dream groups, and study groups. Her job history includes teacher, television producer, college professor, and instructor at the Disney Institute in Orlando and The Jung Center in Winter Park, FL. She is the author of three books, a workbook, a chapter in a college text, numerous articles in professional journals, and a series of meditations and short stories for Augsburg Fortress Publisher.

Through formal and informal means, including a five-year Centerpoint course and an intensive at the Jung Institute in Zurich, Switzerland, Jean has been studying Jungian psychology and her own inner life for more than twenty years.

Since 1992, Jean has made more than a hundred program appearances, including television, radio, and Internet interviews, classes, workshops, and book signings. Her book The Bridge to Wholeness: A Feminine Alternative to the Hero Myth (LuraMedia, 1992) was nominated for the Benjamin Franklin Award for best psychology book of 1992. Reviewed in several journals and featured on the reading lists of university courses, it was also picked by the Isabella catalogue as a must-read for seeking women.

Dream Theatres of the Soul: Empowering the Feminine Through Jungian Dreamwork (Innisfree Press, Inc., 1994) has been used in dreamwork courses throughout the country and is included in Amazon.com’s list of the Top 100 Best Selling Dream Books, and TCM’s book list of Human Resources for Organizational Development.

Jean is married with two adult children—a daughter with a Ph.D. in Marriage and Family Therapy and a son with a Ph.D. in Economics—and five grandchildren. She currently lives in Maitland, Florida and Highlands, North Carolina with her economist husband, Fred.

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn. USA

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Here is Jean's final summary of her dream and the interpretation.

I’d like to begin by saying a huge thank-you to Joseph, Jerry and Jane (what’s with all the J’s?) for their comments (Jane’s came via e-mail) about Dream #4337. Their thoughtful associations were enormously helpful as I pondered this dream.

Dreams express things essentially unknown to the ego. Most believe, however, that they are primarily about emotions, which are charges of energy that influence our thoughts and behavior. Sometimes they create so much anxiety that stopping to reflect on what we are feeling before responding does not come easily to us. We find it far easier to either ignore them or act immediately, often with disastrous consequences. Emotional awareness is the stairway between the archaic being at the deeper levels of our psyche and higher consciousness, and dreamwork builds this stairway.

Dream #4337 (see previous two posts) is like a 3-act play. Act I takes place in a social setting. Emotion is introduced by the thirsty woman who wants to fill her plastic cup with water. The energy of her wanting compels her to leave the collective and set out on a solitary journey. As Jerry noted, this seems to express discomfort with aspects of my positioning in society which are too plastic and unfulfilling to quench my thirst for personal meaning and self-knowledge — i.e. individuation.

Act II introduces Ms X (as Jane calls this shadow of mine) with her warning of potential danger. The meeting of these two streams of emotional energy sets up a conflict: Thirsty Woman's determination vs. Ms X’s fear. Joseph sees Ms X as one so involved in her work that she has stopped along the way. Jane, too, sees her as one who has made it over the first railing but then stopped: perhaps because she got tired or frightened. Because she's in my dream, there is a part of me like her. One association I have for the waking-life Ms X is that she resists facing her shadow emotions and appears to rechannel their energy into hard work. Whereas 22 years of dreamwork have emboldened me to face my shadow, I obviously still have some sublimated, unredeemed fear.

In Act III my thirsty woman dream ego experiences three new emotions: receptivity to Ms X's fears, willingness to stop and examine the road ahead, and conscious concern for her safety. I had no idea what this had to do with my waking life until I read Jerry's question about my involvement with social media: "Could this dream be addressing the issues that go with these instruments of social communication?" This brought a huge "Aha!" My shadow has an important message for me and my ego is listening.

Two weeks before this dream a few communications on Twitter shook me up and stopped me in my tracks. As Jerry suggested, "The use of these media devices can become [so] ego influenced it threatens the fabric of someone like yourself who is ‘spiritual to the bone’. It can be a great outlet for expression but when dealing with the release of emotions {by others} there is always a danger. I sense the dream is focused on these issues. I also sense from the last part of the dream [the bathroom as a place of elimination, cleansing and refreshment] it is something you can control. There will always be challenges to the spiritual self when participating in a world full [of] ego." Bingo!

And so the question remains: Shall I continue on this path? Jerry’s words could be mine: "...the answer is yes. It is just too great a way to ‘get out the message’, to share what we have learned so others discover a path to wholeness." But I'll be listening to my shadow and watching the path ahead.

Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn. USA

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Hi Jerry, a possible idea came to mind that I could just add a touch. I don't know Jean's work or anything about her except the information you provided. I would not hesitate to say that I could imagine her social responsibilities are at a high level and so her feeling of commitment to the social aspect could easily become absolute...if she wasn't a dream therapist. So she harkens to the inner voice, but perhaps she's become a touch enamored of the outer reality. a speculation.
The thing i wanted to add was the question, do you think Ms. x knows there's a bathroom and a sink up there? She knows it's dangerous up there, but in what way? If there wasn't a need for a bathroom and tap in Jean's life, I suppose they wouldn't be up there, so I would think that Ms. x is not conscious or is repressive of the coming scenerio. In a way that would jive with your idea that Ms. x is an outer personality, because she is unfamiliar with Jean's need for elimination of a plastic aspect and a fulfillmeent of archaic aqua vitiae (water of life)(somewhat presumpuous of me). I would guess that the plastic cup, when it is filled, would no longer be plastic. I don't think that going up there would be at the expense of her shadowor nature, as it often is, since there is still the tap, and as you say, it is controlled. It would be great to see a few of her follow up dreams. Thanks for sharing this with us, I can see the boundlessness in her nature.

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Sam,
You make some great observations about Jean's dream. I will comment on your points later today as well as how I came to my conclusions. I will say her dream does tend to illustrate the various levels of the dream, in my mind confirming Jung's proposition the dream has more than one meaning or application.
Because there is not a specific inclusion or identifiable symbol or symbolic reference to 'spiritual matters' I looked beyond the spiritual aspects and to recent personal experiences. As it turns out this 'level' in her life was probably the primary focus of her dream. Having had the personal experience with the internet, both in my dream work at Myths-Dreams-Symbols as well as recent realizations of the importance of this new technology of the internet {I have seen an identifiable increase with our construction business due to the number of people who find us using Google} I saw similar experiences in her dream. Of course the dream language is symbolic but that has become my second language. As such, the 'rooftop' symbol was key to this observation. I will explain later today when I have more time to go into the details.

For now the 'dragon' needs to be fed.

Jerry

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Sam,
You may want to read Jean's final comments about her dream and the responses. It may answer some of your thoughts about the dream. Below are those comments which is the first time posting them at the Dream Forum. I have highlited some parts, in some cases words or terms, of her response that are important {in my mind} and reveal the one level of the dream I think is the primary focus. I will revisit these parts in my comments tomorrow.

Also, here is her final response from her Matrignosis blog site.
Working On A Dream About Individuation: Part III.

I am in the process of assimilating my thoughts on the whole dream post and will provide those comments in the morning. I will start a new thread for those comments since this one is so full it will be hard to determine what is what.

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Working On A Dream About Individuation: Part III

I’d like to begin by saying a huge thank-you to Joseph, Jerry and Jane (what’s with all the J’s?) for their comments (Jane’s came via e-mail) about Dream #4337. Their thoughtful associations were enormously helpful as I pondered this dream.

Dreams express things essentially unknown to the ego. Most believe, however, that they are primarily about emotions, which are charges of energy that influence our thoughts and behavior. Sometimes they create so much anxiety that stopping to reflect on what we are feeling before responding does not come easily to us. We find it far easier to either ignore them or act immediately, often with disastrous consequences. Emotional awareness is the stairway between the archaic being at the deeper levels of our psyche and higher consciousness, and dreamwork builds this stairway.

Dream #4337 (see previous two posts) is like a 3-act play. Act I takes place in a social setting. Emotion is introduced by the thirsty woman who wants to fill her plastic cup with water. The energy of her wanting compels her to leave the collective and set out on a solitary journey. As Jerry noted, this seems to express discomfort with aspects of my positioning in society which are too plastic and unfulfilling to quench my thirst for personal meaning and self-knowledge — i.e. individuation.

Act II introduces Ms X (as Jane calls this shadow of mine) with her warning of potential danger. The meeting of these two streams of emotional energy sets up a conflict: Thirsty Woman’s determination vs. Ms X’s fear. Joseph sees Ms X as one so involved in her work that she has stopped along the way. Jane, too, sees her as one who has made it over the first railing but then stopped: perhaps because she got tired or frightened. Because she’s in my dream, there is a part of me like her. One association I have for the waking-life Ms X is that she resists facing her shadow emotions and appears to rechannel their energy into hard work. Whereas 22 years of dreamwork have emboldened me to face my shadow, I obviously still have some sublimated, unredeemed fear.

In Act III my thirsty woman dream ego experiences three new emotions: receptivity to Ms X’s fears, willingness to stop and examine the road ahead, and conscious concern for her safety. I had no idea what this had to do with my waking life until I read Jerry’s question about my involvement with social media: ”Could this dream be addressing the issues that go with these instruments of social communication?” This brought a huge “Aha!” My shadow has an important message for me and my ego is listening.

Two weeks before this dream a few communications on Twitter shook me up and stopped me in my tracks. As Jerry suggested, “The use of these media devices can become [so] ego influenced it threatens the fabric of someone like yourself who is ‘spiritual to the bone’. It can be a great outlet for expression but when dealing with the release of emotions {by others} there is always a danger. I sense the dream is focused on these issues {Note: this is Jean's final assessment of the dream}. I also sense from the last part of the dream [the bathroom as a place of elimination, cleansing and refreshment] it is something you can control. There will always be challenges to the spiritual self when participating in a world full [of] ego.” Bingo!

And so the question remains: Shall I continue on this path? Jerry’s words could be mine: “…the answer is yes. It is just too great a way to ‘get out the message’, to share what we have learned so others discover a path to wholeness.” But I’ll be listening to my shadow and watching the path ahead.


Jerry

Age & Gender & Location {Required}: 61 Murfreesboro, Tn. USA

Have You Posted Before? Date of Last Post {Use Search and Your Post Name to Help Find Last Post} Male

How Did You Find the Dream Forum? Yes