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can't proceed

Hello all,
I would like some help to interpret the role of the woman in this dream.
In waking life I am a surgeon and so the dream is in that context

I have come down a flight of wooden stairs having changed into clothes for going into the operating theatres. I remember my shoes, which are slip-on and hence not tight fitting, hitting the stairs and making some noise. Also as I came down I was aware/ friendly to the other staff in the room.

I was stopped by the Head Nurse - an older woman, authoratative, 'old school' - she would not let me pass to go into the operating theatres untli I went back up and came down poperly - I don't think I had to rechange my clothes.
I gave her all sorts of reasons, 'trying to talk my way around her' (some I remember) but she just would not let me pass.
In real life this situation would be very unlikely - unless the surgeon was a visitor to that operating theatre; ie: on my home turf I would just take it on board and go on.
Then awoke or another dream about getting a bicycle.,,,, so I don't know if I did as she asked ,,,,

This dream seems to hold / give a very important clue to me as to why I am unable to engage my work, progress, makecareer decisions at present.

Does the woman represent a mother issues - indicating I need to reclaim my masculine side or is there another achetype that she could represent. ?????


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Re: can't proceed

Justin,
In your dream I sense a real self questioning of identity. You have the natural abilities but there may be some deeper issues that prevent you from being all that you can be.
You bring up the possibility of 'mother issues'. Apparently you have given this some thought. A third person approach, as in your dreams, will let you see logically what is really there. Are there mother issues? If there is then the Head Nurse could very well be symbolic, a metaphor for your mother. Does she stand in your way to being your true self? Changing clothes often symbolizes the different roles we play in life, what we change into and out of. Take a logical look at the relationship with your mother, lose the bias, come to a realization.

I sense something more about the dream, beyond possible 'mother issues'. That wouldn't be uncommon since the dream will look at the personal aspect {possible mother issues} and the deeper psychological aspects. I'll look at the dream in the morning and give it some more analysis.
Gerard

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Re: Re: can't proceed

Hi Jerry
I appreciate your further consideration of this dream, I feel it contains some valuable clues to the blocks in my life and yet I cannot get around it as it were - I like the idea of the third person approach but am not familiar with it - i shall try it though - thanks
JC

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Ps;

How does the dream work on a third person level??
Thanks
JC

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Re: Re: can't proceed

Coming down the wooden stairs and changing clothes may symbolize the different aspects of your personality. You are changing into someone who must perform {operating theatres}. The shoes may be the role you expect of yourself, something you can quickly slip on and does not hinder your ability {and need} to be noticed {making noise}. You may be not be consciously aware of these changes and they probably have become normal operating procedure in your life {pardon the pun}.

Let’s look at the Head Nurse in the context as your mother, then look at her as an aspect of your anima, and perhaps a mana personality.

As I stated in my post yesterday the Head Nurse would fit with someone who is ruled by their mother {‘mother issues’}. Being an older woman, authoritative and old school could be a true impression you hold of your mother. Is it? The question comes up, does she fit the role of someone who prevents you from being the true person you seek to be? The different roles you have to fill would be in favor of what she wants and not your deepest self. You are required to fill that position she wishes you to fill, be properly attired in the role she requests. When you are not in her presence you change into someone else, a different person {perhaps not completely} than what she expects of you.

If the Head Nurse is symbolic of the anima then there may be within you a fixed opposition to the higher qualities of the feminine aspect. This aspect in its greatest form is very disciplined {perhaps incorporated from the masculine world in which we live}, old school {primitive mind}, older woman {wise Self}. She wishes to prevent you from the changing roles you play in life, and be that true Self. But you do all that you can to resist. You are required by the soul to be the proper self and when you stop resisting ‘Her’ you no longer have to rechange your clothes. You need to wlak the wlak instead of just talking the talk.

As far as an inability to focus and make the required career decisions, both interpretations could play into this.

And there is the possibility that the Head Nurse is a tool you are using to undermine your efforts career wise and personal life. Knowing the power of the feminine aspect your conscious ego uses this to thwart your normal daily routine decision making process. The Head Nurse has become a mana personality, used in a negative aspect rather than the positive. Consciously you seek personal and spiritual growth but when the ego self is controlling, or controlled {as in ‘mother issues’} then you are powerless to get around the Head Nurse.
And there is the possibility if not probability than two or more of the above interpretations fit. If there are indeed mother issues then one or the other aspects I mention could evolve from that. Jung says there is always at least two interpretations to every dream.

Reflection and introspection, using the unbiased eyes to see is what I suggest you do in determining what this Head Nurse wants from you. You have enough knowledge of Jungian ideas to understand the process. Perhaps the one thing about the Head Nurse that could be used in a positive light {even if she is a negative aspect} is the discipline she possesses. That is what it takes to see the self as you really are, discipline. And not to be afraid {the hero motif}.

I look forward to your comments.

Gerard

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Re: Ps;

Justin,
You are the third person looking on the dream chaaracters, other aspects of yourself and your life. Dreams are plays, and you are the audience, the cast members, the stage crew and all the various elements that make up the play {your life}. There is no bias here, just the true self guised in costumes of metaphor and symbolism.
Gerard

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Re: Re: Re: can't proceed

Many many thanks Jerry - Much of what you have written strikes a chord, and gives me some great clues as to the how I can work with these points - I shall do some inner work and let you know.
I feel this dream is has much to teach me - I have been known a block exist yet have not beenable to see it - I have just felt blocked for some time.
Thanks again.
Justin

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Re: Re: can't proceed

Dear Jerry,

In 2005 you interpreted a dream I had in which my progress was prevented by a Head Nurse - I think the thread will be maintained - and I want to i) feedback and ii) ask further.

Also I note that the title of this thread is still valid : I keep trying to proceed with life but seem thwarted (in particular job leads dry up) , , , maybe I need to accept I have been heading in the wrong direction , , ,

Feedback:
well it has taken a long time to unravel and feel the depth and immensity of my 'mother issues' - you had marked these words in red - lets be clear and call it Oedipal , , , the depth of the effect of my mothers possession of me upon me has been massive, and realising that has been like letting a charge off within the depth of me. It has taken some assimilating.
A number of points in your reply strike me now as I re-read your interpretation:
- "be properly attired" , , , and yes it seems I even had to dress to suit her
- Being an older woman, authoritative and old school could be a true impression you hold of your mother : she was all these - yet she portrayed a modern outlook.
- "You may be not be consciously aware of these changes and they probably have become normal operating procedure in your life {pardon the pun}." Yes

Going Deeper:
You posited: "The question comes up, does she fit the role of someone who prevents you from being the true person you seek to be?" :: yes : I was never allowed to be myself, and continually had to please her.

So the Head Nurse fits as an aspect of my anima - and perhaps a mana personality.
The issue you raised about a fixed opposition really twanged a chord.

Yes a fixed opposition to the higher qualities of the feminine aspect.
Certainly put into me by my fathers ideas that women could not be trusted , , , how's that for confusing a boy , , ,
Can you expand ? "This aspect in its greatest form is very disciplined . . . " I assume you mean in a good way?

Who / what is the 'Her' I am resisting - is it life ? is it the feminine ? , , , this really fits and I need to understand it.
It explains my 'self-sabotaging' behaviour, and my inability to flourish or even be deeply + contented happy in life.
So the Head Nurse does fit as a tool I am using to undermine my efforts towards a positive life - this a mana personality? Is this the same as super-ego ? It feels like a devil, so ingrained - how do I rid myself of this : : : : ?

"Knowing the power of the feminine aspect your conscious ego uses this to thwart your normal daily routine decision making process. The Head Nurse has become a mana personality, used in a negative aspect rather than the positive. Consciously you seek personal and spiritual growth but when the ego self is controlling, or controlled {as in ‘mother issues’} then you are powerless to get around the Head Nurse.

Reflection and introspection, using the unbiased eyes to see is what I suggest you do in determining what this Head Nurse wants from you. You have enough knowledge of Jungian ideas to understand the process. Perhaps the one thing about the Head Nurse that could be used in a positive light {even if she is a negative aspect} is the discipline she possesses. That is what it takes to see the self as you really are, discipline. And not to be afraid {the hero motif}."

wow - it has taken a long time and a huge amount of reflection and introspection to get just this far , , ,

I shall post the other dream

many thanks
Justin

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Re: Re: can't proceed

Justin,
I'll provide my thoughts this weekend. But you obviously have reached a plateau of sorts to remember this dream some 4 years after posting it. And it is no surprise it is the 'Head' Nurse that has brought you to this point.
The power of the feminine psyche.

Jerry pray]

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Re: Re: can't proceed

hi Jerry,

Actually I have not forgotten this series of dreams about being 'blocked by the feminine' , , , seems a key element for me

thanks for your time

JC

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Re: can't proceed

Justin,
Could not this older woman, authoritative, 'old school', be your mother. Instilled experiences from early life which were projected onto your psyche as a child, they do not now fit with your learned feminine psyche {Jungian psyche as you have learned from it}. Could it still be these earliest imprinted experiences that are now blocking your access to the 'feminine psyche'? The healing process of Jungian psyche {access to the feminine power, the Head Nurse being the blocking agent}, is that is what is now taking place, a final nail in the coffin of the 'old you'? Atonement with the Mother?

Campbell: Atonement consists in no more that the abandonment of that self-generated double monster - the dragon thought to be God (mother) and the dragon thought to be Sin (imprinted experiences). But this requires an abandonment of the attachment to ego itself, and that is what is difficult.

It does seem it always gets back to attachment to the ego. No wonder Campbell spoke of total annihilation of the ego and not just its death.

Jerry

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Re: can't proceed

Hi Jerry

no easy matter to reply to this

'Coincidentally' my readings have taken me deep into the territory of the mother's influence on the child : and in light of my memories this has been chilling (pun intended).

Yes my mother was all the aspects you mention - old (she was 42 when she 'had' me), authoritarian, cold (a cold fish). It was all appearance; yet that was the way at the time. She was belief (all by will) rather than faith (in life). Life was to be suffered through , , ,

I don't know if / how I can atone with my mother (albeit she is dead now). I can rationalise it and understand her, but deep letting go is tough.
I can see that I have a fixed - and negative - attitude to life, due to my early childhood experiences, indeed I have no imprint of the positive side of the feminine or of life. Perhaps this is the mana personality ? This fixed negative attitude to the feminine deep inside me , ,

Denial is not fitting; so somehow a larger perspective must be gained , , , looking further afield than my mother for a positive imprint of the feminine.

many thanks
Justin

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Re: can't proceed

Hi Justin

I just undertook a course on personal development through my work. It was indeed a very enlightening and timely course, it has cropped its head constantly since I undertook it and I think what I learnt may be realitve here.

This course is all about turning around negative attitudes and bad thought patterns developed during childhood, and transcending them.

The first part of the course was all about the uncertainty of the fog of the future - anything is possible. If you open yourself to that possibility, you can make great things happen. The teacher used the example of Lance Armstrong overcoming adversity to win the Tour de France. I am not sure of the validity of that, but the point was that the future is an uncertainty, and our attitude plays a big part in shaping it.

Following this we discussed how our expectations shape what happens to us. Sort of like the Secret but without the mysticism. What we expect is what we get because we are hard wired to notice what we expect.

We then went into the attitude with which we bring to our lives. Be it a positive one or a negative one, and how this shapes our lives and how we have the 'response-ability' to change this.

The point of all of this in relevance to your post is I notice your attitude towards your negative attitude, summed up in the phrase:

"I can see that I have a fixed - and negative - attitude to life"

I would say this is your negative attitude to your negative attitude. It is so ingrained into you that you believe it is fixed. You can not change is what you are saying. I feel that this is false, but having had this attitude every day of your life it is HARD to break free, not impossible.

The possibilities are endless, the rest of the pages of your life are unwritten. You hold the pen. With the expectation that you won't change, you will continue as you are. With the realisation that it is in fact not fixed, I would say that is your first step forward. Realising that you can change...

Hope that helps,
Rook

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Re: can't proceed

Hi Justin,

You said: looking further afield than my mother for a positive imprint of the feminine.

I just wanted to share that this is what I have had to do, too. Even though I am a woman, the dilemna of mother/and positive and negative feminine, when we consider that we each have both masculine and feminine characteristics, are not so different, in my opinion.

I was able to share what I did in your other thread, not just because I am a woman/mother, but also because my own mother had a devouring type energy (extremely devouring).

Ironically, the more I understand her influence both from a feminine and masculine perspective, is the more I am able to heal and grow out from it all. My dreams over the years have shown me not just the effects mother had on me, but also the effects she had on my four brothers. This too is crucial for me, as my father and my brothers were the first imprints of the masculine known in my life, hence reflections of my own inner masculine, as developed early in life. Meaning the psychic imprints registered in my brothers, were also the imprints registered in my psyche. When we take the fact that we as children (as babes) are born "open," all that happens around us is taken in by/becomes a part of us. So very much of this is on the unconscious levels, as Jerry alluded to in his post in your other thread.

For what it is worth, one thing my analyst continually reminded me of (and sometimes does still, in the moments that it bears repeating) is that all the archetypes exist in all of us...to include the loving/positive feminine/Divine Mother (however we want to term this). It may take us some time getting there, but we can. Sometimes, just asking, and faithfully waiting is all that is needed. "She" is there! In all of us. I personally have needed quite a few role models, which include, as you have noticed from my own posts, Ammachi. I know it is projection, but the projection and transferrence are sometimes needed, crucial really, to help us to come to see and find it again inside of oursleves.

Hi Rook, I do appreciate the power of positive thinking. It is important. But we have to be careful, for sometimes we are merely placing a bandaid, so to speak, over what may require a surgical process. What I itend to mean is that sometimes we are merely writing over an already damaged script, so kind of like placing more conditioning over an already conditioned state. The roots remain until excised. And while the positive thinking helps us to move forward (and is crucial to the process), those weedy roots will continue to sprout up until properly weeded from their source. So, by all means, do continue with this tool/the value of what you are gaining/have gained in the course, but remember, too, that deeper work is often also needed.

Very best wishes,
Kristi

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Re: can't proceed

Many thanks for these replies - my delayed response is a reflection of the depth of these matters for me , , ,

I have just been reading from Depression and the Body by Alexander Lowen, and this struck me, (the topic has been Frued's view of nature + the unconscious)
"There is another bias in Freud that should be exposed. , , , We can explain this contradiction in Freud's personality by interpreting his relationship to his mother. Freud's feelings about his mother were also ambivalent, but in this case he suppressed the negative aspect, which he then projected on the universal mother - nature.
The effect of this bias was to blind Freud to those aspects of human life that deal with the relationship of a child to his mother of of man to nature, the great mother. It also blinded him to the great insights that Carl Jung developed." pp. 253

Well this is something for me to contemplate !

Rook - the other day I started talking to someone who was reading soemthing about the power of attraction , , , I have read and know this work - and know of it's efficacy. However - the warning 'be careful what you ask for, you might get it is true' => because if the motivation for the 'positive thought' or desire is superficial (arising from ones ego) then , , in the long run it is unlikely to benefit.
Being unaware of our unconscious motivations, we end up with more of the same , , ,

namaste
Justin

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Re: can't proceed

Justin,
Although Freud opened us to the world of the unconscious he got a lot of it wrong. And much of it was related to his own shortcomings. Jung fills the void and is quickly becoming the 'go to' source when attempting to understand the psyche.

"the warning 'be careful what you ask for, you might get it is true' => because if the motivation for the 'positive thought' or desire is superficial (arising from ones ego) then , , in the long run it is unlikely to benefit".

That is a wonderful statement. Realizing there are logical reasoning to all the possibilities is how we discover the 'truths' within this world. It is not just by happenstance a thing is as it is. There are always underlying reasons and causations. Unconscious motivations, the foundation of who we are.

Once again your wisdom shines through.

Jerry

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Re: can't proceed

Not a book answer by any means, but I learned early on in my healing journey that I was always trying to pretend to be other than what I am because some part of me learned to feel/believe she was "less than" or "not enough," "not good enough," yaddah, yaddah...which, by the way, is not "true" either...but it is part of what we have to unravel...all the conditioning.

We need only apply awareness to our actions and motivations and question ourselves, "Why (REALLY) did I just do that...say that...feel that...think that?" And we may begin to unravel.

There is a rejected self in every one of us. It all started the first time we were told "no," as children (indeed, as babes), the first time when what arose naturally was shunned, stopped, redirected, etc. This continued every day over our years until we began doing it to ourselves, too, as learned.

When I first began my healing journey, subsequent to the awakening of the kundalini, try as I might to say/beleive/affirm, "I am this or that," or, "I wanna be this or that," was all the more that the darkness in me howled. Such is the power of the unconscious over the ego! T'is why I believe it is better to accept that we are "both/and" and never "either/or." This is where self/Self love is born. Ego may fool itself for some time, with its new story, but we are who/what we are (have been)! Better to undo story and just "be," instead of add more story which only adds to the undoing that needs to be done.

When we unravel, our energy is freed, then we can be without needing "The Secret!"

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to have a world of positive thinking people, but better we all clean our back yards up first, for they are what cause all the havoc in our world...all that unclaimed shadow material out there. Ouch!

Kristi

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Re: can't proceed

Excellent timing. I have taken on board what both Justin and Kristi have said about warning of just passing over the negative with a positive.

But on an unrelated topic I was pondering the meaning of the undead, not in terms of a dream but more in relation to a Vampire series I have been watching lately.

I was contemplating this, and have often wondered about zombies in dreams and there meaning, my curiosity about this theme has never really been satisfied. So I asked myself, what is the undead?

Something which should have been dead (eg a part of the psyche that has outlived its use – ‘outdated’ software) but is still active, and draining on our energies. Something that often is disturbing / generates fear.

But it is in solving this problem which is highlighted by your comments. In most of the dreams I have seen killing that one vampire / zombie that is threatening the dreamer will not solve the problem. The dreamer must find the SOURCE of the zombies / vampire and kill that, such as in the legend of Dracula, the scourge will not be solved unless the master Vampire is slain. It is always the same in my own personal zombie dreams. It doesn’t matter how many zombies you kill, it is not until you destroy that which is producing the zombies is the crisis averted.

I feel this is a pretty good illustration of what you are saying, and something I agree with.

And looking objectively at your comment Kristi I can see the need for both the negative (problem) focus and the positive (solution) focus. This is illustrated well in my life, I have often had a strong solution focus. If I come across a problem, I don’t really care about who or what caused it, I just look for the solution and try to overcome it (more often than not I will actually look for a way around the problem – probably good in my past, perhaps not so good in the present). My current partner, as well as my ex both have a strong problem focus.

My point is though, I will often wander along completely oblivious to big problems welling up around me. I do not have a foresight for potential problems, I merely come across one problem, avert or overcome and move on. While my partner looks ahead and sees the issues coming up, but she does not look for solutions, she stresses about the problem and hopes it sorts itself out. The ideal would be working together, she would spot the problem in advance, I would come up with some potential solutions, and we would together brainstorm the best approach. There is a need for both approaches. When they are working together you have the best approach, this is how I see it anyhow.

Being overtly positive does seem a bit lovey-dovey (unrealistic) to me.

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