i am with my brother, we are looking at a a flat, there is a couple there, who are also interested in the flat, they are hoovering, i am now talking to the woman, who i find very attractive at first, which kind of cools quickly, she comes from the same area i come from, but she does not know the town i come from, when i tell her, her boyfriend now comes over, serving some drinks, he points to my t-shirt, which i think says "lover", which he likes,
now suddenly there is a gay guy (who i know from when i was in school), serving drinks, i see him walking arm i arm with his mother on her way to the airport, i feel threatened of him (like i really used to be back then, i wanted his approval, he was very popular and intelligent, but always belittled me), i feel really defensive, try to say hurtful things before he says them to me,
my brother says, you two do not get on, i say we are either too similar or too different, and feel like we are too similar, we are leaving, and i feel sorry for the gay guy, sitting now all alone

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chris,
Is there any questions about your sexuality? Or are then any thoughts beyond a hetersexual relationship? Not that the dream points to these possibilities but if I can eliminate those thn we can look to other possibilities. If you will let me know the answers to these questions I will look deeper into the possibilities of this dream.

Gerard

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hi gerard,
thanks for your answer.
indeed i have been thinking about whether i might be bisexual recently, mostly because of what my unconscious has presented me with. the actual thought of having sex with a man seems pretty weird to me though and not exciting.
still i had another dream in which a voice said "you have to accept that a part of you is gay".
i was just wondering whether the interpretation of the dreams is as obvious as they seem, or whether , as you indicated, there may be other ways to look at them.
i would appreciate your thoughts.
chris

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Chris,
If you are indeed gay you will know it. It is not a choice, it is inherent. As for bi-sexuality it is not uncommon to have such thoughts. Most men and women have such thoughts at sometime. I have many gay and bi aquantances who have provided many insights to how they discovered or came to the conclusion they are gay or bi. Bi-sexulaity is different because it can be a choice. But most bi-sexual men I have met were in truth gay. Of course it is important {in my opinion} to understand the consequences of such decisions to indulge in gay sex, not because of moral issues but because of psychological issues. Also if you are married or already in a relationship you should consider the consequences of having other relationships whether it be gay, bi-sexual or hetersexual. Again I see such choices as psychologically damaging and not necessarily a moral issue.

You dream does seem to be addressing bi-sexual issues. The brother {possibly your bi-sexual/gay tendencies} and the couple {the two different aspects you are confronted with-heter or homo} as well as the attractive woman who comes from the same area {hetersexual} all point to your conflicts over your sexuality. The attractive woman not knowing the town you are from could be addressing the bi-sexual issues {you are not sure about your sexuality}.

I get the impression your t-shirts says a lot about this conflict. Perhaps the dream is more about sex than it is your sexuality. Perhaps you are looking for the sexual experience more so than questioning your sexuality. There are those who seek sexual relationships with the same sex more for the experience.

But on the other hand your were seeking approval from your friend {in actual waking life} may point to your true identity. Are you similiar or different? Feeling sorry for the gay guy may be feeling sorry for yourself. Do you feel all alone because of inner yearnings, because you are indeed gay?

As I stated previously, if you are truly gay your inner self will know it. If you are borderline {in Darwin's world there are the variations of the variations} then perhaps you are bi-sexual, having a preference for both sexes. Feelings about being with the same sex could be as much cultural indoctrination as it is being gay or bi. Looking at yourself in truth, I believe you will understand your true sexuality.

I would be very interested in your thoughts.

Gerard

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thanks again gerard for your time.
all im certain of is that i feel very strongly attracted to women.
what you are writing about in regards of seeking the experience sounds very interesting.
indeed, since i am questioning my sexuality, it would need a same sex experience, to find out what i truly want.
i am not in a relationship at the moment, so there would not be any moral issues about giving it a go.

i am quite low in energy, feeling blocked, so this gay part of myself could be where all the energy is held, i.e. living this side of myself out could release the energy that maybe is used up repressing that part.
gay men have regularly popped up in my life, and right now i feel that maybe it is just about making a decision, which is another dreammessage that i had about this topic.
i guess i just have to see whether an opportunity comes up to find out and i do want to be me , although obviously the prospect of being bi/gay is challenging for any man in this society( in my view).
thanks again for your posts!

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i have had another dream that i would like to share with you, which i think is another expression of that undecidedness respectively ambiguous sexuality:

the old man threatens the the woman next to me with a pistol, after he had previously pointed the gun at every other person in the room, now he really seems about to shoot, i am holding a booklet in the line of fire to protect the woman, eventually the old man does not shoot(or misses, i cant remember).
i am sending him, who now is a woman, to his room, "and no dessert".( )
she does not know where her room is, i tell her, but instead she runs up the stairs to the room of her boyfriend. then there are sounds of masturbation from her and her boyfriend, who is in a different room.

my mother tells me that she will have to wash the track pants that i am wearing , they are hers, my t-shirt belongs to my father, it is too big.
(that last part may be from another dream)

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Chris,
I need to give this second dream some real consideration. The first part seems to re-inforce your exploration of your sexuality. But the last part, which includes your mother and your father may give new emphasis to other possibilities. Those possibilities may be more than exploring sexuality and/or may include underlying causations of why you are in need of exploring. There is also the possibility it is addressing something more than self exploration and may be pointing to early life experiences which could lead to causations and/or something deeper. Hopefully I will be able to provide better insights in the morning {the intuitive Self is better in the AM hours}.

Gerard

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Chris,
After re-examining the last paragraph of this dream I feel there may be an identification with the feminine perhaps sexually, but also relationship wise {the track pants that i am wearing , they are hers}. You are also distancing yourself from the masculine also {my t-shirt belongs to my father, it is too big}. The t-shirt doesn't fit you, you are not your dad. There is a difference somewhere, probably a strong difference.

This could be addressing the exploration of your sexually, but may also be addressing a real waking life comparison with you and your dad. Are you like your dad, or an opposite? What was the relationship with your dad like? Were you closer to your mother? Wearing her pants could simply be another way of expressing that identification with her more so than your dad.

The above possible interpretation is a deeper confrontation {or would be if I am correct in my assumption} of your iner self. Sexuality is a force that has to be acknowledged {Freud} and admittely you admit the exploration of your sexuality. Your dreams on one level could be addressing the sexual exploration and also be confronting deeper unresolved psychological issues.

Of course the context in which this last part of the dream applies could change the whole assumption (that last part may be from another dream). But since you did add it to the dream post, there may be an unconscious willingness to do so that the conscious mind doesn't comtemplate or recognize. I think of it in the same way as waking from a dream with distinct feelings or impressions from the dream. My experience tells me such realizations are truthful abd should be given due consideration when interpreting such dreams.
{Example: I felt real anxiety when I awoke from the dream}
When the proper interpretation of the dream is finally determined, it will expose some real anxieties with the dreamer's life.

Let me know your thoughts on my post. Since you are very open about yourself {an extravert like myself most likley} we should be able to gain good insights to these dreams and what they are trying to expose. Your wilingness to share personal informtaion provides a good learning experience for all.

I like to think the MDS Dream Forum is a learning place for anyone who dares to explore the psyche. I doi appreciate your willingness to share and participate in the forum.

Observation: the good thing about cyberspace. You can be your true Self and no one ever knows the difference. By exploring you may even find that true Self

Gerard

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gerard,
i was pleased to find you had written back again, this is fun!
indeed, i am very different from my father.
without making a judgement about what is right and wrong, it is fair to say, that while he dwells more in the materialistic world, i am much more drawn to the spiritual.
regarding he t-shirt which is too big, to me that might indicate an immaturity on my part to be a father myself, taking responsibility.
i still feel more a boy than a man and am very much in the process of growing up.
i always was closer to my mum than my dad , a dynamic which has shifted though during the course of last year.
i am pretty sure that the last part of the dream is part of that dream.
i memorized another thing :

i have got tattoos like he (my father) does, but i know i did not get them to copy him, i got them independently.

in regards to what i wrote above this might mean, seeing the tattoos as a sign for maleness, that i have chosen a different way to become a man.

i would not call myself an extravert by the way , although i have learned to be open about myself, simply because i feel more at ease when i am.
i also think that i drift in and out of extravert/introvert rather than that being a static state.
ready for another dream?:
i am driving down the street, almost sliding off in to the sheer, another car does just that, i am running towards the scene of the accident, the car has been overturning a few times, chris (someone i know) comes hobbling and staggering, i help him, i give him a cushion and blanket, Donald Sutherland is in the car as well, everyone has survived the accident, including the baby, it was all the womans (mothers) fault,
now the car is a train, one stop before the destination people come to check our tickets, i dont have one and jump off the train, narrowly escaping people trying to stop me, inside the station now, i am buying a ticket, at first i think i did not get enough change back, then realise that actually i got more than i should have,
i am holding an unusual 2-£- coin in my hand, some guy wants to see it, when i show it to him, he tries to grab it, now we are both pulling at it, again people come to check i have got a ticket, "yes, and now leave me the fuck alone", i am now talking like steve( a guy i know from ireland, who i perceive to be very male, very "warrior"), but i am being found out, and say that actually i am not from ireland.

the guy who tried to grab my coin is following me, i give him beer, now in the supermarket, women kneeling on the floor, singing schillers "ode to joy".

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Chris,

I should have stuck with my original decision to address your last post the 'next' morning instead of doing so immediately after saying I would do just that. I had other things on my mind and clarity on the subject of the psyche wasn't 100%. I've made a few corrections of terminology and also have added other comments. Sorry for any confusion. I believe my corrections will make much more sense.

It is interesting that you consider yourself both introverted and extraverted. Some will scoff at such talk but I believe it has merit in many ways. Most gay men are gay because they are psychologically closer to their feminine side than they are their masculine. Very effeminate gay men probably should have been women. Physically they are male, psychologically they are female. The inner experiences available to a gay person often account for their better than most creative skills. Tennessee Williams, Rock Hudson, very masculine men but both gay.
Interior decorators seems to have many gay men involved in that line of business.

But it is not required you be gay to have such qualities. You can be straight, or bi, and fit this pattern. I believe such types would be more open of themselves and their sexuality, like yourself. Such types would be more likely to become bi-sexual. Doesn't mean they will but they would probably possess greater tendencies to explore their sexuality. You want find an introverted person willing
to explore any overt sexual desires.

This is where I believe earlier experiences in life influence our decisions later in life. These are the causation I spoke in my last post. Why are you, or why was I, in such a need for new sexual experiences, other than we have these physical desires. As in all things human, it is also psychological. The earliest development of a person's psyche is greatly influenced by environment, and the need and desire for nurturing. Both involve parents.

If we don't receive the proper love and nurturing as children, we often find ourselves looking for love, and nurturing, in all the wrong places as adults. Or we substitute that lack of nurturing by over eating, alcohol, drugs, or other vices.

The whole intent of Jung's Individuation Process is to create balance within the psyche. I've had people think I'm deaf because I claim to be a thinking person {extrovert} as well as an intuitive person {introvert}. I still possess many of my extravert aspects but do not crave or need people around me as I did when I was a younger man. What I was looking for back then, I now know what it was/is.
It has taken most of my 13+ years of self psychology {using Jung as the guide} to understand it. I prefer to be alone because I choose to be. I live in the country, closer to nature and no longer in need of attention. I can find that peace I seek, a better place to be creative, away from those 'other' things that were once a necessity in my life. Those controlling unconscious stimuli no longer hold me captive.

Note: I experienced many years of introverted behavior when I was a child. A hard early life, those experiences helped shape many of my actions later in life. Our earliest experiences shape us all to a great degree. My personal growth was severely stunted because of my childhood. I was a late bloomer. I have had an interest in psychology ever since I can remember but it took Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth to start me on my journey in exploring the psyche {at age 42}. It wasn't until I was in my late teens I was able to fully let my true extroverted self assume control of my personality. That was good and bad.

The Extrovert, Thinker
I am a contractor, 28+ years. I still work with my hands. I interact with people with skill {easy to do when the spirit is your guide-ethics matter}, able to instill trust and confidence through my personality. My 'learned' sensing is a bit different from the 'sensing' thought of in personality typing. It is partially learned {I worked in health codes enforcement all through the 70s and early}. Because of my many and constant experience with people and situations I learned to sense things I previously did nor recognize. Of course now I know I was really borrowing from my still hidden intuitive abilities. My learning experiences with people during those years {which also included a few serious and non-serious relationships} now supports a better developed intuitive Self {developed by intention as much as evolution}. If I had been a true introvert all my life I would have never had all those emotional experiences. My contracting business has benefited greatly because I am able to read others.

The Intuitive
I believe I do possess developed intuitive abilities but that can be judged by my continuing involvement at the Dream Forum interpreting dreams. Dream interpretation requires developed intuitive skills. Or as I like to frame it 'reading a dream'. Intuitiveness is an original feminine aspect {why women are naturally more intuitive than men}. Because of my years of self discovery {again with the guidance of Campbell and Jung} I believe I have tapped into that higher aspect of intuitiveness.

I am not unique. Possessing intuitiveness and having a good understanding of Jung's approach to dreams and psychology, I believe anyone cab access those higher aspects. Several of the Forum contributors have experienced advanced degrees of gnosis. That what happens when you become a dedicated 'Jungian'.

So what you said about possessing both aspects I see that as quite possible. These are opposites in personality terms. But when the psyche reaches
that plateau where there is true balance, then I believe gnosis is available for the asking. Some possess it naturally {what they do with it makes all the difference}. Others like myself have to discover and develop it.

I again apologize for using a couple of terms out of place in my original post. Recently I have experienced a greater degree of insight that when listened to is always correct. The downside is when I go against my original impression, there are consequences, or mistakes. I almost believe it to be unconscious {lol}. Perhaps a balancing mechanism from nature. I try not to force interpretations {or extended comments} when I am directed by inner voices not to do so. And I listen, most of the time.

I still intend to take a look at your most recent dream and provide my thoughts. There is a good possibility the first two dreams are addressing waking life conflicts, your sexuality, and also deeper issues perhaps from earlier life experiences. This dream doesn't mention gay or bi. It may tell more about the other aspects of your psyche and provide deeper insights to other issues in your life.

Gerard

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