Thank you so much, Jerry.

I don’t think I could possibly say any of what I’ve revealed so far without near certainty of the hunches I’ve been following. It’s been 11 years of feeling an inkling that something was wrong, but it’s only been after 2 years of psychotherapy and one year since the topic was broached, that I’ve actually begun to come to terms with this as a potential reality. I continue to battle fraudulent feelings because of the lack of memory, but I am told my symptomatology is sound, encompassing not only the nightmares/terrors, sleep-walking, etc, but other childhood experiences and repeated adult traumas. It is only now that I’ve felt strong enough to start talking. I've accepted that it seems to be the only way to get to the bottom of this before it gets to the bottom of me.

And so, right on cue, here come the babies... Last night I dreamt of 11 of them! Just like the mice under the sink and just like the number of years I’ve been on the trail of this! (Gosh, we take a long time to break through to ourselves, don’t we? )

11 Basement Babies
I’m a part of some kind of report that involves 4 or 5 of us. There are lots of boxes and heaps of items in the way, making it difficult to reach to each other. I was trying to help by getting something to the farthest away man. I go down to the basement to retrieve it and find naked children (babies, toddlers and young children) down a corridor all huddled down in foetal positions to keep warm it appears. They have bright responsive eyes, but they look so cold and helpless. I suddenly take on a masculine voice, which does not feel like my own, and I say gruffly to them: “Get some clothes on!” I then spot a large male body at the end of the corridor. He is also naked and has a couple of the children lying on his body. I am repulsed and say again sternly for the children to get dressed. None move. I run back upstairs and find a woman from the original group. She is about 65 or 70 and I say I have something pressing to tell her. She thinks it’s about one of the women working with us and is trying to give excuses for her when I finally break through to her. I grab hold of her hands and say what I’ve seen in the basement. I count the children in my mind and say there are 11 down there. As I say this I am feeling more and more horrified and know I need to get back down to the basement to save the children.

How helpful it’s been to receive your responses. Thank you again, Jerry.
Angela

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Angela,
Let me examine your response later today and provide a follow-up tomorrow morning. The social dragon summons me {work}. The numbers, especially the number 11, may be significant. I'll look the current posted dream and see what may be there.

Jerry

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Angela,
A brief response to your dream while I have a break before having more work to do later this morning.

The numbers 4 or 5, and 11 could be very relevant. As I stated in my earlier post it is around that age a child begins to have distinct memories. Any abnormal experiences {although a child would not understand sexual or severe psychological abuse as something bad they would know it is not a normal thing} would be stored within the unconscious, deeper in the psyche {heaps/layers of boxes see possible definition of boxes here} because the experiences where so early in life.

Your dream statement 'I go down to the basement to retrieve it and find naked children (babies, toddlers and young children)' could indicate experiences from those earlier stages of life. Cold and helpless would not be an uncommon description of a new born but a young child in that position would be. Where does this 'corridor lead to' in the application to real experiences? The large male 'naked' with a couple of children laying on his body.

Normally I would look a such language as purely symbolic, especially at your age. The repulsive response to the masculine voice that does not 'feel like your own' along with the other images is language that seems for literal than just symbolic.
Of course this is my knowing there are possibilities of very early life experiences that would make the symbols different from the norm.

I'll have to stop here. We can look at the older woman later. I do notice the numbers as listed as 65 or 70. 6+5+7+0=18=9. Then the number 11 again is mentioned. A psyche that is in emotional conflict {11} seeking balance and harmony {9}.

You need to get back to the basement to save the babies. In Jungian dream psyche the characters in a dream are representative of the dreamer. This is the task before you, rescuing that wounded child, literal of you as a child as well as symbolic of the 'inner child', the wounded psychological self.

Jerry

Note: It may not be a random thing that you stated '4 or 5' since when you add these numbers together you get 9. This is the number of wholeness, a 'collective' number that the psyche recognizes and distributes in various aspects during life. See my page on the
number nine at Secrets of Nine.

The number 11 when added together is two, symbolic of duality, conflict, between two parts of yourself. 1 vs 1, opposing opposites but sharing the same physical being. Something is in conflict psychologically if not physically.

And then you get to the naked babies. These could be both symbolic and literal, especially if there were emotional experiences as a toddler when the psyche is still relative young and developing, and where the emphasis would be on the literal {older adults, after the age of 35-40 tend to have mostly symbolic imagery in dreams}. This may very well be breaking through to actual early life experiences as a toddler {4 or 5 is past the infant stage but the experiences could have started even earlier}. As well as new realizations of those experiences.

I'll address th old woman later. I can't help but notice the numbers 65 or 70. 6+5+7+0=18. 1+8=9. Nine is the number for wholeness, a function of the dream as a therapeutic device. But there is the number 11. Conflict. You will need to get back to the basement to save these babies. In Jungian dream psyche unnamed persons are symbolic references to the dreamer. The babies would be the dreamer. What may need to be saved is that wounded child and although deep in the unconscious the wounds are real. What influences those wounds have had on your life, that is where the healing needs to take place.

Dreams do not speak in fraudulent language. You may have fraudulent memories but not the dream. The dream means exactly what is says. Determining the literal from the symbolic is the task at hand. The indication in this dream seems to be saying these experiences were real.

Jerry

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Jerry, many thanks again.

The number breakdown is really interesting. If the 11 is representing conflict, well, I can vouch that is certainly going on within. And if 9 represents wholeness, and both 4 or 5 and the 65 – 70 equal 9, then it must mean there is some kind of search for wholeness happening within my psyche too, which does provide a modicum of relief during this disturbing time.

I too think it is quite a task to determine the literal from the symbolic in dreams. I have seen most of my dreams as symbolic and have been amazed by what they have shown me over the years. But I keep finding myself in different territories now, with these odd voices for example. And the feeling component on waking is distinctly different too, often with much more intense and persistent feelings. I suppose it may be the case I will never have any information and therefore never know if the dreams are displaying literal components or not. But talking about them does help.

Thank you for creating this space and for your generosity of time – a testament to the power of the greater consciousness of mankind.

Angela

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Angela,
I also suggest for anyone past the age of 40 to look at dream symbols as symbolic. The literal possibilities would be about the actual experiences. The 'mouse in the bloodstream' would be symbolic in almost** instances. The 'running to the bathroom and ripped off my top' would be symbolic in its application to the dream message but could also be a reference to a literal experience {staying true to the concept that all dreams, and symbols, have at least two meanings}. Look at the dream as symbolic unless there are close loved ones involved {family, partners, very close people in your life}. Then they could be literal in their application but would do so in the context to the relationship to the dreamer {your dreams are about you and not them}.

**There is another application where a literal meaning may be involved. If there is a physical condition of the body that needs your attention then the 'mouse in the bloodstream' could represent that physical condition. The mouse may be something 'small' yet 'menacing' in the energy filed of your being {bloodstream}. It still is using symbolic language but is addressing a literal physical condition. The location of the symptoms, under my ribs on the right side, could be the actual location of the physical condition. Have you experienced conscious physical pain in those areas? It may be it is a physical condition not yet known consciously. The unconscious can know before it becomes conscious.
Having to 'coax it up' could apply to a physical need as well as a psychological one. The unbearable feelings also can fit with that application.

The whole dream does fit that pattern of possibilities. But I caution not to jump to conclusions unless you have sincere suspicions about such physical condition. If that is true it may be wise to see a physician. Dreams are a direct link to the unconscious mind and anything within the psyche can be known unconsciously before it is conscious. Just as with a stimulus from a recent waking experience, a sound, a picture, a person, that takes you back to a past emotional experience, so to the physical condition can take you to a physical condition that is not consciously known. That application is sort of a 'deja vu' type thing from a dream. A physical condition would fit with the dream's intent to inform the dreamer of a condition that is out of balance, just as it does psychologically. A therapeutic value I personally believe is a part of nature's mechanism, just as the immune system is with the body.

Jerry

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