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Re: Vice Presidents

Peggy,
I truly appreciate your follow up response. I am always interested in whether my interpretations have merit and it seems with your response it seems my analysis of the symbols were very much applicable. A good interpretation at best can only see along the perimeters of a dream with the exact details being only being discernible by the dreamer. Of course in most instances the information I have about the dreamer is very limited {often only the age, gender and location}. Since you have posted dreams previously and we have had a discussion of those results I did have more to go on with this dream. I am able to better able to use amplification of the dream with experience and that provides a greater possibility of understanding the dream message {Jung stressed the importance of amplification}. Although I feel I do have a good intuitive sense when it comes to dream interpretation it is Jung's theories and ideas that allow me to even consider taking on the task of interpreting a dream. And a willing and responsive person to work with such as yourself allows us to better understand not only how dreams function but get to the core of the dream message. I am the point to where I am convinced Jung got it right and the proof can be found in the dream posts here at the Dream Forum.

Given your response with details I am going to take another look at this last dream. If you can expand your comments on specific parts of the dream we may be able to get more from a deeper analysis. Also if you will comment on the emotions you experience with the 'fear of death' and how frequent they are that may help resolve questions to why they are so pervasive. How long have you had these fears? It may be the frequency of experiences you have had with people you know and love {as well as your pet} that are at the core of these emotions. If you wish to continue the dialog I am more than willing and happy to assist.

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: Vice Presidents

Jerry,

A quick response to the fear of the death question. I have been aware of it since 2009 when I returned to recovery after relapsing. And not my death, but Rozie's. He is the kindest person I have ever known, protective, supportive of my art, of ME. My previous relationships, including my biological family did not give me anything close to this kind of nurturance. When he and I talked this out this morning to help me uncover the true feeling, it's just thinking in the future and that produces fear, so one must remain in the moment. Appreciating him and all of our time together is the solution.

The feeling before going to sleep before the dream was more about the possible suffering people go through, like for chemo as my sponsor is, but in the light of day I realize she is choosing this last chemo treatment instead of hospice. She's an adult and I can't caretake people which is my "1st response". I am more curious about death and spirits than scared except with Rozie. You know, we want to die 15 minutes apart.

Some things I learned about Geo W.: he is 88yrs old, 1989-93 he was in office. I came here in 1988 for recovery. Also, Mondale came to the TV station I worked at when he was running with Carter for the 2nd time. Secret service was all over the place.

Peggy

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Re: Vice Presidents

Thanks Peggy. I will take another look at the dream tomorrow and response and see what I can come up with. The extra info about Bush and Mondale may be helpful. Such things may seem insignificant but dreams have a funny way of using events and experiences as metaphors.
Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: Vice Presidents

Peggy,
I am going to offer a few comments on your last post and later give another look at your dream and see if there is anything that stands out that may offer new insights to its meaning. I just finished my Wednesday workout and I am sitting at Starbucks across from the beach drinking coffee. Not the best place to give a lot of good focus to something so serious. The distractions, as they are, I can't complain about {it is sunny and about 75* outside}.
Isn't Wifi great?

I can empathize with the emotions about Rozie's health and your fear of losing him. Although I am single and have been for almost 20 years {last marriage was in '92, the last of 3 -shows just how much I needed Jungian analysis to get myself straight} I get these feelings of impeding lose of loved ones. My mother is in her early 80s and knowing she will not live forever, the thought of losing her is daunting. Being a pet owner figures into it also. Death of a love one is always traumatic. It is all a part of the mid-life thing and the later years. A transition that will either make you loony, whole or kill you.

As for the questions about death I turn to the many sages I have encountered over the past 20 years, particularly Campbell, Jung, Elaine Pagels and Marion Woodman. Of course it is campbell that articulates the best answers, and quotes. He stated in The Power of Myth with Bill Moyers in talking about the sorrows of life, "It's a wonderful, wonderful opera, except that it hurts.".
And I hauntingly remember his words {this was in the early years of studying 3-4 years, before I began to tackle the lot more difficult Jung} about the realities of life, which at the time bewildered me and did so form any years until I finally 'got it'.

From The Power of Myth:
"People ask me, "Do you have optimism about the world, about how terrible it is?" And I say, "Yes, it's great the way it is" ... I had the wonderful privilege of sitting face to face with [a Hindu guru] and the first thing he said to me was "Do you have a question?", cause the teacher always answers questions... I said, "Yes, I have a question." I said, " Since in Hindu thinking all the universe is divine, a manifestation of divinity itself, how can we say no to anything in the world? How can we say no to brutality to stupidity to vulgarity to thoughtlessness?" And he said, "For you and me, you must say yes."

It is about affirmations, and having a system that supports those affirmations. For me it has been the Jungian idea, that there is this physical body with its psychological nemises {emotions} that lives in a world of conflict and sorrow. But in Jung's theory, and I try to 'wholly' live by it, there is this mystical part, the spiritual/metaphysical aspect that has the invisible hands that do support you in times of need. Not contrived need/desires but those that we experience in the various stages of life that reveal discernable patterns we read about in myth {myths are 'collective' patterns of emotional behavior}. Campbell skillfully explains the hero journey, the 'actualization' of what Jung taught, in a way that we can understand and follow. It is left to the individual to discover their 'myth' and find 'within' themselves the the DISCIPLINE that allows them to survive the ordeals in life. This inward journey we hear about all the time is a psychological journey inward. Through myth we can find stories of those who have 'gone before us' and have experienced the trial that fit your psyche, my psyche and every other human psyche throughout history.

You may not consciously know it {or think about it} but you already know the first step in this reality. From your posts we have evidence you are indeed following the correct path. The post of Dec 3, 2012 - 8:44AM,
I am feeling better this morning as I got in touch with how limited I was thinking about mySelf, my Higher Power...

and from another post where you said you need to remember to 'live in the moment'.

These are affirmations and the system you have chosen to live by, the Individuation Process, will work as long a you do keep it all in perspective {in the moment and not the emotional mind} and let the soul be the guide. Campbell talked forcibly about how the system can lead one to wholeness and I and many others will attest to its power {perhaps the most famous being George Lucas}. We need only be strong and disciplined.

In closing let me once again quote Campbell in the discussion of death and the afterlife. These are words I feel is as honest an answer to knowing anything about what happens after death. It is from an old Sufi Islamic proverb, the mystical part of Islam.

"when the angel of death approaches it is horrific, when it reaches you it is bliss".

Intuitively I feel there is something so true about this quote. And I truly believe anything that has a strong intuitive feel is always correct.

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: Vice Presidents

Jerry,

Thank you for your kind & compassionate reply. It's all about the journey and that was what I got from the mirror dream with my doggy on a trail coming towards me. It answered something inside me- it ain't over, even after death. It hurts and it's important to experience that hurt. I've noticed that a lot of addictive behavior occurs surrounding incomplete grieving, be it drugs, food, sex, hoarding, gambling etc. Also Jung said we want to live and plan living even in the elderly. Cancer patients will go through as many treatments as allowed, while loved ones "wish" they could stop suffering. I keep observing this in others and in myself. Preventing hurt in others is not my job, I guess, nor within my power.

My spiritual practices get simpler & simpler. My prayer is "Please help me" or "Please help us" or someone's name. I ask to be guided. I try to keep an attitude of gratitude and this goes very deep. With my thoughts I "let go & let God" this has always been a powerful & effective affirmation for me. I surrender, absolutely let go, physically, mentally, emotionally by laying flat on my bed. Sitting in a chair is uncomfortable, thus distracting. I try to listen, intuitively. My art is as meditative as I can get it without trying to control it. Probably that is the hardest part. My sense of limitation. But I am aware of this now, from things you've said. So I am working towards being more confident with my art. This also correlates with a dream I had last week of Stevie Wonder & I playing the piano together. I asked him who he was, he said,"whatever you want to call me" We then "played" the piano and I stopped saying, "You play, I'm not good enough". I transposed this in the day to mean, I don't feel confident enough in my art. You mentioned unblossoming marigolds in a dream I had, which I honestly dismissed. But now I can see it, feel it.

My goal with my art at the moment is to express feelings & emotions that the viewer can feel. For me the process is so healing and makes me feel whole in terms of all the art disiplines I have learned. Dance, mime, and good drawing skills.

Today I choose to believe in God's love not my fears. And not avoiding feelings, but embracing them, sad, mad or glad. Thinking of what the police say a lot on COPS "Stop resisting, stop resisting."

Please let me know which is the best Marion Woodman book to read. The audio is not as appealing to me as the written word.

I feel you will do very well with the people at the churchs for you are very compassionate. Coming from the heart is so important to me in my daily life and I let go of anything or anyone that prevents that.

Peggy

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Re: Vice Presidents

Peggy,
I don't see anything in your last post that offers any further insights to the dream. I do get the impression that because you have never felt protected and supported as you do with Rozie, plus the fact you are at that age where lose is a usual thought, as well as all the people you know who are suffering, these factors likely play a major role in your fears. A primary purpose of dreams is to help resolve emotional conflicts. I take a position that goes a bit beyond what Jung expounded that dreams are naturally and 'intentionally' therapeutic. Much like the immune system is the body's defense against physical illness so too the dream a defense against emotional illness. The dream is trying to help the dreamer resolve emotional issues.

As for the inclusion of Bush and Mondale in the dream, your earlier experiences could very well have played into this. And because dreams do address issues from a day or two prior to the dream, recent news about Bush's illness may have been a stimulus for their inclusion as symbols.

Your remark about wanting to die 15 minutes apart from Rozie brought back memories I have of a close aunt and uncle who passed away within a day of each other. The uncle had been ill for some time and hospitalized but my aunt had no indications of illness, She died of a heart attack the day after he passed away.

You speak of your art. Jung believe heavily in using the creative aspects as a way of treating emotional conflicts as well as developing wholeness. Jung influenced the practice of art therapy with his respect for visual imagery and the profound psychological meaning he found inherent in artwork. Jungian art therapists may suggest art as a means to explore dreams and archetypal images in search of personal meaning.

Archetypal art therapy
A post-Jungian archetypal therapist would be less likely to translate an art image into a concept but would instead imaginatively explore the metaphors within an image. First named by James Hillman in 1970, archetypal therapy emphasizes staying with an image through imaginative exploration-the image includes the artwork, the client’s behavior in art making, and the therapist’s interactions. Archetypal psychology as represented n the work of Carl Jung, James Hillman, Mary Watkins, Patricia Berry and David Miller involves stepping away from the interpretation of symbols and archetypes toward the use of metaphor in understanding one’s imagery. “Listening” to the voice of the image through description and active imagination helps to deepen the qualities of the imagery and their meaning.

You may want to read about Jung's art therapy as a tool in your 'recovery' as well as the fears you have about death. Here is a link that will provide some insights Psyche & Muse: Creative Entanglements with the Science of the Soul.

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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