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Pierced my baby's foot

yes - this the part of my dream this morning that I couldn't remember , , ,

I pierced my child's foot: I remember holding the foot, and thinking this has to be done, and I know how to do it (in waking life I know the anatomy) and doing it while trying to remember and avoid the blood vessles that run there.
I remember doing it and piercing the skin and pushing the ? (something sharp) through from the sole to the top surface.
I remember she (my daughter) did not scream or cry.
It kept bleeding : so I held pressure on it , , ,but it kept bleeding,, and I remeber thinking , ,, it should be stopping
poor girl

** other dream I remember from the night
- me teaching medical / dental students; and realising how much they needed this teaching because their training was so deficient
- me going to / needing to clean an oven that I'd been cooking in : it was completely caked over , , like the whatever had been cooked had exploded, both inside the oven and outside. My father , whom I have never dreamed about - came over trying to lend a hand /help. But he had no idea of how to approach cleaning up the mess; I looked at the mess, started , then realised that it was too much for now, , and that I'd come back later


thanks , ,JC

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Re: Pierced my baby's foot

Justin,
I see the same pattern in this dream as in the loose teeth dream. Instead of loose teeth that need to be splinted, the drama in this dream is the need to pierce the foot. This language sounds very much like a need to pierce something within your unconscious. One is holding it in and the other is piercing what is being held in. Something that needs to be 'pierced', Something that is repressed?. Both are healing actions. Details.

The child is you {although there may be 'professional' experiences that are borrowed from actual contact with children/daughter}. The feet are your 'foundation', your support system, the principles you live by, and most importantly the foundations for your psyche. Those foundations start in the womb and evolve into who you are as an adult. You, as an adult need to 'pierce' something from your childhood. You know how to do it, at least unconsciously {the dream?}. But there emotional {blood} 'vessels' that need to be understood.

This dream involves one foot, a reference to one aspect of your being. Your professional life in adulthood may have turned out OK {on the surface}, one aspect of your being. But on the other 'foot' there are unresolved emotional issues from childhood that need to be 'pierced'. What was held in needs to be pierced. Having knowledge of the anatomy {associated thoughts - one application where Freudian psyche is useful} you are aware of these emotional issues {an ongoing thinking process}. But you need to 'remember' the emotional experiences from childhood. A piercing of what has been 'held in'.

This something you 'think' needs to be done. There are several possible applications to this 'thinking' aspect. One would be an unconscious action, a 'thinking' something has to be done, an ego action to protect its 'sovereignty' as decision maker for your psyche. Holding in {teeth}

Note: 'Thinking' is an external ego process intuition an inner process}. This 'thinking' may be addressing personality traits. Are you an extrovert? {Or an introvert where there is that a need to balance the opposite inner trait?}. My experience with such language would be pointing to your being an extrovert.

The skin covers what is underneath. The unconscious aspects. You need to pierce what is 'underneath' the surface. Pushing the ?. ? is the unknown unconscious aspects {could it be the dream intentionally was vague about this sharp instrument causing you to use the exclamation point????}. From the sole/unconscious soul to the conscious {top} surface.

The daughter inclusion has meaning. Do you have a sister? Not screaming/crying may suggest a lack of emotions. That could be from experiences that left you emotionless .

The bleeding is emotional energy that still flows from your past. The pressure could be holding those emotions in as well as the pressure to let them out. You need to put a stop to the negative emotional flow.

There does seem to be repressed emotions from childhood. Not only have they affected your confidence as an adult, there is a need to 'pierce' the repressed emotions from the early life experiences. The teeth dream has taken on new meaning {something Jung tells us that happens when analyzing other dreams and over time}.

Other Dream
The teaching is that of unconscious contents to conscious awareness. Your 'training' from childhood is deficient. Your medical training is influencing the dream.

The oven could have several applications. The womb is one, earliest life experiences {we know the fetus 'takes in' external vibrations while in the womb}. Here the oven has a better application as an emotional oven. What has been cooked, created, is now exploding. Both internally and externally.

This last part probably is addressing a part of the emotional issues from childhood. Your father, 'whom you never dream of' was incapable of helping, he did not know how to clean up the mess. This is probably saying something true about your father and your relationship with him. This would be a part of the issues from childhood {mine was a father who was NEVER there}. Without the proper guidance from the father there is an emotional mess in later life.

From Anthony Stevens' 'Jung: A Very Short Introduction'.

For a boy, the presence at this time of father is crucial allowing the boy to move from a self-concept based on mother identity to one based on identification with the father.

The emotions from those early life experiences were too 'emotional' to face so you put them away only to have to 'NOW" confront them. This may be repressed emotions or merely strong emotions you have put away because of a lack of a proper childhood {a usual thing in so many lives}. It is an emotional mess. You need to pierce what is beneath the skin, in the unconscious, and confront what ever is there.

If I can let me provide some info on my 'confrontation' with my past. Nothing 'traumatic' on a scale of outward physical abuse but a lot of psychological abuse, not being there as a father/guide.

My father left my mother and four children when I was six years old. All through my life he was never there. I tried to get close to him, up to my mid thirties in fact. But he was so self centered it never happened. I was pretty much rudderless through my twenties and thirties. Three failed marriages being one result of not having a proper relationship/fathering.

Then I discovered, at the age of 42, Campbell and Jung and began my 'journey or recovery'. It took the greater part of 15 years to resolve my 'father' issues but I did using Jung's Individuation Process of self analyzation. It was the psychological 'abuse' that were at the root of my failures as an adult. I see this patter all over the place, not only in men but also women {lack of a proper childhood psychologically}. It doesn't have to be traumatic events, merely experiences of not receiving proper love, acceptance and nourishment as a child from parents.

This may be your pattern. Or it could be deeper. Only you can discern what is there. Your dreams are trying to help you through this process of 'self realization'. A realization of the 'wounded inner child'. Bringing this to conscious knowledge would provide what it is that has left you lacking confidence in yourself. Piercing what is underneath is the task at hand. Not easy to do but essential if there is to be any hope of wholeness in your life. Dreams are a part of the 'process of becoming whole'.

What are your thoughts to these latest dreams?

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: Pierced my baby's foot

Hi Justin,
I was looking over your dream and wondering if you feel there is a possible connection to your real life child. It is true that your own childhood has a great impact on your adult situation but consider that your parenting and own personal happiness also affect your little ones into their adult life. Is there something about your career or own childhood that has programmed you to do something that could leave your child emotionally or spiritually perpetually bleeding? I feel like there could be a connection here to the child's future ability to stand on her own two feet or to go her own way. Try putting this together with the loose teeth part and see how it all fits together.

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Re: Pierced my baby's foot



hi Jerry,
I read your reply soon after you posted it, and have been absorbing it over these days (and living though the Christmas thing)

short reply is that it resonates on many levels; thank you - dreams can be like standing too close to the mirror, we cannot gain prespective

whoa - were to start , , , yes, I think that whatever is playing ou in my working life right now (over the past years, perhaps like your marriages (retrospectively I avoided marrigage and camoflouged my inner deficiencies with work. And I agree it links right back to childhood, and perhaps intra-uterine ( I have often wondered this and have tried to go back though some family records to track when my maternal grandmother died and when I was born, as my mother in a tone I cannot decipher (was it love or dedication or regret, or proof) that she, my mother, nursed her mother at home until her death. From what I can glean I as prob forming when my mother learned that her mother was dying, and then when I was born she had to 'nurse' both her child (me) and her mother. I have lived with the fear of death all my life, and the feeling that no one was there / is ther / will be there for me.
Now that I have a young child, I wonder who looked after me ? perhaps this is all conjecture and I should clarify the dates.
I have no recollection of ever being held, or touched - except once for a belting, and holding her hand in the final month of her life - it felt so strange to do so. She herself once described herself as a 'cold fish' - in the final months of her life, when she was cold yet it was full of double meaning and seemed to echo back in her memory (perhaps my father had told her years before).

Holding something together: another meaning = I felt responsible for holding my parents together, , , from my earliest memories, I could see they were unhappy and did all I could to hold their marriage together. As a little kid, this meant trying (all the time) to be good, , , enough said

That is one aspect - the other is the 'father issues' - and I think this is what is the issue is my life at present.
Physically present, as much as a hard working man of that time was - emotionally absent.
My time with him as spent sitting on the sofa wating tv when I should have been doing homework or sleeping:: or perhaps even talking. A tired man at the end of the day: I could feel his need to be with himself. I could sense how much he resented having to go to work - and that he felt that my mother had it easy. She for her part could never see how unhappy he was - it was only years after his death that she realised that he really didn't like going to work, and even then she had no emotional insight, no empahty was in her voice. I was so sad for him and angry at her that she had lived with him and lived from the product of his work and had no insight into him - what he had done. I was well into a better understanding at that stage, and she was too far from being able to gain any insight by that stage.
The one piece of advice I remember him imparting was 'don't trust women' - perhaps was 6 or 8 yrs old; I thought he must have just been angry with my mother , ,, but he repeated it some years later - and even as a child I could see the inconsistencies: my mother, my adopted sister , , ,
So some pretty significant lack of masculine guidance issues: I totally agree about the need for boys-young men to have male models , , ,


An emotional wasteland is one way I would describe my exposure to life's emotions. Dominated with the perspective that suffering brings one closer to God,,,

And yes = I do have a sister; an adopted sister : however that was only mentioned once.
I have no recollection of her coming home ( I would have been 2yrs 3 months old (I'd never worked that out.
I know there is a lot of baggage within me relating to this , , , however I just can't access is , , , I want to write = "I can't let it out" , ,, , ,
* all that I know is that everything seemed to go her way; my perception of it all is that she 'got it all' :the attention ? and I was left languishing, to fend for myself emotionally
I cannot imagine letting this go , , , it feels too big; too much to handle , , , !! perhaps this is it !!!

And perhaps all this links into Dreamers comment that of perpetuating something , , ,, my happiness or lack of , , , and how that affects my daughter.



Also - the 'thinking' aspect - yes I know the pathways now (the anatomy) and yet there seems a need to link to the emotions of the time

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Re: Pierced my baby's foot

hi Dreamer,
you'll see my much longer reply above - yet wanted to say that you are accurate in this interpretation - there is 'something' that I intuite has been passed on along the generations (hint in the dream is the piercing - this is so often done, "because it is something "we" do - something that (we think) defines us/ binds us , , , and hence holds "us' together) it feels like ?Stockholm syndrome (those held captive share a love of their captor, and cannot speak against him / her; in an "exclusive" - in way that only those who have been through it can understand)(as i write this it sounds a lot like what women who lhave been asused say , , ,,and they go back to it , , abuse becomes the only way they can express their emotions (love) , ,, something not so nice / not so good , ,, I've been working away at defining this for some years now, , ,,

thanks. Justin

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Re: Pierced my baby's foot

Justin,
I am writing this as I read your post {using Wordpad, my usual backback mode when making posts}.

I am wonedring. Could your fear of death have anything to do with your mother's nursing you and your grandmother at the same time? From studies of various sciences {psychology, socialogy, anthropology, etc} we have established that the early development of a child's brain takes in so much we never thought possible. What happens in the earliest life can become an influence for the rest of the life {even in the womb}. If there were 'vibes' received as a child it could very be there was an impression left on your psyche, your mother having to deal with agonizing btask of a dying mother. Her energies were being shared and just as your grandmother was consciously aware of you, you unconsciously could have been aware of her and your mother's experiences with her. Something to give thought to.

And then there is the lack of parent affection. That perhaps is the one thing so many of us share {whether it is from the mother, father or both}. Most all animals are dependent on the mother from the beginning. Image a small bird without parents to feed it. It woudl not last but a few days. Take away the affection that comes with the attention giving the infant and the animal is deprived of what nature intended. A source of comfort and assurance that is imprinted on the psyche, before and after. Jung does a marvelous job in providing insights to this relationship between mother and child and its importance throughout life. If there is a lack of love, nurturing and acceptance early in life you can bet your mortgage there will be consequences related to that later in life. Our dreams, as a therapuetic device, attempt to help sort out these emotional conflicts. Through the use of symbolic language {such language is used because it is from our primiative minds, the use of symbols being the earliest form of communication} the dreams is attempting to communicate to the dreamer exactly what is out of balance in the dreamer's emotional life. The non relationship with your mother would be a great influence on you as an adult. Even though we often find ways to overcome these 'deficiets' from early life, the experiences are imprinted on the psyche and often influence how the person acts and lives their life. I can relate to this in my own story of not having a father early in life and trying to find that love which was lacking all through my twenties and early thirties. The same would likely apply to you in your attempt to reconcile that lost love from earliest life. Then add this to the trying to hold your parents marriage together. And then the father issues. It is a wonder you have made it this far.

Do you have or have you had a problem trusting women?

Not being able to let it out, let go. That probably stems from earliest life experiences with your mother and father. They had no outlet for their emotions and once learned twice burned in your life. Consciously you can not get yourself to confront thee 'demons' but unconsciously, in your dreams, you are working overtime to do so. And will continue to do so until your resolve the emotional issues. the wonderous thing is although you can not bring yourself to consciously confront these issues, the unconscious dream's attempts are therapeutic. The resillance of the psyche and the human will to survive is a wonderous thing. but there has to be an outlet or sooner or later it all catches up with you.

And yes, your mental state of mind, whether you consciously display any unhappiness or not, affects your daughter. Just as your parents did with you. That makes it doubly important to find an avenue to resolve whatever the emotional issues that are in conflict. I myself was able to use Jung's Individuation Process to 'cast out' my demons. It took the better part of 15 years to realize the full scope of what was needed but the whole time I was working with my dream work and web design was therapeutic. It was one tool {the other being phsyical fitness} that kept me grounded and able to persevere. Not everyone will appreciate this method of therapy and others may need a professional to help. Either way it must be done or the fear of death may become a reality and sooner than necessarity.

What treatment have you tried or currently using to resolve these issues. Being so consciously aware of them as you are is an important step. Where do you think you need to go in your next step?

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: Pierced my baby's foot

hi Jerry,
apologies for the gap in reply - delayed yet not off my radar

your insights mirror my thoughts (that have taken me years to unravel) around these intertwined issues.
The key in your post for me is:where do I think my next step is?" ,, ,, , ,

turning to your reply:
- it seems (from what I have read; and there is very little solid stuff on it) that the emotional imprint / milieu that we bath in in utero and in our early years sets some pretty hard circuits , , , I found "Mothers Signature" a great help.
It is the water we swim in (swam in) and it is so hard to 'see'; or it is ok to appreciate and understand it at an intellectual level, yet getting to the emotions of it I have found very hard.

- perhaps it is the 'compensatory' mechanisms we use to ease our way in the world that both facilitate life and bring about the troubles. We lean on them like a crutch, without not realising it, and when it finally comes time to put it aside we find it is grafted onto us, become a part of us,

- not trusting women - yes; and then there was the all pervasive mother; now I would almost say invading mother. Preventing my inner world to remain 'sacred' or unto itself
And this had rolled into my inner world - although I am very intuitive (I know that now) my masculine side has continually outshone my feminine (dream image). So on my inner levels I don't trust my intuitive feminine resources , , , .
I think my father had the same patterns - he thought to survive he could not trust his intuition and had to rely on his masculine resources. I feel the same , , , realising that it is a balance, in my mind it feels all or none (all masculine or all feminine / logic or intuition:: how to blend.

All this has taken some years now,

Perhaps what I will do is create some inner gentleness, some inner space, some inner refuge where that part of me that went into hiding so long ago can feel safe, and heal itself. Perhaps this is now enough. Perhaps in my hunger to heal/ fuelled by my inner disquiet I have hounded myself too - given my psyche no time to rest either.
This feels like the hardest work,,,,

all the best
Justin

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Re: Pierced my baby's foot

I am sorry Justin. I was confusing you with another person. I'll provide my thoughts to your last post in another post. I will delete my last response.
Jerry

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Re: Pierced my baby's foot

Justin,
About Mother's Signature. Are you referring to the website of Dr. Bernard W. Bail? In the first paragraph there is this, "Nature by definition passes on the patterns of the mother into the child from the very moment of conception". That sounds more like the pattern of the archetypal mother, innate patterns we all are born with. Anthony Stevens touches on this in his book Jung: A Very Short Introduction.

But those are innate traits. The experiences in the womb would be separate issues. Inherent patterns from the mother while in the womb and the innate mother archetype would be different. The innate would be a collective unconscious aspect while the inherent experience in the womb would be personal. The child develops through the mother's body, shares what you takes in physically and psychologically. Psychological stress could be passed on to the child in the womb. Those experiences would then be re-inforced after birth where there is a waking experience by the child of the interaction between your mother and her mother. The end of life experience there could lay the foundations for your fears of death.

I am currently listening to Marion Woodman's audio CD 'The Crown of Age. She tackles this fear of death issue in this program. You may want to purchase it, not only for her insights on the fear of dying but also so many other aspects of the psyche. Here is a statement from the CD that would likely apply to your life:

She questions, for instance, for those of us who have not had enriching maternal care in our early lives: "Without a positive mother, how can we recognize ourselves?"

W have two issues to do with your mother. The issue of being afraid of death as well as a lack of a positive mother.
{In my early life there was the lack of a positive father which manifested into destruction actions when I was in my 20s}.

"So on my inner levels I don't trust my intuitive feminine resources".
The lack of the positive mother could answer that issue. Especially if you are naturally intuitive. Not to be able to utilize a 'higher' quality could be a barrier to relationships with the feminine/women. Then there is the possible double 'whammy' if your father passed along his issue with the same trait. If there is an imbalance between the psyche father/mother aspects, and there does seem to be that in your case, an over reliance on the masculine as a survival tool would seem natural. The archaic masculine takes control which could lead to a life out of control due to an imbalance of the yin and yang.

You have done a lot already to try and resolve these inner issues. And there is more to be done. What I can tell you from personal experience is it took me 20 years to resolve my issues of not having a 'positive' father. But through self analyzation through Jung's Individuation Process I was able to reconcile that lack of a positive father and become whole. It was not until a few years ago I finally resolved the issue to the point it no longer controlled me. You have already identified a lot of what is at the core of your inner conflicts. Now you must continue to examine the possibilities to reconciling them. Personal counseling with a trained professional is one path. But you can do it alone if you give enough time and resources to it. I promote Jung's method because it worked for me. I especially gave a lot of attention to Marion Woodman since she has worked all her life on additions and issues you and I have had in our lives. Identifying the issues is the first major step. Working to reconcile them is the continuing path of a life time. But I believe if you do work to gain wholeness as you are doing there will be a resolution. A tendency to 'hound' oneself can complicate matters but in time you will resolve that issue also. Woodman states in the mentioned CD that it is often a matter of time, letting yourself naturally evolve to find the answers. It is a part of the adventure. Unfortunately it hurts a lot.

“It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.”
― Joseph Campbell

Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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Re: Pierced my baby's foot

hi Jerry,
my apologies for such a delayed response - I've been digesting (and hard to find time to settle to do this kind of work).

I heeded your link to Marion Woodman, and as I was browsing there saw a title by Clarisa Pinkola Estes - Warming the Stone Child. The title really caught my eye; I audio downloaded it and it 'spoke volumes'.
Keypoints were the 'looking for love' was actually looking for guidance (lack of parental guidance / appropriate parental guidance).
That led me to more of here work - Mother Night (Learning to See in the Dark) - and I am into that.

I have aslo glimpsed into Marion Woodman's work, The Crown of Age; and will be back to her as soon as I can.

This has plunged me back into Jungian thought - truth is it does speak to me and I can understand it. These are great 'thinkers' and explainers of the psyche.

This morning C P Estes (above) mentioned mirror neurones - then I re-read your posts above (and my reference to the Mothers Signature). This could well explain how I (we) have picked up the neural patterning of my mother (her grief and sadness; feelings so often with me).

Understanding is one thing; setting new pathways is another.

all the best, Justin

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Re: Pierced my baby's foot

Justin,
I will provide a response to your post and your other posted dreams later today or in the morning. there was an electric power failure this morning which limits my time to reply to posts.

I am glad my link led to something constructive. I am not that familiar with Estes' book but the title alone speaks volumes {Warming the Stone Child}. Estes must come from the same background as does Woodman gauging by the title. I find that female authors, especially Jungian, are more apt to offer better advise than males. But I am a bit prejudice toward the feminine psyche, it being the powering aspect of my psyche that allows me to see into dreams as well as vital aspects of my own personal journey. Having grown up living with my mother and 3 sisters it could be natural I guess that the feminine is so strong within me. Add to that Jung's focus on the power of the innate feminine psyche, the pattern becomes clear.


Jerry The God Within You A Prayer For You




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