Dear Jerry,

Thanks for the insightful response. I do agree to most of the points you mentioned in your last post, and the questions you asked do hold an important relevant significance for me.

I am giving my feedback on certain points you mentioned:

1. “I go back to your response to my question about the relationship with your mother as a child.
"My relationship with my mother was not so good. I mean I loved her like my mother, but she was more like a tyrant." And especially your comment '(or possessiveness)'.
You can take the real life woman and find differences. But what are the similarities? Are they strong enough to the experiences with your mother in childhood they could evolved from those years? Your mother is a different person today than she was when you were a child. How does that affect your overall opinion of her? Is she still possessive? Was the woman possessive? The relationship with the woman is a later life experience and it went terribly wrong. Look at the reasons you entered into the relationship.”

- Overall I think my mother was not a classic text book definition of a mother, especially when I was a child. She’s become more “motherly” now – when I have become an adult.

Coming to this woman, yes she was indeed quite possessive. Especially towards the end, when I was leaving the company. And prior to that, she didn’t like me mixing, getting close or casually talking to other female coworkers at the workplace while I was working there. I think maybe because in some way she considered me to be her “support system”, because no one would talk and listen to her the way I would. I think her possessiveness was because she didn’t want to lose me to another woman, even though we were just friends, she wanted to isolate me from others so that she could feel “secure” knowing that she kept me solely for herself. This is what I realized much later when I thought deeply about her. She probably thought I would neglect her if I would befriend any other woman in the workplace, and the ones with whom I used to talk to apart from her, were the ones she used to specifically dislike/badmouth about (And ironically, she also knew that I was in a relationship too, at the same time. I didn’t belong to her; neither did she belong to me. So why the possessiveness?).

But I think this possessiveness from older women is another issue that I have been facing right from when I was a child till the present, right from my relationship with my mother. It’s a kind of a déjà vu, every relationship (whether platonic/romantic) that I have had with older women has the elements of possessiveness/suspicious mindedness/control in it coming from the older woman, though the degree may vary from less to great, but these elements are ALWAYS present in some way or the other in such relationships. Not that I try to find these elements/faults on purpose within these relationships with the older women. I always get mothered in some ways (I’d rather use the word smothered, that’d be the right word) and controlled by older women. And I find it unbearable to deal with their suspicious mindedness about me. My mother was a very possessive/suspicious minded/controlling woman when I was a child till my early youth. She didn’t like any girls calling me/or talking to me even when I was at university. It’s like in the past 10 years that only after I went abroad to live away from her, that I began to see the change in her personality. She’s become quieter, milder, and less controlling/possessive (probably because now she knows that I could take care of myself). But yes the suspicion mindedness does remain in her.

I think the reason(s) why I could have befriended this woman was because she seemed to be in need of emotional nurturing/support (even though no one could guess it just by looking at her; but my intuition or “feelers” felt it) in spite of her “tough babe” personality. It seemed like she projected a tough exterior while she was hollow and weak inside. And I was not wrong about it – because later after we became friends, there were often times when she used to be helpless and emotionally vulnerable as a child, and she used to draw ONLY upon me for support. I admit I kind of enjoyed “mothering/fathering” her, taking care of her emotionally, even though she was much older than me, indeed it was wrong on my part in trying to act like her “savior”. At that time, I think I was her only true friend at work. All the other men just looked at her as a piece of flesh for their enjoyment. And she was very close to her mother; I mean the similarity between her and me, was that her mother was also a very controlling woman. (I didn’t know this at first but later she revealed this to me). Maybe I “nurtured” her as a friend, because I felt she needed “nourishment” like how I needed. Or maybe I unconsciously expected that later I would receive “nourishment” (as you said) in return – but this could apply to any relationship in my life, not only the one with her. I think this unconscious need to nurture and be nurtured in return could be a problem for me, because I could have been not emotionally nurtured sufficiently as a child? Is this what you were hinting at?



2. “The nourishment is a substitute you seek as an adult that you never received in early childhood development. Only you can know if you have an emotional dependency on someone. Now that the relationship has improved with your mother is there a dependency on her?
Are you in a relationship with a woman? What is your attitude in general toward women? It could be because of the early life negative experiences with your mother there is an influence from that.”

- I can’t say that there is a complete emotional dependency on my mother even though my relationship has improved with her now. I think there, still exists a certain “fear” to share myself emotionally completely with her even now. I wouldn’t know whether she would approve my choices in general (the things I like, the woman I would want to marry, the things I want to do), that’s why I don’t share everything with her even now that we have a better relationship today. Not that I would not do what I want – I am an adult and can take my decisions today, but somehow I would be much happier if I know if she’d approve of my choices as well. But overall I prefer her company, more than my father’s today (in my childhood till early youth, it was the opposite; I was more close to my father at that time).

I am not in a relationship with a woman now (it’s been almost 3-4 years since my last relationship ended). It took me 6 months to heal emotionally after my last previous relationship. It was then at the same time that I found out about this lady’s hand to cause my breakup. So I was even more shocked and upset which didn’t make me want to pursue women for some time; instead I turned my mind towards my career, buried myself in my work. Today I do have a lot of female friends (most of them I met them through my work), but all of them are platonic. My attitude in general towards women: I do get approached by women (usually older women), but most of the time I am not interested (as I mentioned in my last post, I have developed unconsciously an ideal woman in my mind – she must be like this, like that, etc etc so the woman I want must have those “ideal qualities”). But I think a woman (romantically speaking), even if she might occupy an insignificant role in my life overall, still would be a necessary part in my life – though not in the present time, as I focus more on my career and creating wealth in the present time.




3. “Humiliation is humiliation. It doesn't have to be public. These are experiences and influences in early life, often before an ego is formed and where being punished has nothing to do with where it is done. It is what is experienced that sticks in your mind and stays there. The more you describe these early life experiences with your mother the worse it makes her out to be. The other woman may not be exactly like your mother but similar experiences may be. Humiliation seems to be a word that you use a lot.”

- I agree to that.




4. “His liking the woman may be a reason he is in the dream. If you examine the three way relationship more thoroughly you may discover something there.”

- I think I hinted about it in the previous post. I think he only wanted to use my friendship with her, to gain access to her. (Fake friends)




5. “If the attitudes from the past have altered how you act today then they have influenced who you are. It is what you experienced that needs to be understand and how that plays out. Humiliation. You avoid it. Could that be why you only surround yourself with younger women? Older women {your mother} tend to dominate you. This difference seems to be rooted in something. can you explain that {to yourself}?”

- True. I agree completely on this. Older women tend to dominate/smother me. I hate that. If I’d probably allow a woman to dominate me, that place I’d probably reserve for my mother. But because she’s my mother. I can’t give that right to anyone else. I hate to be controlled/manipulated/ treated like a boy by older women. Younger women are totally different. Easier to understand/easier to love.




6. “The dress suit is apart of your required apparel. It makes you feel 'powerful' and confident. Are those issues you have trouble with? Especially with older women? Putting these separate things together is what needs to be done.
A problem with older women. Feeling confident and powerful in a suit. Liking younger women because they are easier to understand. A lot of men could identify with these attitudes. But there is always a deeper reason for their attitudes also.”

- Yes I did have a problem with confidence, especially after my breakup. It’s like I began to like this apparel only more so after the end of my last relationship. I liked the feeling of being “empowered” by this apparel. I felt like my confidence coming back, and it did. I regained my focus, my drive. And indeed, women (especially older women) did take me seriously after this. Yeah, I think the correlation you mentioned does apply here.



7. “I do believe a lot of it goes back to childhood and the relationship with your mother. Not just because the dream starts with that {which for me is great evidence} but from what you have stated in your response. There is/was a hate/love relationship with your mother. As a child, a time before you knew the difference, there was a 'hate' relationship because of how she treated you. Whether you realize it that stays with you and influences you. Now she has changed and you love her {naturally, as a mother we all do}. But how has all this played out in who you have become and how you look at the world. you have issues with older women {your mother when you were a child} and shun them.”

-Probably true. The love/hate relationship is the way I could describe the relationships I had with older women. That could be another reason I seek to shun them. But more than my mother, I think it’s my experience with that woman which could be the prime reason for that approach.




8. “You feel much more comfortable with younger women {how young?-you are 32}.”
- True. Women closer to my age and below (the oldest woman in my circle is 30 and the rest are all below, in their early to late 20’s).




9. “Is it because you know younger women will less likely to humiliate you?”

- True. But not only that. It’s also the deviousness/deception/manipulation part. This has nothing to do with my experience with my mother; this has to do specifically with the experiences with that woman. I mentioned in my last post. Whenever I meet an older woman, that episode (my experience with that woman) gets involuntarily replayed in my mind, and a flight signal pops up unconsciously (I feel uncomfortable, nauseated, I feel like leaving urgently, but I never show it as I usually control this response), even if the woman with whom I am interacting , may be a good person. I feel like I just can’t TRUST her, I am setting myself up for deception/control/manipulation eventually. I also feel older women are more likely to deceive/manipulate/control as compared to younger women because they are more experienced. And these “conclusions” I have arrived to, based on my experience with that woman, who was at one time very close to me as a friend for a prolonged period of time. If you wonder as to why my experience with that woman occupies so much importance in my life, it could be also that I was never away from my parents ever since as a child. I only met this woman when I was abroad for work, and that was the first time I was away from my parents’ protective shell. I connected with her deeply as a friend, even though I later had a girlfriend after I befriended this woman. I don’t want to sound like I am whipping a dead horse here, but this experience will, and has stayed in my mind – more so because I have NEVER forgiven her even now.



10. “If this is true the relationship with your mother becomes an issue does it not?”

- On the “humiliation”, control part, then it could be. But not in the present, that was in the past. As she doesn’t “humiliate” me or control me today so I don’t think it should be an issue in the present. If she continued to “humiliate” or control me, then I think then that would be an issue which needed to be addressed in the present. She’s not the same person as she was when I was a child. I can’t think of much to do so as to change her now, because she has already changed to become a more docile person.




11. “Only you can decide what is true and what is not. If it is a problem that causes you to do great harm to other people, or an issue that causes you to be unhappy, then clinical therapy may be an option. But if it is an issue of less consequences where you can survive without harm to others or yourself then live life as you do. Go on, live your life it is a good life.”

- I don’t think I’d harm any person, because I have not harmed any person in real life till now. I am a normal person with normal friends. If there is one person I could or might possibly harm, then I’d guess that person to be myself. Because I think the past experiences (especially with that woman) have damaged my psyche to alter my attitudes in the present (especially towards women), and have left a feeling of being emotionally drained (it was the most emotionally draining friendship I ever had with a woman). I consciously seek only connections with women closer to my age and younger.




12. “But there is a caveat to that bliss. If you have unresolved emotional issues that cause you to focus on the ego you can not truly live from the soul. You have to be consciously working to resolve those issues. That is what dreams do. They 'naturally' try to help the dreamer understand what is out of balance emotionally so it can be brought back into balance. When that task is undertaken the the true self opens up. Ego is no longer dominate, you live life on a higher level.”

- True. I get your point. I think indeed my ego is probably fragile, or has been damaged quite a lot in the past. But how to live from the soul, when the ego needs to be healed first? I think everyone needs to have a healthy ego. It is the core of the individuality of a person. If it’s not healed, then the individual will not be healed. How to heal the ego?

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Amshaw,
I will address your total response tomorrow. I think we have discovered a lot in our conversation. I like to think if I get the dreamer to start thinking these things my job is mostly complete. Once that process is started the dreamer, if they serious about true self discovery, will take it from there. I've had many people do just that and over time stop by to post a dream. But they have discovered for themselves the answer they seek are within their own psyche. The inward journey is psychological and no one knows their own psychology better than themselves.
But it is amazing how much dreams do reveal.

As for the ego. I agree, a healthy is essential. But the ego that we develop as we grow and age is so imprisoned to society that we do not know who we really are. And if we don't know that society will rule our lives to the end. We never will discover our greatest assets, those talents we possess that give meaning to life. For that to happen there has to be a death and resurrection of the ego {Jesus on the cross motif}. In reality the ego must be thoroughly annihilated and then reborn. This is a psychological death and rebirth. If those things that unconsciously control the ego life are not completely disarmed they can resurface into something just as bad. We substitute what we lack in emotional nourishment with something else. Food, sex, drugs, alcohol. Those tendencies never completely leave us. we must find a way to control them instead of them controlling our waking actions. of course the first thing is to discover what it is that is in control. That can be a long and involved and often needs assistance. I was able to do it on my onw using Jung's Individuation Process. But Jungian 'thought' is a natural fit with my psyche. I have always been interested in psychology. It wasn't until I was 42 I began to seek out my true self. Now I am living it, working with dreams and designing my websites.

Jung discovered we all possessed a spiritual aspect. Less to do with religion that with a spiritual being not indebted to the ego and meant to serve others. And within the framework of nature. Often that service is from the muse. Or in my case helping others understand their dreams so they can discover their true and higher Self. Discovering ones 'bliss', the thing that gives meaning to the individual life. When you follow your bliss doors will open where there were none. That has happened time and time again on my journey. It is amazing but there are so many like myself who follow this path {see the link to 'bliss' for the reason why}. Natural laws have a lot to do with it. But being your true self, the whole self, the greater Self. that is where the ego must be to be truly healthy.

Jerry

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Dear Jerry,

Thanks for your reply. I do agree to the points you mentioned about the ego in your reply.

However, I await your total response to my previous reply.

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Amshaw,
Exactly how exactly the relationship with the woman fits besides the humiliation would require knowing a lot more about you and your mother. Not your mother today but when you were a child between the ages 1-10. The possessiveness about the woman and why she felt the need may also have associations to your mother when you were a child. Perhaps the tyrant mother included aspects of possessiveness. I dare say your mother had a need to control, most 'tyrants' do. As a child your psyche would take in all stimuli from experiences and store it away. You would have not understood these actions by your mother but your psyche would take notice. Those early experiences and influences would be the foundations of who you would become as an adult. But again to completely understand and associations would require a more thorough examination. That type of investigation is what I do as a service locally, with people in the area I live.

To the reasons why you took up with the woman. She had a tough exterior but was weak inside. Could that describe your mother? Later on the two of you became friends. That has repeated itself with your mother today. You became the mother you never had. You were saving her but unconsciously you were wanting to save your mother. The woman was a substitute. Whatever is missing from childhood finds a substitute in adulthood. It can manifest itself in many different ways {my lack of a father relationship was in many female relationships, much as he did instead of being the father he should of been}. I think you got it right when you stated, "Maybe I “nurtured” her as a friend, because I felt she needed “nourishment” like how I needed". You were still looking {and expecting} nourishment in return. "I think this unconscious need to nurture and be nurtured in return could be a problem for me, because I could have been not emotionally nurtured sufficiently as a child?"
The dream starts out talking about your childhood from the years of 1-10. Again, when I see this in a dream it is invariably a statement of those early childhood years.

We need to differentiate your childhood years and your adult life in relationship with your mother. She has changed, and evolved, and you have evolved. You are an adult as you state and how to react to the relationship would be complicated at best. With all the emotions within you from childhood, how the rest of your life, hers, has evolved would greatly determine the relationship today. Its the relationship with other women the childhood experiences would have an affect. You prefer younger woman because of older woman want to dominate. You do not want another mother but 'need' to be the mother. There has probably been an acceptance of your mother in the present because of you natural maturity. I know I out grew the need for repeated relationships after the age of 40.

Not wanting to be in a relationship after the experience with the 'woman' is understandable. That relationship has also shaped your psyche, perhaps added another dimension. Older women have always been a problem, starting in childhood right on into adulthood. Instead of female relationships you have substituted work. That is a common thing for a person to do.
{after three failed marriages I haven't been in a serious relationship in 30 years. But I, like you, do have a relationship. It is my dream work and design my websites. I call these my mistress}.

Confidence is often determine by early life experiences. I am a natural extrovert but lived a very shy introverted first 18 years in my life. No confidence in myself. We have to find something to empower ourselves. For me it was sex {even after I began to find my confidence}. You turn to your work and seeking wealth. I turned to sex and had three failed marriages looking for the love I never received from my father {that is a common mythological as well as psychological motif-the son looking for the father-think Star Wars, Luke looking for his father}.
By the way. Where was your father when you were a child? That invariably enters into the equation.

The humiliation is a product from the relationship with your mother, in the past. You psyche was formed during those early years. Your relationship with her today has changed but the influences from childhood remain. That is what your dreams are trying to help you to resolve. The therapeutic value of dreams supplied by nature.

As for the harm, it would emotional harm. Being aware of these early life influences and the unconscious control they can have will only help you to be a better person {if taken seriously}. Hopefully time will heal the wounds from early life. If you dare it might be a good thing to talk those experiences out with your mother. Until those issues are resolved, and that could be hard to do without confronting her, they will be a part of who you are. But the psyche is strong and the damage may mostly be 'naturally' resolved. Perhaps the worst it could do is prevent you from having a future relationship with another woman. If you get to that point to can look back at what we have discussed and have an idea why that is so.

A healthy ego is one that has undergone a death and resurrection. It is a psychological task and not literal. There must be a transformation and that can only be achieved by resolving those inner conflicts {why it is psychological}. I began my journey 20 years ago when I discovered Campbell and Jung. In most ways I am a totally different person. The one time sports junkie/couch potato, obsessed with looking for love in all the wrong places', has changed into someone who has a focus on growth, has developed principles {personal and spiritual} to live by, and has found the bliss that gives real meaning to live. Material wealth is fleeting. Internal wealth is forever. I don't have the first but do the former and it has transformed my life for the better, there is no doubt.

Not that I condemn any wealth you have accumulated. As long as it isn't off the back of others. There has to be a spiritual element because the soul is not physical, it is a metaphysical property. Jung discovered this spiritual aspect and all of those patients who discovered it found a healing for whatever it was that was in conflict. I am a religious person, religion is for lesser minds and those who need to follow. But I believe very much in a spiritual soul and living life from that. Karma, cause and affect, in accord with nature, WWJD, that type of spirituality.

From where we began I believe we have come a long way in discovering much about your conflicts. This the first step. Whether you wish to continue is up to you. You can live your life as it is, do nothing ad it may turn out to be a good life. But when you begin feel that void within? That is the soul calling seeking expression of the true self. The true self is not encumbered by emotional conflicts. The true self is free of those things and has begun or has already discovered a 'bliss' in life. Material wealth if used for the good of others could be a bliss factor. Bill Gates does a good job of sharing his wealth. But more often it is associated with the muse, creativity and always spiritual.

Jerry

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